A new era in Turkey-UK Defense collaborations

[dBSPL]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1512474476214210562

https://twitter.com/x/status/1512474484535611392

The UK has lifted the restrictions it has imposed on Turkey for the defense industry. The process will accelerate in MMU and Aircraft carrier.

How the process will work:

MMU and next-gen Engine

️>MMU's primary engine will be produced in Turkey by TAEC (51% Kale-%49 RollsRoyce joint venture).

>The serial production of the engine will be carried out at TEI (51% TAI)
(The shares of TRMotor, the other participant of the project, were also transferred to TAI)

>Alp Aviation and Kale, which are among the important suppliers of aviation giants on an international scale, will also be involved in the manufacturing process.

>TAEC will undertake the design and certification works

>The first 3 prototypes of the MMU will have 6 pre-supplied US F-110 engines

>MMU will leave the hangar in 2023 with the running engines. The first flight will take place in 2025

AIRCRAFT CARRIER

>Turkey made a request to the UK to buy a new HMS Queen Elizabeth-class aircraft carrier (which may mean HMS Prince of Wales).

>Instead, the British offered to support the design and construction of an aircraft carrier to be built in Turkey.

(Also, Turkey were made a request for HMS Ocean a few years ago for accelerating air-land-navy joint task force training on LHD ships, but this transfer was not realized due to the urgent need of Brazil.)

***

So, BAE systems and RR have become the main solution partners of the Turkish aviation industry for the upcoming period.

In addition to this, BAE systems (as well as Navantia) will be the solution partner for large platform ships such as LHD and Aircraft carrier, with consultation and design support. We can say that German shipbuilding's industrial role in the Turkish navy ended, due to Germany's constant problem of export restrictions, delaying and political leverage efforts. Likewise, the period of dependency on the USA aviation giants is also coming to an end.

The new era will proceed in the form of purely domestic system production, in cooperation with countries that have not hesitate to show solidarity, which is the requirement of alliance relationship.

 

[dBSPL]

With these developments, we can say that two channels have begun to emerge in the Turkish aviation programs.

The main channel will focus on systems of more strategic scale such as AEW-C, MPA, SOJ, advanced trainer jet and Next Gen Fighter jet under the leadership of TAI and will continue western cooperation.

The alternative channel, on the other hand, is the structure that Baykar draws attention in it, which develops alternative collaborations with countries such as Ukraine and focus more on innovative and unmanned systems in the battlefield.

 

[waz]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1512474476214210562

https://twitter.com/x/status/1512474484535611392

The UK has lifted the restrictions it has imposed on Turkey for the defense industry. The process will accelerate in MMU and Aircraft carrier.

How the process will work:

MMU and next-gen Engine

️>MMU's primary engine will be produced in Turkey by TAEC (51% Kale-%49 RollsRoyce joint venture).

>The serial production of the engine will be carried out at TEI (51% TAI)
(The shares of TRMotor, the other participant of the project, were also transferred to TAI)

>Alp Aviation and Kale, which are among the important suppliers of aviation giants on an international scale, will also be involved in the manufacturing process.

>TAEC will undertake the design and certification works

>The first 3 prototypes of the MMU will have 6 pre-supplied US F-110 engines

>MMU will leave the hangar in 2023 with the running engines. The first flight will take place in 2025

AIRCRAFT CARRIER

>Turkey made a request to the UK to buy a new HMS Queen Elizabeth-class aircraft carrier (which may mean HMS Prince of Wales).

>Instead, the British offered to support the design and construction of an aircraft carrier to be built in Turkey.

(Also, Turkey were made a request for HMS Ocean a few years ago for accelerating air-land-navy joint task force training on LHD ships, but this transfer was not realized due to the urgent need of Brazil.)

***

So, BAE systems and Roll Royce have become the main solution partners of the Turkish aviation industry for the upcoming period.

In addition to this, BAE systems (as well as Navantia) will be the solution partner for large platform ships such as LHD and Aircraft carrier, with consultation and design support. We can say that German shipbuilding's industrial role in the Turkish navy ended, due to Germany's constant problem of export restrictions, delaying and political leverage efforts. Likewise, the period of dependency on the USA aviation giants is also coming to an end.

The new era will proceed in the form of purely domestic system production, in cooperation with countries that have not hesitate to show solidarity, which is the requirement of alliance relationship.

Excellent an amazing partner which will benefit Turkey greatly.
So what's on the cards, quick summary?
Engine for Turkey's stealth fighter.
An aircraft carrier for Turkey.

 

[dBSPL]

The Turkish Navy Delegation visited the HMS Queen Elizabeth aircraft carrier of the British Navy and made inspections on the ship.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1512325460465758212

 

[Foinikas]

Crimean War II?

 

[TNT]

Can Turkey seriously trust the UK? What stops them from backing off at a critical stage and making a political excuse?

 

[dBSPL]

Can Turkey seriously trust the UK? What stops them from backing off at a critical stage and making a political excuse?

Previously, for example, in business models with the USA, everything was dependent on US license permissions and the participation of the Turkish industry in these platforms was limited within this framework. But here, the ownership of the platforms belongs to the SSB, and production and development activities will be carried out through Turkish companies.

What if England tries to take the opposite step tomorrow? For example, TEAC's (51% Turkish) business share could be transfer to TR Motor (Tai); or the company becomes completely nationalized. Maybe it will delay the project for a few years, but it will not prevent it from being produced, and the UK loses all of the work in existing projects, just for the limited delay it creates, is it worth? Do not underestimate Turkey's experience in this matter. It was about this that the negotiations with Rolls Royce lasted exactly 4 years.

The UK collaboration includes development support for the next generation engine and, if the negotiations are successful, a consultation and design support for the aircraft carrier in the format of the SEDEF-Navantia partnership at TCG Anadolu.

The productions in question will be made in Turkey. Industrial rights will belong to Turkey. Logistics infrastructure will be provided by Turkish defense companies. National solutions will be used on the basis of subsystems.

If considering Turkey's military/aviation R&D capacity and economic size: the strategy based on developing state-of-the-art solutions simultaneously in hundreds of sub-working areas and bringing them together on platforms for the first time such as aircraft carrier and combat jets, is a very risky. The biggest of these risks will be the weakening of the deterrence of the Turkish armed forces due to delayed projects. Existing regional risk factors prevent Turkey from taking this risk. Instead, the model based on long-term planning by using the existing industry capabilities and getting consultancy on the missing points so that the solution of these problems does not delay the commissioning of the platforms comes to the fore.

Turkey has completely abandoned its plans to supply the F-35. Risk management of the MMU as the main combat platform has become a much more sensitive issue. In the new generation engine development program, which is one of the most critical components of MMU, risk sharing was a normal and expected thing. Rolls Royce will likely transfer these studies to the engine development program of the Tempest project.

 

[Wergeland]

Excellent an amazing partner which will benefit Turkey greatly.
So what's on the cards, quick summary?
Engine for Turkey's stealth fighter.
An aircraft carrier for Turkey.

UK engineering is second to none
Great partnership

 

[TNT]

Previously, for example, in business models with the USA, everything was dependent on US license permissions and the participation of the Turkish industry in these platforms was limited within this framework. But here, the ownership of the platforms belongs to the SSB, and production and development activities will be carried out through Turkish companies.

What if England tries to take the opposite step tomorrow? For example, TEAC's (51% Turkish) business share could be transfer to TR Motor (Tai); or the company becomes completely nationalized. Maybe it will delay the project for a few years, but it will not prevent it from being produced, and the UK loses all of the work in existing projects, just for the limited delay it creates, is it worth? Do not underestimate Turkey's experience in this matter. It was about this that the negotiations with Rolls Royce lasted exactly 4 years.

The UK collaboration includes development support for the next generation engine and, if the negotiations are successful, a consultation and design support for the aircraft carrier in the format of the SEDEF-Navantia partnership at TCG Anadolu.

The productions in question will be made in Turkey. Industrial rights will belong to Turkey. Logistics infrastructure will be provided by Turkish defense companies. National solutions will be used on the basis of subsystems.

If considering Turkey's military/aviation R&D capacity and economic size: the strategy based on developing state-of-the-art solutions simultaneously in hundreds of sub-working areas and bringing them together on platforms for the first time such as aircraft carrier and combat jets, is a very risky. The biggest of these risks will be the weakening of the deterrence of the Turkish armed forces due to delayed projects. Existing regional risk factors prevent Turkey from taking this risk. Instead, the model based on long-term planning by using the existing industry capabilities and getting consultancy on the missing points so that the solution of these problems does not delay the commissioning of the platforms comes to the fore.

Turkey has completely abandoned its plans to supply the F-35. Risk management of the MMU as the main combat platform has become a much more sensitive issue. In the new generation engine development program, which is one of the most critical components of MMU, risk sharing was a normal and expected thing. Rolls Royce will likely transfer these studies to the engine development program of the Tempest project.

If Turkey had everything in control then why even go for partnership? It shows Turkey lack critical engine technology. You can give many explanations but reality is that they can go back on their contracts anytime. US and UK are the same thing, infact UK will only require a wink from US to backstab Turkey.

 

[hyperman]

If Turkey had everything in control then why even go for partnership? It shows Turkey lack critical engine technology. You can give many explanations but reality is that they can go back on their contracts anytime. US and UK are the same thing, infact UK will only require a wink from US to backstab Turkey.

there is no other option, there are 3-4 places that are capable of building a turbofan like this or are currently building one. The US with the Pratt and Whitney F135, the Joint French/German Snecma/MTU Aero Engines engine for the FCAS, the Russian Saturn izdeliye 30 and the Chinese Xian WS-15. There are issues with the US over the PKK/S-400/Gulen Greek/Armenian/Israeli lobby pressure and other issues. the French/German engine similarly has issues b/c any tension with Greece and the Eu will result in problems with the project as the Altay Tank engine embargo showed with Germany. The Russian option has its own complications as seen with recent events, and in many places Russia is a geopolitical adversary of Turkey. The Chinese option is a possibility, but that could be problematic as well(Uygur issue and potential friction with the US).

No option is without flaw, but the UK option seems more reasonable, atleast in comparison to the EU and US option. The UK is desperate to find a partner to split costs for development of an engine for the BAE Tempest, and Turkey needs an engine as well, plus RollsRoyce codeveloped the F136 which was supposed to be the alternative engine for the F-35 before it was cancelled, so they aren't starting from scratch and have done some development already..

Turkey desperately needs a tech transfer for the engine development and if RollsRoyce is willing, then its not a bad option for help in development. If this doesn't work out then the WS-15 option be something to pursue, but as I said it has its own complications.

 

[Trango Towers]

If Turkey had everything in control then why even go for partnership? It shows Turkey lack critical engine technology. You can give many explanations but reality is that they can go back on their contracts anytime. US and UK are the same thing, infact UK will only require a wink from US to backstab Turkey.

Please. Why is there collaboration in the typhoon?

 

[EAGLE777]

there is no other option, there are 3-4 places that are capable of building a turbofan like this or are currently building one. The US with the Pratt and Whitney F135, the Joint French/German Snecma/MTU Aero Engines engine for the FCAS, the Russian Saturn izdeliye 30 and the Chinese Xian WS-15. There are issues with the US over the PKK/S-400/Gulen Greek/Armenian/Israeli lobby pressure and other issues. the French/German engine similarly has issues b/c any tension with Greece and the Eu will result in problems with the project as the Altay Tank engine embargo showed with Germany. The Russian option has its own complications as seen with recent events, and in many places Russia is a geopolitical adversary of Turkey. The Chinese option is a possibility, but that could be problematic as well(Uygur issue and potential friction with the US).

No option is without flaw, but the UK option seems more reasonable, atleast in comparison to the EU and US option. The UK is desperate to find a partner to split costs for development of an engine for the BAE Tempest, and Turkey needs an engine as well, plus RollsRoyce codeveloped the F136 which was supposed to be the alternative engine for the F-35 before it was cancelled, so they aren't starting from scratch and have done some development already..

Turkey desperately needs a tech transfer for the engine development and if RollsRoyce is willing, then its not a bad option for help in development. If this doesn't work out then the WS-15 option be something to pursue, but as I said it has its own complications.

Only disagreed with WS-15 part if this doesn’t work out it will just take more time but Turkey will make its own engine.

 

[Oublious]

UK companies will not be involved with AC project, Navantia will be a part. Engine project for the TF-X will be done with RR.