A lie repeated often becomes truth---- the west used this trick to Xinjiang

[nang2]

This actually make sense. You cannot afford to have a portion of your population pledging loyalty to some lunatic religious leader who one day may become powerful and order its followers to go against the government.

This is exactly what happened in Malaysia.

Back in the 80s in Malaysia, there was such a religious group call Al-Arqam. Their membership grew to about 200,000. The surprising part was they consisted of many educated Malays including engineers in the company where I worked. In fact they could set successful business and even factories even without government assistance.

The production supervisor reporting to me was also one of them. He wear a turban and long green robes to work. I remember he complained to me that the dance routine by an external dance group during our Annual Dinner and Dance was immoral.

Well in the 80s they became aggressive and went against the government. And Al Arqam is now history.

Al-Arqam - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Quote"
Challenges to the state[edit]
In 1986, the religious authorities was alarmed by Ashaari's book Aurad which claimed that Prophet Muhammad and the four caliphs not only could be met in a dream but also could be confronted physically and consciously in the real world.[17] The government's Islamic Developmental Department (Jakim) argued that some facts and arguments were misleading and could jeopardise the beliefs of the Malaysian Muslims.[17] The National Fatwa Committee proscribed the book in 1998.[18] The ban turned into a political controversy when Ashaari refused to abide by it and challenged the decision.[17]

That is the exact reason why Chinese government banned FaLunGong after FaLunGong demonstrated its power of rallying people, although those people were mostly middle-aged, disfranchised Chinese, many of who went with FaLunGong because they couldn't afford medical services. Certainly not because FaLunGong is some "evil cult".

Throughout the history, powerful religious leaders were always suspected by the state, China or else where.
However, the state doesn't have to go against it directly before these leaders go political. There is a lot of competitions among religious groups. If one is getting too powerful, the jealousy or fear from other groups will check it. In fact, before FaLunGong was banned, many religious groups in China were already against it. FaLunGong "flourished" largely because its disguise as QiGong and Chinese government sanctioned it while oppressing other religious groups. In another word, Chinese government "helped" FaLunGong grow and later tried to "correct" its own doing. In comparison, FaLunGong never gained stronghold among overseas Chinese who had many other options to choose from.

Another fella said that Chinese government is truly secular. Chinese government, though made up by atheists, is not really a secular government. The state religion has always been communism. Like any other religions, they believe their belief is the ultimate truth. Other people's belief is false and must be eradicated for the greater good. Secular government doesn't mean a government made up by atheists. It means that the government stays out of religious business and is certainly not run by religious doctrines.

 

[GumNaam]

lies repeated over and over again only become the truth when someone is actually "listening" to them. right now, all this west et al's bitch-crying about the uyghur so called "genocide" is falling on mostly deaf ears.

When I say "west et al", know that I mean america and most of europe and NOT Russia. the west et al stand alone and naked in their false propoganda. the major continents in the world including almost the entire asia, middle east, africa and south america are all ignoring and even laughing at this american bitch-crying about the uyghurs propoganda when right smack in front of them, their so called "strategic partner" is literally carrying out genocide against lower caste hindus and other minorities while the west remains silent. sure, there is japanese and australian support, but both of them combined have a population that is less than Karachi so big wupty do, they might as well shut up and sit down instead of embarrassing themselves by being america's cheer leaders. the west et al is heavily out numbered, I would highly suggest to the blinken and biden dynamic duo to seek public support from the penguines of Antartica. maybe they would listen. cuz right now, the ratio of those are taking west et al bitch-crying seriously is 1:100000, meaning for every 1 white person that takes this crap seriously, there are 100000 who are either laughing at it or downright ignoring it.

 

[striver44]

lies repeated over and over again only become the truth when someone is actually "listening" to them. right now, all this west et al's bitch-crying about the uyghur so called "genocide" is falling on mostly deaf ears.

this deaf ears are some of the most wealthy, militarily advanced, high tech nations on earth.

Xinjiang deniers on the other hands are autocratic despots, economical failure on top of a starving population. think about Cuba.

 

[GumNaam]

this deaf ears are some of the most wealthy, militarily advanced, high tech nations on earth.

Xinjiang deniers on the other hands are autocratic despots, economical failure on top of a starving population. think about Cuba.

dude...it took piddly little tarrifs on just the agricultural industry of this so called "most wealth, militarily advanced, high tech nations on earth" to bring trump down to his knees while China actually picked up on production. don't think too highly of neither your wealth nor your military power which can't even stop China's expansion into the south China seas, they are building artificial islands with military bases left right and center. and I wouldn't talk about economical failures with a starving population if I was you...

so why don't you take the advice of one of your own and...

 

[striver44]

dude...it took piddly little tarrifs on just the agricultural industry of this so called "most wealth, militarily advanced, high tech nations on earth" to bring trump down to his knees while China actually picked up on production. don't think too highly of neither your wealth nor your military power which can't even stop China's expansion into the south China seas, they are building artificial islands with military bases left right and center. so why don't you take the advice of one of your own and...

really?? let's just see how things unfold, 3 months ago this kind of coordinated sanctions on China would be out of question.

insults to the so called China "core interest" will pick up in intensity , more FONOP as well as Taiwan strait run are on schedule.

 

[GumNaam]

really?? let's just see how things unfold, 3 months ago this kind of coordinated sanctions on China would be out of question.

insults to the so called China "core interest" will pick up in intensity , more FONOP as well as Taiwan strait run are on schedule.

cooridnated "sanctions"??? on what? Chinese "officials"? try and sanction their products...you will have mass anarchy on the european and american streets. you saw a glimpse of that last year that sent trump hurdling down on the Chinese shoes. face it...west et al has become consumer driven economies, most of the jobs are related to sales of products made in China or Chinese services...China is a manufacturing and export driven economy where it exports far more to nonwestern countries than to western countries.

to fix this, you have to bring manufacturing back. no problem though...just bring your manufacturing back. go ahead, forbid your corporations from setting up factories in China or other nations aligned with China. go on, try it. just try making toilet paper in america. and come back and talk to me when you are capable of paying $20 for a single roll of tissue paper. until then...

 

[Nan Yang]

There is no question about Western media exaggerating everything negative in China. Therefore, usually I just ignore them. However, extremism and radicalism aren't something new. The history is filled with many cases of them, mostly around violent revolts. However, treating "pre-crime" as crime itself is problematic. Innocent people are easily caught in the process.

Of course, you don't want any discontent to find its release in extremism and radicalism and eventually burst out. That is why it is important to release it through some other channels. That is why I believe neither bribery nor oppression work. Bribery encourages unreasonable demands, which could lead to more discontent when demands are not met. Oppression pushes people straight to radicalism, which is fueled by negative sentiments.

But without understanding, it is very difficult to guide discontent through harmless channels. How could you expect atheists to understand religious believers, and vice versa? The only workable solution to begin with I can think of is to connect people on common grounds and leave the rest alone. But CCP isn't keen to the idea of "leaving things alone". They like to manage everything.

Again China being secretive, we do not really know what they are actually doing. What we know is what they have announced.

One is De radicalization. These are likely the re-education camps. These are the most sensitive as they involve people who have been radicalized but has not committed any crime. And China could have err on the side of cautious and maybe a few marginal people could be swept up too.

But this has contained the problem. The killing and stabbing has been stopped dead on its track....For now.
But containment actions are NOT to be permanent. You still have to find the root causes.

And obviously, China have already done extensive root cause analysis.
That is why there are the vocational schools, education centers and poverty eradication programs.

So I think it is too early to judge China now.

 

[nang2]

Again China being secretive, we do not really know what they are actually doing. What we know is what they have announced.

One is De radicalization. These are likely the re-education camps. These are the most sensitive as they involve people who have been radicalized but has not committed any crime. And China could have err on the side of cautious and maybe a few marginal people could be swept up too.

But this has contained the problem. The killing and stabbing has been stopped dead on its track....For now.
But containment actions are NOT to be permanent. You still have to find the root causes.

And obviously, China have already done extensive root cause analysis.
That is why there are the vocational schools, education centers and poverty eradication programs.

So I think it is too early to judge China now.

I am sure they have done extensive root cause analysis. But their solutions show that they haven't found it. Their understanding is all around material well beings. But religious radicals care little about the material comfort. In fact, CCPs should know it well since they were like them when they were struggling for survival. To break religious radicalism, you have to offer a better spiritual alternative. But that is what CCP cannot provide. They are all about materialism. That is I keep saying : Xinjiang is stuck.

 

[OIO]

I am sure they have done extensive root cause analysis. But their solutions show that they haven't found it. Their understanding is all around material well beings. But religious radicals care little about the material comfort. In fact, CCPs should know it well since they were like them when they were struggling for survival. To break religious radicalism, you have to offer a better spiritual alternative. But that is what CCP cannot provide. They are all about materialism. That is I keep saying : Xinjiang is stuck.

There are actually very few hardcore religious people in Xinjiang, but their voices are loud, because foreigners, especially the West, support them. Uyghurs like colorful clothes and flowers. They can sing and dance and are incompatible with extreme conservatism. There are still many ethnic minorities in Xinjiang who are living well, don’t you know?

 

[GumNaam]

There are actually very few hardcore religious people in Xinjiang, but their voices are loud, because foreigners, especially the West, support them. Uyghurs like colorful clothes and flowers. They can sing and dance and are incompatible with extreme conservatism. There are still many ethnic minorities in Xinjiang who are living well, don’t you know?

it's like the chechans who once wanted independence and almost got it thanks to the wahabi financial sponsored by ksA with cia blessings & salafi manpower...they so realized that the wahabis were enforcing their version of Islam which didn't jive well with the chechan sufism approach to Islam, so they turned back to Russia to kick the wahabis out, now almost 50% of the Russian military is Muslim while Chechnya enjoys full autonomy to live & given according to their religious beliefs under the umbrella of the Russian Federation.

and here's why the american lies won't work:

 

[OIO]

it's like the chechans who once wanted independence and almost got it thanks to the wahabi financial sponsored by ksA with cia blessings & salafi manpower...they so realized that the wahabis were enforcing their version of Islam which didn't jive well with the chechan sufism approach to Islam, so they turned back to Russia to kick the wahabis out, now almost 50% of the Russian military is Muslim while Chechnya enjoys full autonomy to live & given according to their religious beliefs under the umbrella of the Russian Federation.

and here's why the american lies won't work:

Islamic extremism is a product of a specific historical period. There are many reasons. There is no doubt that the United States is one of the reasons. At the same time, the United States uses extremism in geopolitics.

 

[GumNaam]

Islamic extremism is a product of a specific historical period. There are many reasons. There is no doubt that the United States is one of the reasons. At the same time, the United States uses extremism in geopolitics.

I believe it was the cia director james woolsey who said that america has never had an ally greater than the wahabis. wahabis are pretty brain dead and extremely easy to manipulate and use to your advantage and that too, for free, they won't take money, heck, they will sirens their own money to do your bidding and even die for it while not even realizing that they are being used as pawns, now that's pretty damn STUPID!

 

[Bengal71]

So the regime definitely failed at teaching you about Muslims, didn't it?
Every Muslim woman covers herself and is required to do so in Islam. Those who don't are either hypocrite or have nothing to do with Islam except to pretend.

So now from having no prisoner camps and no genocide, you are down to arresting Muslim women who cover themselves?
So apparently all those Muslim men and women you have locked up in those places are all wahabi wannabes?


@ Pakistanis in the Forum

So now your Religious covering is outlawed by these Chinkis and your fellow Muslim sisters can't cover themselves in China if they wanted to.

And yet there are some brain deprived amongst you who still question the Uyghur genocide.

There is not much point arguing with the Chinese about this. It's not that they don't know covering is part of modesty of Muslim women and has nothing to do with wahabism or terrorism. They deviate the discussion to that with a motive. The motive is to fool the people around the world and to hide their vile actions. So if you allow them to continue that 'debate', you are inadvertently being a vehicle for their objectives.

With this situation of Xinjiang it's good that the westerners started what they started. The weterners are no good friends of the Muslims, they are liars, cheaters and fraudsters, they commited some of the worst destructions in the Muslim world. They will continue to do to China what they are doing in the name of human rights and increase the heat as much as they can to serve their own purpose of containing a new superpower rival. The side effect of their game of empires against the Chinese is that it will have some good impacts on the lives of Xinjiang Muslims. I don't think the effects have started as yet but don't underestimate the capabilities of the west, they will slowly but surely up the game and the Chinese will feel the pain to the point they will have to make some concessions in Xinjiang, in the forms of giving more religious freedom, reduction of persecution etc.

 

[sinait]

There is not much point arguing with the Chinese about this. It's not that they don't know covering is part of modesty of Muslim women and has nothing to do with wahabism or terrorism. They deviate the discussion to that with a motive. The motive is to fool the people around the world and to hide their vile actions. So if you allow them to continue that 'debate', you are inadvertently being a vehicle for their objectives.

With this situation of Xinjiang it's good that the westerners started what they started. The weterners are no good friends of the Muslims, they are liars, cheaters and fraudsters, they commited some of the worst destructions in the Muslim world. They will continue to do to China what they are doing in the name of human rights and increase the heat as much as they can to serve their own purpose of containing a new superpower rival. The side effect of their game of empires against the Chinese is that it will have some good impacts on the lives of Xinjiang Muslims. I don't think the effects have started as yet but don't underestimate the capabilities of the west, they will slowly but surely up the game and the Chinese will feel the pain to the point they will have to make some concessions in Xinjiang, in the forms of giving more religious freedom, reduction of persecution etc.

Covering for modesty is NEVER MENTIONED.
This is what she actually said.

So the regime definitely failed at teaching you about Muslims, didn't it?
Every Muslim woman covers herself and is required to do so in Islam.
Those who don't are either hypocrite or have nothing to do with Islam except to pretend.

@ Pakistanis in the Forum

So now your Religious covering is outlawed by these Chinkis and your fellow Muslim sisters can't cover themselves in China if they wanted to.

And yet there are some brain deprived amongst you who still question the Uyghur genocide.

Can somebody clarify further if Islam require Muslim women to cover up completely except for the eyes?
I have never found such requirements from public information.
In my younger days, Muslim women didn't even wear scarfs, so this is a recent practice in Singapore.
.

 

[mike2000 is back]

This is the exact reason. To Han they aren't "Us" so "they have to go".

I think we should be careful about our reasoning for such oppression committed by the Chinese in Xinjiang , we should be calling then on their maltreatment and heavy handedness yin handling radicals in Xinjiang. It's easy to go overboard when one have been hit by terrorists instead of keeping a level headed mind and tackling the issue more subtly. We saw the same over reaction when the US was hit hard by the 9/11 terrorists attacks. The US overreacted and launched a bloody war in the middle East to tackle these terror hot beds by invading those countries and toppling the governments in power which only led to more instability and more terrorism which still persists to this day. So we can see that it's easy for authorities to sometimes overact to such issues. The Chinese seem to have done the same in some ways .
However, justifying this by saying the Uyghurs are different ethnically and the Hans are migrating there to dilute their region is ABIT far fetched. Xinjiang itself is part of China that we all know. So it's difficult hold such views when it's part of their country as of now. Except we all stop recognising Xinjiang as part of China, the we can start holding such views.
Since of we want to go down that road, then we might as well say that Indians Hindus are migrating to Muslim state of Kashmir and northeast mongoloid states of India to change the ethnic and religious composition of that region and make it a Hindu state. Same can be said of Catalonia in Spain, Balochistan regions of Pakistan, Kurdish regions of Iran/Turkey and Iraq, Russian's in Chechnya, etc etc.
People on a country should be free to move wherever they want as long it's recognise as part of their country. So I see nothing wrong there .

We should be condemning the government policies and heavy handedness, not this silly talk of "trying to dilute the ethnic makeup of the region.