A ‘Muslim Union’ is the need of the hour

[RangerPK]

I said it was "highly unlikely".

But interesting to think about.

This is an age of regional bloc, and Middle East seems to be in a dire need of Forming regional bloc, or else Middle East countries would be getting invaded every other day as a normal routine. The Middle East does not really need religion as an essential factor to form this bloc on..what they need is true justice, law and order with in their countries.

Religion is a factor though that can facilitate this bloc, as three major Abrahimic religions, judaism, Christianity and Islam originated from Middle East. Middle East has strong roots in religion.


Also, the term Middle East is a political one, not. Geographical one. Middle East is mostly in Asia, and some of it is in Africa.

It is a term invented by The west. Lets be honest, and address the white elephant in the room. It is term invented by the west for Muslim Countries. The horizon of the term middle east is expanding as Americnas are coming with a newer term, the "Greater Middle East" which also include Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Central Asia, and extended parts of Africa..

 

[MooshMoosh]

OIC is just a lame organization which doesn't benefit anything like the Arab league which is even more laughable. Only solution to revive Islamic unity.

• Go back to the Quran and the Suunah
• Get rid of the Shias. What did Salah'din Ayyub taught us?
• Get rid of the tyrants and military regimes
• Cut Nationalism
• Avoid allying with the West

That's the key. Unfortunately, Muslims nowadays are brainwashed in the West and ignoring the bloodshed caused in the Islamic territories that were being occupied by the West, who's more important in defence; The Ka'ba or the shedding of a single Muslim?

That's all, case closed.

 

[Kompromat]

I would like to believe that but... what you guys have done is radicalization of your societies with different entities going after their own interests and whose main aim is to usurp power. They thrive on chaos and mayhem united by their goal to drive out the occupation forces.

They can be defeated by the people power.

 

[p(-)0ENiX]

Yes you are right. If we want to experience the human potential of such bloc, without having to go through the massive effort to unite middle eastern countries. Then we can do this on our own, with the territory of Pakistan.

We can adopt the nationality/citizen policy of USA, that any foreigner can acquire the nationality of Pakistan and become a Pakistani, that mean, Muslim from around the world, Arabia, Africa, Turk, Palestine, Central Asia, Indonesia etc, can migrate to Pakistan, acquire Pakistani citizenship, become Pakistanis, and have the same rights and duties like any other Pakistani.

We can enjoy the diversity of Middle Eastern bloc at home, and the human potential that comes with it.

I disagree with this idea. I don't really have a problem with immigration provided it's controlled & managed effectively, but to give out our citizenship to foreigners en masse is unacceptable. Pakistan has lots of indigenous diversity in language & culture, even more so than many other Muslim countries from all over the world. There is no human potential in the move unless all of those immigrants happen to be among the elites (investors, scientists, researchers, etc.) in their homelands. For people like that, other countries are going to be a far more attractive place than Pakistan. As far as the others go, we have a vast population, many of whom require education & jobs, our goal should initially be their prosperity. Besides, we don't really need labour as some Middle Eastern countries did in the past. Furthermore, I notice that you are implying that only Muslims should be provided with citizenships. What about others assuming that they want it? Although, that's highly unlikely in our country's current condition.

Have you considered the difficulty involved in integrating all of these races, languages, & cultures provided they acquire citizenship? Pakistanis share a collective heritage & even common origins going back thousands of years, what do you share with these people besides religion? Should the locals allow things like affirmative action? How about assimilation, which is next to impossible when other races are involved? How about the constant whining over racism, which is common among Africans & many Middle Easterners? The preservation of heritage needs to be considered too, & while you might not care about that, many people do & there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Did you think about the crime rate? I know & have met people from all the regions you have listed, while some of them are good people, others require a slap & a good beating regularly to keep them in their place. All in all, we are simply too different to integrate, & many other nations that offer citizenships face trouble with integration too. This includes Western nations & countries like Malaysia, which has 3 different ethnic groups residing in it. In spite of all the efforts they have made, there are still some ethnic tensions in the society.

 

[PoKeMon]

Cam muslims do anything without religion being THE reason?

A unity based on religion when religion itself has internal sectarian conflicts is itself contradictory.

• Go back to the Quran and the Suunah
• Get rid of the Shias. What did Salah'din Ayyub taught us?
• Get rid of the tyrants and military regimes

How to get rid of shias? Genocide?

Then how come killing is following Quran?

And when you do so much of killing, how will you get rid of tyranny which is more a state of mind?

 

[Shak]

there was no unity among muslims since beginnign post death of prophet .... one side completly left out and denied their rights......

muslims are worst enemy for muslims.......and its proved since beginning of Islam.....battle of siffin .... battle of karabala......etc etc

power hungry people converted to Islam and grab the power post death of prophet ..... that hunger still continue through offspring ......... unity among muslim is just day dream.......

 

[Chak Bamu]

The concept of Ummah is alive and well within general Muslim population, whether they are in the West, East, or the middle. I know it, I have seen it, I have experienced it. Nobody can tell me that it was a dream and not a reality. Some forum-members who are teenagers, and those in early twenties have no concept or idea of the practical outcome of this idea. Therefore they are more prone to take a nationalist approach. I just wish they could stop and reflect before they would allow their itchy fingers do the talking.

Taking this concept of Ummah to a logical political conclusion is something that is difficult. It would take a few generations once Muslims on the whole resolve that it be done. There are a lot of issues that have already been pointed out by posters and I will list them:

1. Extremism
2. Racism
3. Tyranny
4. Economic disparity
5. Sectarianism, linked to #1. Extremism
6. The role of 'Western' countries

Expanding upon this would make it a very long post and I could write a book about this subject. Since such can not be done here, I shall only provide pointers.

We have seen EU form over the last 2-3 generations. We could copy this model.

We could begin by a few countries forming a club and espousing the following values:

1. Constitutionalism & forms of representative government that truly reflect people's choice.
2. Anti-Sectarianism stance. No sect can be allowed to suppress and oppress others.
3. Elimination of border disputes between members.
4. Adoption of welfare state model, with some common rules derived from Quran & Hadith.
5. Freedom of speech bound with common decency.

Each of the above would require tremendous intellectual, educational, and institutional efforts. But countries like Malaysia, Turkey, Pakistan, and Indonesia can begin before others since they each have wide support for Constitutionalism & welfare state model & Freedom to criticize government.

None of the Middle Eastern countries can qualify upon these criteria. Some are just now starting with representational system of governance and need time to mature. Some are not even beginning on this path.

Once there is broad agreement over the essentials, there could be a beginning just like EU begun. Once there is a parliament of eminent Muslim experienced in the norms and workings of constitutional representational government, they could elect a President / Prime Minister / Khalifah / Emir / etc... for a limited term and with limited powers. Given a reasonable budget and a control over a small highly trained military to diffuse internal conflicts and guarantee peace, there could be a paradigm shift on a fundamental level. If this model succeeds in delivering goals of better governance, suppression of conflict, end to 'Western' meddling, disaster response, peace mission efforts, and ensuring prevalence of justice, we could call this a success. We could use this institution to address many of today's shared problems within Muslims and within Humanity at large.

This institution must not mean aggressive wars, support for Muslim minorities for extra-special treatment, or rule of a particular sect. Any expansion in influence must come from education about real benefits of such a system.

One can never go back to any of the earlier models of Islamic unity. They had their reasons to exist in their times with unique problems. We can not blindly copy them. In fact we must learn from their mistakes and failures.

OIC is just a lame organization which doesn't benefit anything like the Arab league which is even more laughable. Only solution to revive Islamic unity.

• Go back to the Quran and the Suunah
• Get rid of the Shias. What did Salah'din Ayyub taught us?
• Get rid of the tyrants and military regimes
• Cut Nationalism
• Avoid allying with the West

That's the key. Unfortunately, Muslims nowadays are brainwashed in the West and ignoring the bloodshed caused in the Islamic territories that were being occupied by the West, who's more important in defence; The Ka'ba or the shedding of a single Muslim?

That's all, case closed.

Brother, I am not a Shia, but your views about Shias are very disturbing. We could go ahead and have a region wide religious civil war, lose 40% of our population, go back into stone age and then find out once again what it is to be directly ruled over by strangers.

Each and every sect has their opinions and arguments on some sort of an interpretation of Quran and Sunnah - even Shias. As long as there is no abuse of religious personalities (Sahaba), we should be able to deal with differences.

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

A global Muslim Union would have a population of around 1.5 billion.

It would also have a massive economy, and it would have control over two of the most important geo-strategic regions in the world (Central Asia and the Middle East).

As well as control over the vast majority of oil and gas reserves on the planet.

That would be a true global power, in a way that China is not (yet).

Lol CD. Do u think Saudi, Kuwait, UAE will share its riches with poor countries like Pakistan, Afg & BD?
Complete day dreaming. You should know the way the gulfist treat the labourers(muslims I mean!) from subcontinent.

 

[hussain0216]

The entity itself is enourmous

1.7 billion muslims

Hugh land mass, massive resources many untouched because of underdevelopment

The possilibilities are endless

Muslim unity is a reality that cann occur only when muslims come to power in muslim countries and have a sincere desire to implement Islam


It dosent immediatly have to be some uber organisation it can start off with increased trade, military links, guranteed support for muslim interest issues such as Kashmir, palestine or Burma

Eventually things will begin to fall in place.

But it all needs to start with a sincere desire for islam and brotherhood

This exists in the hearts of a large proportion of the worlds 1.7 billion muslims but our elites are cowardly and lack courage & conviction and are preoccupied with keeping power not helping their people



Even Pakistani secular types who reject the concept of a wider muslim body cant deny the massive possibilities if we can utilise this hugh world population and land mass

 

[GoodBoy]

I had a feeling that a Pakistani opened this thread. Do you see any Arabs desperate for a so called "Muslim Union"??? NO!!!!

Only brainwashed Pakistanis under the delusion of "Ummah brotherhood" open such threads and believe in such fantasies!

Believe it or not but our "brotherly" Islamic countries and their leaderships maintain excellent relations with our enemy (india). Arafat once called indira gandhi his sister, lets not forget her role in the dismemberment of our country in 1971.

Its time to wake up and realize that Pakistan is its own separate entity with its own national interests! We are not a part of any non-existent brotherhood!

LOL... another "Muslim Union" wet dream... Muslims are busy killing each other.

It's not surprising mostly Pakistanis dreaming this.How about Pakistan first unite themselves and ask Bangladesh to join back.The Pakistani wet dreams of becoming "leader" of Muslims is a funny thing.

 

[Kompromat]

LOL... another "Muslim Union" wet dream... Muslims are busy killing each other.

It's not surprising mostly Pakistanis dreaming this.How about Pakistan first unite themselves and ask Bangladesh to join back.The Pakistani wet dreams of becoming "leader" of Muslims is a funny thing.

Good talk

 

[Not Sure]

Mere fact that in the history of the world there has never been any unity among nations based purely on religion, stands proof for the notion that people are more loyal to their respective cultures, than to their religion.

And the lack of unity among Islamic countries (countries so loyal to their religion that even the nations are called Islamic) exaggerates this fact exponentially.

 

[RangerPK]

I disagree with this idea. I don't really have a problem with immigration provided it's controlled & managed effectively, but to give out our citizenship to foreigners en masse is unacceptable. Pakistan has lots of indigenous diversity in language & culture, even more so than many other Muslim countries from all over the world. There is no human potential in the move unless all of those immigrants happen to be among the elites (investors, scientists, researchers, etc.) in their homelands. For people like that, other countries are going to be a far more attractive place than Pakistan. As far as the others go, we have a vast population, many of whom require education & jobs, our goal should initially be their prosperity. Besides, we don't really need labour as some Middle Eastern countries did in the past. Furthermore, I notice that you are implying that only Muslims should be provided with citizenships. What about others assuming that they want it? Although, that's highly unlikely in our country's current condition.

Have you considered the difficulty involved in integrating all of these races, languages, & cultures provided they acquire citizenship? Pakistanis share a collective heritage & even common origins going back thousands of years, what do you share with these people besides religion? Should the locals allow things like affirmative action? How about assimilation, which is next to impossible when other races are involved? How about the constant whining over racism, which is common among Africans & many Middle Easterners? The preservation of heritage needs to be considered too, & while you might not care about that, many people do & there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Did you think about the crime rate? I know & have met people from all the regions you have listed, while some of them are good people, others require a slap & a good beating regularly to keep them in their place. All in all, we are simply too different to integrate, & many other nations that offer citizenships face trouble with integration too. This includes Western nations & countries like Malaysia, which has 3 different ethnic groups residing in it. In spite of all the efforts they have made, there are still some ethnic tensions in the society.

Yes, these are all the challenges that come with it.

If we ever take such a step in Pakistan, it would change it completely and turn it to something new.

1. Extremism
2. Racism
3. Tyranny
4. Economic disparity
5. Sectarianism, linked to #1. Extremism
6. The role of 'Western' countries

:

1. Constitutionalism & forms of representative government that truly reflect people's choice.
2. Anti-Sectarianism stance. No sect can be allowed to suppress and oppress others.
3. Elimination of border disputes between members.
4. Adoption of welfare state model, with some common rules derived from Quran & Hadith.
5. Freedom of speech bound with common decency.

.

Why not do this at home first before preaching that to other countries. We can barely agree on a construction of dam Kyon Kay Punjab pani pi jai gha

 

[OrionHunter]

When Shias and Sunnis can't see eye to eye, how can there be a 'Muslim Union'? Will Saudi Arabia and Iran ever be part of the same union?

A union based on religion is impractical and will never happen. Period!

 

[RangerPK]

The entity itself is enourmous

1.7 billion muslims

Hugh land mass, massive resources many untouched because of underdevelopment

The possilibilities are endless

Muslim unity is a reality that cann occur only when muslims come to power in muslim countries and have a sincere desire to implement Islam


It dosent immediatly have to be some uber organisation it can start off with increased trade, military links, guranteed support for muslim interest issues such as Kashmir, palestine or Burma

Eventually things will begin to fall in place.

But it all needs to start with a sincere desire for islam and brotherhood

This exists in the hearts of a large proportion of the worlds 1.7 billion muslims but our elites are cowardly and lack courage & conviction and are preoccupied with keeping power not helping their people



Even Pakistani secular types who reject the concept of a wider muslim body cant deny the massive possibilities if we can utilise this hugh world population and land mass

I don't agree with that. It doesn't matter if a regional bloc is Muslim or not. Look at EU, are they Muslims? No. What matters is if there some , law, order, security and stability in the country.

. It does not even matter if people have deep love for each other, when there is no law, order, or security and it does not matter if people hate each other, if there is law, order, security, justice..