desioptimist
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Will any turk come and say thanks, we are brothers etc etc.
This love is getting one sided now.
This love is getting one sided now.
A heart warming experience with Turkish people
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Hammy007
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cant say, maybe maybe not
Omar1984
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Turkey is our brotherly country not our lover.
Pakistan is my second home and I am concerned about the internal situation of my second home. Prime Minister of Turkey Recep Tayyip Erdogan
http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...an-turkey-afghanistan-have-common-future.html
Truth Teller
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Trust me dude... Pakistanis love for other muslims/muslim countries is usually one sided.
Not that I have anything against Turks. I've had only good experiances with Turks. And I appreciate all the help they've given us Pakistanis with all my heart!
But I dont understand why Pakistanis get so emotional about relationship with other Muslim countries. Most of the time these "other" Muslim countries dont feel the same way about Pakistanis as many Pakistanis feel about them.
It can be really embarrassing sometimes to see how much Pakistanis suck upto other Muslim countries (especially arabs).
Pakistanis need to wake up and come to reality.
Aside 'brotherhood'. I don't see how useful Turkey to Pakistan, please do serious business btw those countries in mutual. All Turkish do is selling products to Pakistan and making money in profits.
Some Turkish hate Pakistan and its nuclear powers. A bit arrogant.
Some Turkish hate Pakistan and its nuclear powers. A bit arrogant.
S_O_C_O_M
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Why do Turks Like Pakistan?
Wednesday, 16 July 2008
Many statesmen believe in that the states have no friends, but interests. Thats why the number of states which have special relations is few. US-UK relations or US-Israel relations are exceptional. Even in these examples we see that the national interests are more important than the emotional dimension. In this framework Turkish-Pakistani relations have always been special. In spite of the geographical distance and the clear economic and social differences between two countries, Turks have always loved the Pakistanis. Although the Pakistanis are not Turkish origin people, they have always been called brothers in Turkey. Brotherhood between these two countries was something emerged before the family ties between the Turkish Republics and Turkey to be bounded. Like many Turkish people I did not question Pakistans friendship, yet one of the answers I was trying to find prior to my 8 day-trip to Pakistan was the reasons of this profound sympathy. On the Pakistan way, may be first time in my life I wondered why do Turks like Pakistan? I thought whether the Turkish-Pakistani love is delusion or not.
***
I will share my Pakistan notes in the near future, but in this essay I would rather try to understand the main roots of our Pakistan sympathy:
The things I saw in my 2000 km journey, including 5 cities from Karachi-southern coast- to Burban-the very north of Pakistan-, was totally devastating for me and the other members of the Turkish delegation. It is clear that Pakistan has been passing through difficult times in terms of politics, security and economics. My soul and heart were hurt by the level of difficulties these beautiful people face. Besides all that tragedy, I and other members of the Turkish delegation found out something that every visitor to Pakistan experience: Pakistan is certainly the country that likes Turkey the most in this world.
***
In one of the meetings the USAK in Ankara, the Pakistani Ambassador Seyid Iftikhar Hüseyin Shah had answered very positively all our questions and declared Pakistans support for any political problem Turkey faces: For example when we talked about Cyprus issue, terror or any other important topics, all of which he replied: Pakistan would support you. An ambassadors response this fast and impulsive was quite shocking for USAK researchers if it was not suspicious. After seeing the shocked expressions in our faces, Ambassador Shah smiled and looked into our eyes saying Pakistan would always support Turkey, because your country is Turkey, and you are Turkish. We simply understand that Turkey has Pakistans political support in any issue with no hesitation. Such support and ties were naturally unexpected for Anglo-Saxon type educated people like us and it was a surprise for us when we are talking about a so alone country in Europe, Turkey. What is more impressive was that we heard the same replies throughout Islamabad, Karachi and Lahor. All Pakistanis told us that Pakistan would always support Turkey just because you are Turkey, and you are Turkish
***
The first thing I discovered while I was questioning the reasons of this exceptional chum relationship was how lonely Pakistan was. Being stuck between India, Iran, Afghanistan and China, Pakistan suffers a great loneliness. All of Pakistans neighbors are either too problematic, like Afghanistan, or too distant from adopting a close relationship on equal terms with the country. Take India for example, after the British left, it started drawing a profile of Big Brother of the region. Iran, where there are still strong signs of a pursuit for the Persian Empire (or expansion of the Islamist regime?), is no different. On the contrary, Irans intolerable conceit and desire for ideological propagation, makes it almost impossible to create a strong relationship. Afghanistan, probably the most similar country to Pakistan in terms of geography and demography, is now like a fireball and is ready to porch. Inside all the neighbors of Pakistan, the most loved one is certainly China. Because of its support to Pakistan in their relations with India, Chinese relations are special for Pakistanis. The real China is, however, is the very east of the country. Besides, it is fairly hard to imagine a Chinese Pakistani closeness, compared to a one with Turkey. Moreover the relations with the West is also problematic. Although Islamabad Government has always been very helpful for the Western policies against terrorism, Pakistan cannot find a similar support and empathy in the West.
Turkey is certainly the most similar country to Pakistan in the world with its special loneliness. Although it is at the heart of the global issues and has quite strong ties with the East and the West, Turkey is not part of any world in reality. It is sui generis and Turkish people still feel aloneness in the West and in the region like Pakistan. It can be said that this shared aloneness is one of the factors in Turkish Pakistani friendship. Turks can understand the Pakistanis before the double standards of the great powers.
Besides their common loneliness, the historical caliphate is believed to be another reason of the Turkish sympathy in Pakistan. The Ottoman sultans were considered the head of the all Muslims in many countries. Thanks to the Abdulhamid IIs efforts the influence of the Turkish caliphates increased dramatically in the Indian subcontinent. The Turks were considered as a balancing power against the occupying British in India. Therefore Indian Muslims felt themselves very close, even engaged, to the Anatolian Muslim Turks. More strangely, not only the Muslims, but also all other oppressed societies in India felt themselves close to the Ottoman Empire in these years. Including Gandhi, the Indians were all saddened by the declaration of secular Turkish Republic and the cassation of the caliphate chair. They were not against secularism but the evaporation of the Caliphate as they saw the Caliphate as an influential tool against imperialism in India. Despite their sadness, both Hindus and Muslim Indians respected Turkish peoples decision, continued to see citizens of the Modern Turkish Republic as the sons of the Ottomans.
Another factor of the sympathy was unfortunately the turmoil both Turkey and Pakistan experienced, particularly the military coups. The 12 September 1980 Coups General President Kenan Evren for instance was not welcomed at all in the Western European countries. He could only visit or more accurately only welcomed by Bulgaria, Romania, soma Arab countries and Pakistan. The same thing was, of course, true for Pakistan. Turkish officials have always welcomed Pakistanis no matter what their political conditions were.
Turkeys strong support for Pakistan in the Kashmir case has also been a major contributor to the relationship. In spite of the problems with India, Turkey kept to its support and said: just because you are Pakistan.
Although it is a debatable issue, another important point that needs to be mentioned here is the ethnic roots of Pakistan community. The country is clearly affected by the neighboring countries it stuck between. Fingerprints can be seen in its language, religion, culture and in many other areas. Its foods and music are, along with a lot other characteristics, is a synthesis. However, the Turkish signs can only be seen when looked closer. Even physical similarities can be observed. Turkish clans entering the inside of the Indian subcontinent have affected the region so deeply that its fingerprints inherited to the Pakistan of today. In other words, our ties with Pakistanis are not just mental, but we might also, with the help of modern science, observe different aspects of the ties by looking at the genes of our Pakistani brothers. Such a fact would certainly be shocking, but not very unexpected.
More recently, Turkeys immediate help to Pakistan in the earthquake disaster was definitely the most major contributor to the relationship between the countries. All Pakistanis, from government officials to ordinary people, are very grateful for their brother countrys aids. They said that Turkey was there with both volunteers and officials helping them rescuing their people in a disaster which 75.000 people died. Moreover, they told us that Turks also did not leave immediately, but helped rebuilding the devastated country. They were so impressed from this immense help that Imam Abdullah said in a speech he made in Eidgahah Mosque: Pakistan is Turkey and Turkey is Pakistan.
Another recent contribution of the disaster to Turkish-Pakistani relationship is the fact that Turkish Premier, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, was the first leader to visit the country after the great disaster. Showing one more time the importance of timing in diplomacy, that his visit and speech impressed Pakistanis as much as Turkish aids did. Even though he may be aware of the consequences of his visit, Mr. Erdogan certainly did something very important for closeness between Pakistan and Turkey.
The last visit to Pakistan made by Turkish President Abdullah Gul was also important in this context. His visit after the devastating assassination of Benazir Bhutto, which is an incident that almost put the country into a chaos, proved Turkeys support to the country one more time. The message President Gul gave by meeting with all leaders in the country was clear: Pakistani leaders should stop fighting each other and maintain peace and unity in the country. Thanks to the efforts of Turkish ambassador Engin Soysal and his team, Turkey has continued to play a special role in bridging the opposing Pakistani groups. It is clear that almost all Pakistani political parties trust on the Turks. Thats why Turkish diplomats or politicians can organize in a very limited time so many sensitive meetings which affect Pakistani political life.
***
As a conclusion, it seems that Turks have enough reasons to see Pakistan as a brother country. Besides, the heating environment of the Great Middle East also brings countries like Turkey and Pakistan, and other countries affected by the United States policies in the region. The wrong policies of the White House force the regional powers to make more co-cooperation and Turkish-Pakistani relations is no exception.
I will continue writing on our Pakistan experiences. However, for now, I will stop here by telling people who do not believe in Turkey-Pakistan closeness that: We the Turks love Pakistanis because they are Pakistani.
Why do Turks Like Pakistan?
A1Kaid
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Trust me dude... Pakistanis love for other muslims/muslim countries is usually one sided.
Not that I have anything against Turks. I've had only good experiances with Turks. And I appreciate all the help they've given us Pakistanis with all my heart!
But I dont understand why Pakistanis get so emotional about relationship with other Muslim countries. Most of the time these "other" Muslim countries dont feel the same way about Pakistanis as many Pakistanis feel about them.
It can be really embarrassing sometimes to see how much Pakistanis suck upto other Muslim countries (especially arabs).
Pakistanis need to wake up and come to reality.
Good comment, some overly emotional living multi-cellular organisms can be embarrassing the way they get emotional about relationships with other countries. As for Turkiye, I acknowledge Turkiye as a "brother country" but one must always remain sober especially when conducting himself. Now I personally do admire and respect Turkiye it's rich history, people, culture, military, etc and believe Pakistan and Turkiye can have prosperous and mutually beneficial ties. However, there is no need to get wet at the mouth like some people.
As for al-Arabiya I use to have a shred of respect and hope for them, but now I simply find many of them to be pathetic; other harsh words can be used here...
As for Turks traveling to Pakistan, many don't travel there like many Pakistanis they travel West. Even when Pakistan's security situation was better reality is Turks simply don't find Pakistan an interesting place to travel, very few go. Most in-person Turkish-Pakistani interaction is done in western countries. Now I have read of an increase number of Pakistanis traveling to Turkiye...
A1Kaid
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Despite the fact Pakistan is nuclear power and should be leading ROLE MODEL to the World, not turkey under NATO doghouse.
We shouldnt' fall to brotherhood just because good experinces travelling to Turkish....US, Canada, UAE, UK, France are all kinds and hospitality people. Business is business !
We shouldnt' fall to brotherhood just because good experinces travelling to Turkish....US, Canada, UAE, UK, France are all kinds and hospitality people. Business is business !
Omar1984
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Turkey is a gateway to Europe and is doing very well economically even when its not rich in oil and gas like Middle Eastern countries. Turkey can be a good model to follow. And it wouldn't hurt for Pakistan to have more friends even if they are not as useful as China.
Mojnews :: Pak-Iran-Turkey Railway Connects Pakistan with Europe
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