A new economic system for the near-future

[Soumitra]

If you want to buy a leather jacket you can buy it with some of one month's Credits. Even when the Credits roll back to 20 the leather jacket will stay with you. You can buy something else next month too and keep it for permanence.



Work in such a society will be rewarded by how much contribution a person makes. Most work can be mechanized and automated.

1. For example, a house's sewage output can be treated in a special septic tank in the house's premises and can result in water and fertilizer for the garden plants. The sewage system should be built scientifically for easy maintenance and if it breaks down the repairer can be a specialist who also knows HVAC and maintenance of Vertical Farms as well. A job that requires good amount of engineering knowledge.

2. Many doctors now study medicine out of interest. In a more scientifically-designed society there will be lesser number of injuries and deaths and therefore lesser time a doctor needs to spend on treatments. For example, at present India, China and USA have the three highest number of road accidents in the world, in that order. In a society where privately-owned personal transport vehicles have been abolished there would be a drastically reduced number of road accidents and hence trauma or generalist doctors who would be less burdened for large parts of the week or month.

There is no human reason why these two types of people ( #1 and #2 ) should be unjustly rewarded. Both are humans.

In other sectors, imagine 3D Printing-based two-storey four-bedroom comfortable houses with garden. In civil engineering courses this technique can be taught along with architecture to a large number of people. So an operator of a 3D Printer machine for houses will not be an illiterate but an educated engineer. At present India has a large amount of land where say 10 villages can be replaced with one new city-culture township. The engineers will be architects too and will contribute to bringing urban life not-very-socially-advanced village culture.

I asked a simple yes or no question you gave stupid theory.

What is the incentive of a person to study medicine and be a doctor if he earns the same as an illiterate labourer?

Dont give me socialistic gyaan. Give a straight forward answer.

 

[jamahir]

Sounds more of incentive system rather than an economic system. Or maybe I haven't been able to comprehend the idea fully.

Yes it is an incentive-based system where people are rewarded based on those contributions that can be understood as good by any sensible person. As example of contrast, at present some MBA may work in a "futures" trading company but his efforts don't actually contribute to anything useful for a society.

From the Wikpedia definition of "Economic system" :

An economic system, or economic order, is a system of production, resource allocation and distribution of goods and services within a society or a given geographic area.

So, considering the money-system presented, the allocation of free services and system-owned means of production ( which I have not actually mentioned here ) the proposal is also of an economic system.

 

[jamahir]

I asked a simple yes or no question you gave stupid theory.

What is the incentive of a person to study medicine and be a doctor if he earns the same as an illiterate labourer?

Dont give me socialistic gyaan. Give a straight forward answer.

In simple words :

1. At present does a doctor only study to make money ?

2. I told you, there would be no illiterate laborers. Any work requiring physical labor will be done by people who are proper engineer specialists and their educated apprentices.

 

[ps3linux]

Hello, the below idea has been brewing in my head for some time and it came up during recent discussions with @Naofumi and @Soumitra in different threads. I present a new economic system that is needed especially in countries like India and Pakistan where old regressive social mores meet modern capitalist ideas to produce a toxic socio-economic culture where especially lot of the middle class does not look at the socio-economic disparities and injustices that happen because of an uneven money system.

My system is not entirely money-less but more an evolution and is as thus :

All basic needs ( housing, water, basic food, essential clothes, electricity, healthcare, communication, mass-public transport, legal service which will be rare anyway in such a system, etc ) being for free and the remaining things ( non-basic food, clothing accessories, hair styling, gym membership, transportation by taxi, the visit to the restaurant or tea-house, permission for house party, etc ) being a paid-for thing via an evolved money system like the "Social Credits" system being implemented in China.

Let's assume that the Social Credits for each person will be 20 at the start of every month. He will be able to obtain a few services with these Credits. He will need to do his designated regular job and any possible extra community service to increase the credits by say 5. Not doing certain things will decrease his Credits. Doing an anti-social thing will get him punished by jail or non-Credit community service depending on the severity. Importantly, the gained Credits do not add to the next month's Credits and make the person a "richer" man. They start fresh from 20.

This way there is no economic disparity, all get the basic necessities without suffering and anybody say with a penchant for stylish clothing and personal grooming will have to contribute harder to the community.

The system can be applied in three ways :

1. There already are economic unions such as the EU, ALBA and CIS. My proposal is just an advancement on these.

2. An individual country can adopt it while at the same time work with the accepted international trading currency, the American Dollar, because the country's means of production will have been nationalized and the goods and services will be exported by the system and not by individual private businesses.

3. The proposal can be later presented at international offline forums such as the UNO. There is no rational reason why a country cannot adopt it. Please see my signature below my post.

This is a work in progress. I plan to speak of this to various progressive movements in India at the right time.

---

@RealNapster @Joe Shearer @ps3linux @Indos @Moonlight @Iltutmish @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan others.

Will contribute, but for now let me recover somewhat from COVID-19

 

[jamahir]

and too similar to Communism

Wikipedia's understanding of Communism :

Communism is a philosophical, social, political, economic ideology and movement whose ultimate goal is the establishment of a communist society, namely a socioeconomic order structured upon the ideas of common ownership of the means of production and the absence of social classes, money and the state

What is wrong with it ? And to add to my proposal I have been propagating the Direct Democracy system ( called The Third Universal Theory aka Jamahiriya theory ) that was being followed in Libya until 2011 where the people directly ruled and there was no government as we understand in countries that adopted the British governance system. Please read the Libyan system in this page.

as well as excessive Government involvement.

How ?

I was wondering what do you think could be done to replace/as an alternative to pensions. I feel as though they are no longer as good as they were and their future looks bleak if the worker to retiree ratio keeps decreasing.

Interesting question. Allow me to think about this.

 

[Soumitra]

1. At present does a doctor only study to make money ?

99.99% times Yes

2. I told you, there would be no illiterate laborers. Any work requiring physical labor will be done by people who are proper engineer specialists and their educated apprentices.

Why will an engineer waste 4 years study to do a masons job

Before you ask - Yes 99.99% of the engineers study engineering to make money

I am leaving 0.01% margin for nutjobs like you

 

[jamahir]

99.99% times Yes

Rubbish !

Why will an engineer waste 4 years study to do a masons job

Because the mason will actually be an engineer or his educated apprentice.

Before you ask - Yes 99.99% of the engineers study engineering to make money

Yeah and we all saw how nicely buildings crumbled when struck by earthquakes in Gujarat, Nepal, Iran etc and these building had been built by "educated" civil engineers.

And we also know all too well how "useful" most Indian computer engineers are.

I am leaving 0.01% margin for nutjobs like you

You just spat on people across the world who work for humanity's sake.

 

[Soumitra]

Rubbish !

Welcome to the real world.

You just spat on people across the world who work for humanity's sake.

Go to any college website - they all like to attract students with the placement program. How many companies recruit the students at which pay package.

Even your favourite JNU does it

https://www.jnu.ac.in/placementcell/

That is why I said except of 0.01% loser nutjobs like you no one does anything for free

 

[jamahir]

Even your favourite JNU does it

https://www.jnu.ac.in/placementcell/

One of the links from there has this :

Henry Giroux, a pioneering name in Critical Pedagogy and Culture studies, had famously observed that universities should be about more than developing work skills. They must also be about producing civic-minded and critically engaged citizens - citizens who can engage in debate, dialogue and bear witness to a different and critical sense of remembering, agency, ethics and collective resistance. JNU reflects precisely this understanding of a university.

So I can hope for JNU to be sympathetic to ideas such as mine.

Go to any college website - they all like to attract students with the placement program. How many companies recruit the students at which pay package.

And how has that worked out for India ? That "wonderful bunch" of graduates from LPU and BITS Pilani ?

That is why I said except of 0.01% loser nutjobs like you no one does anything for free

The real losers are those like you who say they are educated but then attend sermons of charlatans like "Sadhguru" Jaggi Vasudev and obey Modi's orders to bang eating plates to drive away Corona. The last, somebody had posted here the vid of a woman in a maxi ( maybe from Gurgaon or Bangalore ) madly banging away a plate to drive away Corona. A real loser.

As for free service, you have a very primitive and selfish mindset which looks for cost-benefit analysis before thinking of helping the poor and oppressed.

 

[Soumitra]

So I can hope for JNU to be sympathetic to ideas such as mine.

Stupid ideas like yours can be generated only with JNU Jhollawallahs. They are the ones who worship crackpots like marx.

That is why I say shut down JNU

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Hello, the below idea has been brewing in my head for some time and it came up during recent discussions with @Naofumi and @Soumitra in different threads. I present a new economic system that is needed especially in countries like India and Pakistan where old regressive social mores meet modern capitalist ideas to produce a toxic socio-economic culture where especially lot of the middle class does not look at the socio-economic disparities and injustices that happen because of an uneven money system.

My system is not entirely money-less but more an evolution and is as thus :

All basic needs ( housing, water, basic food, essential clothes, electricity, healthcare, communication, mass-public transport, legal service which will be rare anyway in such a system, etc ) being for free and the remaining things ( non-basic food, clothing accessories, hair styling, gym membership, transportation by taxi, the visit to the restaurant or tea-house, permission for house party, etc ) being a paid-for thing via an evolved money system like the "Social Credits" system being implemented in China.

Let's assume that the Social Credits for each person will be 20 at the start of every month. He will be able to obtain a few services with these Credits. He will need to do his designated regular job and any possible extra community service to increase the credits by say 5. Not doing certain things will decrease his Credits. Doing an anti-social thing will get him punished by jail or non-Credit community service depending on the severity. Importantly, the gained Credits do not add to the next month's Credits and make the person a "richer" man. They start fresh from 20.

This way there is no economic disparity, all get the basic necessities without suffering and anybody say with a penchant for stylish clothing and personal grooming will have to contribute harder to the community.

The system can be applied in three ways :

1. There already are economic unions such as the EU, ALBA and CIS. My proposal is just an advancement on these.

2. An individual country can adopt it while at the same time work with the accepted international trading currency, the American Dollar, because the country's means of production will have been nationalized and the goods and services will be exported by the system and not by individual private businesses.

3. The proposal can be later presented at international offline forums such as the UNO. There is no rational reason why a country cannot adopt it. Please see my signature below my post.

This is a work in progress. I plan to speak of this to various progressive movements in India at the right time.

---

@RealNapster @Joe Shearer @ps3linux @Indos @Moonlight @Iltutmish @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan others.

Apki deen ne apko ale shan rashta diya he, aur aap communism ki bhoongiyan marr rahe ho janab.

Samhal jao. Quran parho ziyada se ziyada, Marxism ya mazdakism ko choro.

 

[jamahir]

Apki deen ne apko ale shan rashta diya he, aur aap communism ki bhoongiyan marr rahe ho janab.

Samhal jao. Quran parho ziyada se ziyada, Marxism ya mazdakism ko choro.

Bhai, please read this section of the OP :

a new economic system that is needed especially in countries like India and Pakistan where old regressive social mores meet modern capitalist ideas to produce a toxic socio-economic culture where especially lot of the middle class does not look at the socio-economic disparities and injustices that happen because of an uneven money system.

Now tell me why a development is not needed.

I am not saying don't believe in God. I am just talking of a new socio-economic system.

Please listen to the song called Inqalab from the Pakistani band Laal.

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

@Bilal9 @Hamartia Antidote

Unfortunately income equality sounds good on paper but in reality it doesn't work very well due to human nature.

If the guy selling ice cream on a sunny beach makes just as much as some high stress brain surgeon job not many people will have an incentive to become a brain surgeon. People will gravitate to the "easy" jobs or if in a harder job simply do the absolute minimum required causing stagnation. There is no benefit of working harder.

 

[Imran Khan]

Can I call you "Sasta Karl Marx"?

ghareeboon ka karl marx

 

[Soumitra]

Unfortunately income equality sounds good on paper but in reality it doesn't work very well due to human nature.

If the guy selling ice cream on a sunny beach makes just as much as some high stress brain surgeon job not many people will have an incentive to become a brain surgeon. People will gravitate to the "easy" jobs or if in a harder job simply do the absolute minimum required causing stagnation. There is no benefit of working harder.

The day @jamahir understands this simple thing will be the day he stops dreaming of utopia.