A Light Sabre for the Third World: The FC-1 / JF-17

[PAFAce]

It is more like a Tata Nano to the fighter aircraft market.

It is more like a basic-to-mid-trim Toyota Corolla of the car world, basic, cheap, reliable, mass number fighter. the Mushhak is like a Nano.

And since I'm posting here anyway, let me just take the time to say that those numbers are hugely optimistic. Let's get our 250 down first, then we'll worry about the other 1250. No doubt the plane has potential, but let's not get carried away.

 

[maverick2009]

JF17 will sell well to those countries that CHINA has already sold F7s

That means Pakistan N kOREA And small African Air forces.

Your rich arabs will always go with Western Stuff because they want the engines and weapons that go with a fighter deal. Theses richer states want the whole package

But china will eat into the pie no doubt but more likely with J10 rather than JF17 .

 

[yh1]

500+ would be a reasonable number.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

My thinking is that pakistan should take the two tier approach for the sales of Jf 17 to interested nations. Pakistan should offer the display part and let the sales be handled by the chinese.

Pakistanis are better known for their flying experties---so they should do what they are good at. Be the showman--and let the chinese make the sales pitch. As it has been a team effort in producing the plane---then let it be a team effort in selling this plane to other nations as well.

Pakistan should not focus on its sales for home consumption only---right now is the time to find buyers for this plane and make arrangements for parallel deliveries as well. Oppurtunity lost is a wasted sales to a potential buyer.

I hope that paf and chengdu have a very active sales department to market this plane with the blessings of the chinese govt.

 

[Arsalan]

and what about the share in exports,,

if JF 17 are exported which country (pakistan/china) will get how much sahre or will it depends that if china is exporting all revenue is for china and if pakistan is doing so the money comes to us!
i dont think that it will be like this,, if so we may never get a chance to export them as china will be better option for any country buying these plane.

if no matter which country picks the order the revenue and cost are to be shared then what will be its ratio??? ant info?

 

[Gucci Juice]

wow that's a lot, but how will they be produced?

 

[PAFAce]

Hi,

My thinking is that pakistan should take the two tier approach for the sales of Jf 17 to interested nations. Pakistan should offer the display part and let the sales be handled by the chinese.

Pakistanis are better known for their flying experties---so they should do what they are good at. Be the showman--and let the chinese make the sales pitch. As it has been a team effort in producing the plane---then let it be a team effort in selling this plane to other nations as well.

Pakistan should not focus on its sales for home consumption only---right now is the time to find buyers for this plane and make arrangements for parallel deliveries as well. Oppurtunity lost is a wasted sales to a potential buyer.

I hope that paf and chengdu have a very active sales department to market this plane with the blessings of the chinese govt.

MastanKhan, I like your idea, but I don't think that the Pakistanis should restrict themselves just to flying. We must have our delegates in Chinese teams to learn the art of selling. We are becoming a bigger player in the defence world, and we must learn the ropes if we want to be successful. We must develop our marketing capabilities just like we have developed our engineering capabilities, by learning from those better equipped in the respective arts.

That said, I believe that right now Pakistan must focus on equipping itself with this plane, and let the Chinese worry about the sales part. A bird in hand is better than two in the bush. I think the best way to market the plane would be to successfully induct it into a professional Air Force and then take it out to air shows, displays etc. Nobody wants to buy an new and untested platform. Once the Pakistanis have put it through its paces as a full fledged defence system, the sales world will open up much more.

 

[Arsalan]

That said, I believe that right now Pakistan must focus on equipping itself with this plane, and let the Chinese worry about the sales part. A bird in hand is better than two in the bush. I think the best way to market the plane would be to successfully induct it into a professional Air Force and then take it out to air shows, displays etc. Nobody wants to buy an new and untested platform. Once the Pakistanis have put it through its paces as a full fledged defence system, the sales world will open up much more.

totally agreed!
getting a fighter is a huge budget game, there is lot of money and pressure involved! now in this case nations can not be convinced to buy JF17 just by paper work!
it will be better to induct a squadron or so and then begin the show! as said by PAFAce get it to air shows and show the world what the plane is capable of in what amount of money!
well JF17 have all the potential to be the new poor man's F16, now its all about marketting it!!

regards!

 

[Arsalan]

by the way can anyone tell us what will be the export revenue policy, how it will be shared among Pakistan and China,
1: will all the profit and cost of the deal will be upon the country who find and finalize the customer
or
2: the cost and profit of the deal will be distributed among both pak and china no matter who is dealing with customer!! and if so what will be the ratio of cost and profit distribution b/w pak as china as it was 50 / 50 in the development of the project!

i am waiting for your guaidance!

regards!

 

[PAFAce]

by the way can anyone tell us what will be the export revenue policy, how it will be shared among Pakistan and China,
1: will all the profit and cost of the deal will be upon the country who find and finalize the customer
or
2: the cost and profit of the deal will be distributed among both pak and china no matter who is dealing with customer!! and if so what will be the ratio of cost and profit distribution b/w pak as china as it was 50 / 50 in the development of the project!

i am waiting for your guaidance!

regards!

If I remember correctly, Arsalan, the profits will be shared 50-50. That is, once all the costs are taken care of, the rest of the revenue is split, since the original project cost was also split 50-50. Initially, most of the revenue will go to China since they will manufacture the majority of the plane (therefore, they will higher costs). However, as Pakistan increases its share of manufacturing, the revenue will balance out.

Just as a side note: Profit = Revenue - Cost
Profit may be shared 50-50, but revenue and cost may not be.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

Remember the F 16. The buyers were already lined up with orders. Pak and china need to do the same---by the time first pak sqdrn is operational---there should be an order from some country for the purchase of this plane around that time.

 

[fatman17]

Hi,

Remember the F 16. The buyers were already lined up with orders. Pak and china need to do the same---by the time first pak sqdrn is operational---there should be an order from some country for the purchase of this plane around that time.

all exports will be under FC-1 designation and production in China with 100% chinese systems. there is a pak-china co-mktg company formed which will handle all orders. pak will get its share of the exports proceeds. PAC-Kamra will remain dedicated/foccused on JF-17 production for the PAF till such a time when sufficient numbers have been inducted in the PAF. why? because Kamra has a capacity issue (30/year).

 

[Arsalan]

so does it means no or very litterl money comming our wasy through the project??

actually i hoped that who ever gets the order and where ever the planes are to be manufactured, both countries will pay half of the cost and thus the profit will also be evenly shared, thats how it could have worked for us!
first of all the intrested countries would prefer to get the planes from china rather that pakistan and even if someone order it to us, we wont be able to make it coze of capacity issues at Kamra!!

isnt the situation harming us??
what do you think?

regards!

 

[PAFAce]

so does it means no or very litterl money comming our wasy through the project??

actually i hoped that who ever gets the order and where ever the planes are to be manufactured, both countries will pay half of the cost and thus the profit will also be evenly shared, thats how it could have worked for us!

I've said it before, the profit will most likely be evenly shared, but the revenue will not. The cost of manufacturing the plane is not shared, but the project cost is, therefore, the agreement most likely has the profit as 50-50 (or close). It's simple math, really.

Regardless of whom the countries buy from, the project is still a joint-venture. The orders will most likely go to China because they can provide planes, but Pakistan will get its share. In short, the Chinese will pay their bills, we'll will pay our bills, and what is left will be divided. Bottomline is, if this plane is successful, we'll be successful, regardless of what the "Made In" tag says.

Ofcourse, all this may change once the we start manufacturing a large part of the plane ourselves. It may also change if one of the three parties (China, Pakistan and the customer) decide to redesign parts of the plane.

 

[Gucci Juice]

let me say this again...

How are that many jf-17s going to be built?

i think production line is booked until 2015-2017