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A loss of face in the Himalayas

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So the Chinese have gone back to their side of the “fence”, a fence that they have never acknowledged, but which we, India, have always firmly believed in. As everyone knows, on 15 April, Chinese troops had intruded 19 km into what India has always held to be its territory, and set up camp there. For two weeks, soldiers of the Indian army and the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) sat there, at 20,000 feet, glaring at each other. Negotiations happened, the nature of which have not been made public, and finally the Chinese withdrew. Though nothing seems to have been announced officially yet, in return, the Indians apparently agreed to dismantle or evacuate the forward fortifications they had built on the bulge that overlooks the China-Pakistan Karakoram Highway.

Whichever way you look at it, it was a victory for China.

If we believe that this is our territory, why on earth did we agree to pull back
?

For the first week or so of the stand-off in the Himalayas, the Indian government seemed to be in denial. The Prime Minister called it a “localized” problem, external affairs minister Salman Khurshid, who was packing his bags for his visit to Beijing, said that it was only a “pimple” on the otherwise perfect complexion of Indo-Chinese relationships. Who were they fooling?

A couple of years ago, I had taken a holiday in a part of India that adjoins China. Through some common friends, I came to know the colonel who headed the Indian military outpost on the border. As has always been my experience, our army men are the best and most gracious hosts in the world. We were given a tour, lunch, drinks, and a sincere invitation to come back any time we wanted. At one point, I found myself alone in a jeep with the colonel, who was driving. He pointed out the heights where Indian soldiers sat at oxygen-defiant altitudes and bone-freezing temperatures, keeping a watch on their Chinese counterparts barely hundreds of metres away. If this was the Pakistan border, he mused, the task would be simple. If there was an act of aggression or incursion, he would know exactly what to do. But this was the Chinese border. As an Indian soldier, he told me, he was quite clear in his mind that if something unpleasant was started off by the other side, he would do what his duty and conscience dictated. But, he said, glancing at me as he manoeuvred the jeep around the snow-bound curves, he was unsure whether he would get any support from his superiors or from the bureaucrats in Delhi.

That is the crux of the problem.

China has been aggressively building roads and airstrips along the Indian border for years now, for rapid deployment of troops. We finally managed to begin laying some roads in 2008 or so, but we have a lot of catching up to do. We have been talking of raising a special mountain corps for years now, but have done nothing about it, other than talk. When it came to a stand-off, we agreed to go back, inside our own territory, so that we could get the Chinese to leave India. All negotiations are about give and take. We certainly gave, but what did we take?

Reports in the media claim that subtle warnings were sent to China that Salman Khurshid would not visit China, and that Chinese Premier Li Keqiang’s trip to India later this month would be cancelled. Two points come to mind. One, the truth is that, the Chinese refused to confirm Khurshid’s visit while the stand-off was on. Two, if the Chinese army was unaware of their country’s Prime Minister’s scheduled visit to India, then there is certainly a communication gap—or, more importantly—a mismatch of intent between the PLA and the Chinese civilian government. This is difficult to believe. In 1978, when then external affairs minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee visited China, his hosts welcomed him by invading Vietnam that same night.

What is very likely is that before the Prime Ministerial visit, China wanted to show India its place in China’s scheme of things. That it has achieved successfully.

This is what happened. The Chinese entered 19 km into Indian territory. We could have done several things. Our soldiers could have circled round them and cut off their supply line. We could have sat behind them and glared at them. We did nothing. In the end, they strolled back into their own territory, and we retreated further back in our own land. Who lost face? Who achieved what they had set out to do? The Chinese wanted to test us, and we failed the test, to their delight—and one has a feeling that the Chinese knew that we would fail.

The brave and patriotic colonel at that border outpost was absolutely right.

When Chinese Premier Li Keqiang gets off his plane at Delhi, he will be strutting down the stairs

A loss of face in the Himalayas - Livemint
 
Just don't understand why india so scared of us

Indian Army dismantling bunkers in Chumar in Ladakh

NEW DELHI: The Indian Army is dismantling its bunkers in Chumar area in Ladakh as part of the understanding reached with the Chinese Army that ended the 21-day stand-off over the intrusion by Chinese troops in the Daulat Beg Oldi (DBO) sector.

The bunkers are in the process of being dismantled by the Army as per the understanding between the armies of the two sides during the flag meetings, sources said here today.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/indian-army-dismantling-bunkers-in-chumar-in-ladakh/articleshow/19953940.cms
 
make-me-laugh-d884e93a2b0d0bcae52ee11e89e2c30c7c5f0a50-s51.jpg
 
So the Chinese have gone back to their side of the “fence”, a fence that they have never acknowledged, but which we, India, have always firmly believed in. As everyone knows, on 15 April, Chinese troops had intruded 19 km into what India has always held to be its territory, and set up camp there. For two weeks, soldiers of the Indian army and the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) sat there, at 20,000 feet, glaring at each other. Negotiations happened, the nature of which have not been made public, and finally the Chinese withdrew. Though nothing seems to have been announced officially yet, in return, the Indians apparently agreed to dismantle or evacuate the forward fortifications they had built on the bulge that overlooks the China-Pakistan Karakoram Highway.

Whichever way you look at it, it was a victory for China.

If we believe that this is our territory, why on earth did we agree to pull back
?

For the first week or so of the stand-off in the Himalayas, the Indian government seemed to be in denial. The Prime Minister called it a “localized” problem, external affairs minister Salman Khurshid, who was packing his bags for his visit to Beijing, said that it was only a “pimple” on the otherwise perfect complexion of Indo-Chinese relationships. Who were they fooling?

A couple of years ago, I had taken a holiday in a part of India that adjoins China. Through some common friends, I came to know the colonel who headed the Indian military outpost on the border. As has always been my experience, our army men are the best and most gracious hosts in the world. We were given a tour, lunch, drinks, and a sincere invitation to come back any time we wanted. At one point, I found myself alone in a jeep with the colonel, who was driving. He pointed out the heights where Indian soldiers sat at oxygen-defiant altitudes and bone-freezing temperatures, keeping a watch on their Chinese counterparts barely hundreds of metres away. If this was the Pakistan border, he mused, the task would be simple. If there was an act of aggression or incursion, he would know exactly what to do. But this was the Chinese border. As an Indian soldier, he told me, he was quite clear in his mind that if something unpleasant was started off by the other side, he would do what his duty and conscience dictated. But, he said, glancing at me as he manoeuvred the jeep around the snow-bound curves, he was unsure whether he would get any support from his superiors or from the bureaucrats in Delhi.

That is the crux of the problem.

China has been aggressively building roads and airstrips along the Indian border for years now, for rapid deployment of troops. We finally managed to begin laying some roads in 2008 or so, but we have a lot of catching up to do. We have been talking of raising a special mountain corps for years now, but have done nothing about it, other than talk. When it came to a stand-off, we agreed to go back, inside our own territory, so that we could get the Chinese to leave India. All negotiations are about give and take. We certainly gave, but what did we take?

Reports in the media claim that subtle warnings were sent to China that Salman Khurshid would not visit China, and that Chinese Premier Li Keqiang’s trip to India later this month would be cancelled. Two points come to mind. One, the truth is that, the Chinese refused to confirm Khurshid’s visit while the stand-off was on. Two, if the Chinese army was unaware of their country’s Prime Minister’s scheduled visit to India, then there is certainly a communication gap—or, more importantly—a mismatch of intent between the PLA and the Chinese civilian government. This is difficult to believe. In 1978, when then external affairs minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee visited China, his hosts welcomed him by invading Vietnam that same night.

What is very likely is that before the Prime Ministerial visit, China wanted to show India its place in China’s scheme of things. That it has achieved successfully.

This is what happened. The Chinese entered 19 km into Indian territory. We could have done several things. Our soldiers could have circled round them and cut off their supply line. We could have sat behind them and glared at them. We did nothing. In the end, they strolled back into their own territory, and we retreated further back in our own land. Who lost face? Who achieved what they had set out to do? The Chinese wanted to test us, and we failed the test, to their delight—and one has a feeling that the Chinese knew that we would fail.

The brave and patriotic colonel at that border outpost was absolutely right.

When Chinese Premier Li Keqiang gets off his plane at Delhi, he will be strutting down the stairs

A loss of face in the Himalayas - Livemint

THe bold part is where i disagree. Not only did the Chinese enter into Indian territory but Indians also entered Chinese territory according to their line of perception and Chinese couldn't do a thing about it.

People forget something as basic as this. Makes the whole article senseless after this.China had to retreat even though India had more soldiers in the Chinese LAC than what the Chinese had in the Indian LAC.

Too complex for some simpletons to understand.


Pakistan_Surrender_1971_War.jpg


make-me-laugh-d884e93a2b0d0bcae52ee11e89e2c30c7c5f0a50-s51.jpg


It is wrong to laugh at your elders like this.

Show some respect.
 
I dont know what objectives Chinese had in their mind to make such a move and how far they succeeded but their method was wrong coz what it has done is that it has alerted New Delhi to be prepared for future and Indians are pretty good when they get time for preprations.The best is to catch us unaware if your plans is a war and Pakistan knows this very well.

Now what will happen is more preparedness will be brough.Maybe Moutain strike corps will be raised and who knows some agreements with Japan and USA which India had avoided in the past coz India wanted to keep her feet on both boats.
 
Just like pakistan with their half arsed attempt in kargil awakened the defense modernization so will this act awaken the formation of mountain strike corps !
 
Lame@ss article - the author thinks the chinese are 10 year old fat kids in a school yard :lol:

Just don't understand why india so scared of us

Indian Army dismantling bunkers in Chumar in Ladakh

NEW DELHI: The Indian Army is dismantling its bunkers in Chumar area in Ladakh as part of the understanding reached with the Chinese Army that ended the 21-day stand-off over the intrusion by Chinese troops in the Daulat Beg Oldi (DBO) sector.

The bunkers are in the process of being dismantled by the Army as per the understanding between the armies of the two sides during the flag meetings, sources said here today.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/indian-army-dismantling-bunkers-in-chumar-in-ladakh/articleshow/19953940.cms

What are these supposed sources? the GOI statement stands...
 
The border is peaceful, and the "no mans land" remains just that, a place where no permanent structures are built, there are only patrols.

In the meantime, while there is no conflict, the infrastructure on the Indian side is being built up. New divisions are being raised, and new equipment is (too) slowly being inducted.

India came out fine from this.
 
@Chinese posters...

Yes,if Incursion happens in Pakistan border,our soldiers have clear instruction,"Fire"..as it is a fenced border(atleast most of it) and Terrorists generally comes through the border,even if it is fenced.but Chinese border had very little fenced area,some area is patrolled by both country.and also a joint mechanism in place to sort out any stand off and the disputes,which clearly states that "de-escalate the situation by whichever means".thats why never Chinese or Indian soldiers fire towards each other and thats why Banner drill,flag meeting etc takes place.do you really want to interpret it as "scared"??don't be a troll..
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I don't know what is so difficult to understand about this point. People repeatedly keep asking why Indian forces withdrew from its own territory.

Point 1 : Indian forces only withdrew from the tented position they made near the chinese tents. They did NOT withdraw from DBO sector or ladakh.

Point 2 : Chinese people can ask the same thing, since they claim the place to be theirs, as to why they withdrew. They have more to ask and answer, since they were the ones who set up camps in that particular spot, which they claimed and still claim to be theirs, and then withdrew. It wasn't Indians who went to a particular spot and then returned.

Anyway we have to stop asking which side "won". Both sides acted maturely. And since we don't know the original intentions, we cannot comment. If China deliberately camped there to make India withdraw from DBO or stop construction of the airstrip that has shaken them so much, then they failed, and India won. If on the other hand, they came simply to pressure India into dismantling a few outposts, and India did so, then they won. But there is really no indication of that, and multiple sources say that India is not dismantling anything. Official sources on both sides are mum. And the infrastructure work on Indian side will go on, so one or two outposts will pale in comparison anyway, because of the road infra and airstrips we are building, and the two mountain divisions we have raised, and the mountain strike corps we are raising. And the third possibility of course is that the Chinese soldiers made a mistake and strayed into our territory, and such a hue and cry was raised that they couldn't simply go back immediately. And the diplommats on both sides agreed to go back to old positions after a few days of tea parties, with nothing else being done. In other words, there was no intent at all from the chinese side, it was a mistake that got worldwide attention.

So unless we know for sure about the intents, there is no point arguing about victory or defeat. The end result of the storm in a teacup is that both sides are where they were before the storm began. Time to stop these speculative threads, time to stop deciding victory through articles and forum posts, because no victory or defeat took place on the ground for either side.

China should go back to dealing with its troubles with its neighbors on the east, and India should go back to modernizing its forces and infrastructure.
 
THe bold part is where i disagree. Not only did the Chinese enter into Indian territory but Indians also entered Chinese territory according to their line of perception and Chinese couldn't do a thing about it.

People forget something as basic as this. Makes the whole article senseless after this.China had to retreat even though India had more soldiers in the Chinese LAC than what the Chinese had in the Indian LAC.

Too complex for some simpletons to understand.
QUOTE]

2 points

1 can you provide any news for this Indians also entered Chinese territory according to their line of perception and Chinese couldn't do a thing about it.

2 if you are doing the same why you guys making such a big deal out of it

well I guess some people just don't have the brain to post
 

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