A Glimpse of Chinese EVs: the dominant power to drive the world into the future of transportation

[nang2]

This is a hard question to answer and a very complicated one.

A car's paradigm will shift with time and technology and the surrounding conditions. We know that cars are rarely used when road availability is limited by infrastructure or traffic conditions. Its use rate also changes according to traffic and speed of transport in the car. Basically in my thesis study, the car use rate is always below availability rate and as road clears and traffic improves through lets say road enlarged or more networks, the car use rate increases to immediately fill. However, even then the use rate is much higher than availability rate.

Many planning departments then considered share use autonomous vehicles being the urban car's future. High density living suits this as car spaces are also a cost on development and recreational space. The whole aim is to move towards better efficiency in space and emissions too as by-product to paradigm shift.

A car will develop within 15 years into two very distinct categories or types, first would be the conventional understanding and second will be like those autonomous minibus that carries 7 people or so that has been used in some cities in China for over 3 years now. This is the second category of future car although the form and use may be slightly more different to these existing autonomous cars.

The point is to solve personal transportation problem for lower wealth people and offer similar utility. Private personal car in conventional form where today's consumer values are still going to be the same will remain as main demanded form as these products continue to be affordable to Chinese middle class but poorer people at the moment have only public transport option or extremely cheap cars or second hand cars which cost in maintenance and repairs. Basically there is a market and there is a planning requirement from urban design and emissions.

Networked autodriving is to bring these two categories together with autonomous bus and every other node status and platform. You may think cars and trains and ferries are separate but to integrate all transport forms and nodes together means being able to vastly improve the efficiency of everyone to the point a day in a major city you end up saving 1 million collective hours. Or so the maths suggest at optimal performance. As in you can calculate the gap between observed current conditions and what is possible to achieve. In sense that no individual requires any wait above let's say arbitrary 10 seconds between nodes and platforms. A person who needs to use his shared auto vehicle to get from his apartment to train station with connection required to go to rural town can do it without waiting for the train and this train and all users requiring a seat on this train is optimized where they arrive together and the entire city's journeys are calculated so that just the right number of people need to arrive at this station without overcrowding it and the system distributes a collective optimal solution to all user.

My language is poor so explain and honestly this requires maybe 50 pages to explain properly but I hope you understand the general idea. It isn't to say all users who need this will overwhelm one service. It is to balance the whole thing and only a properly integrated system provides the foundation for this but the software algorithm solution is the brains and already this is solved in China. Even the computing hardware to run this AI is pretty much ready. What is missing is the implementation of the scale and each node and platform to be upgraded to even be able to take this on. By 2025, more EVs will be used and these OS will be more in trial.

I think a potential blind spot of your research is to simply look at the cars for transportation purpose. Before cars were invented, there were transportation vehicles. Car brought in something new. I think missing that "new" part is to miss the whole point of having cars. For many people, owning a car means a sense of freedom and independence. Networked car, by itself, won't damage that. Much like networked computers. But networked autodriving will certainly do. If someone else can decide, not just suggest that you take another route or slow it down or speed it up, where would be your sense of freedom? In addition, when some hacker gets control of my networked computer at home, it is bad but not the end of the world. Getting control of my running vehicle could literally mean my end of the world.

 

[serenity]

Right but we were just talking theory. Of course what you raised are valid for some people but you must know that the theory hasn't considered the hacking and that side of stuff since that is another topic from the transport theories.

 

[nang2]

Right but we were just talking theory. Of course what you raised are valid for some people but you must know that the theory hasn't considered the hacking and that side of stuff since that is another topic from the transport theories.

This is not just a theory. Network security is a real issue, one of many reasons why my company's security division is booming.

 

[Jf Thunder]

Exporting from here is easy, I can deliver FOB Karachi to you but you have to handle customs clearance on your side. If you are talking about dealership, PM me, I can make a few phone calls for you.

the problem actually lies with the custom clearance from this side
I'll have to first contact some custom clearance agents from this side as well.

your offer is highly appreciated !

 

[ILC]

I agree. They have much more resources than other newer Chinese competitors but have not translated advantage into greater market share.

They hold one of the three main battery technologies that lead in the battery field (CATL being the one that holds the other two which is best performance and sodium battery) but BYD's blade technology is considered also a great advantage and at least shows that BYD has something to offer this industry that is unique and sought after.

But for EV car sales BYD just really needs to have better managers who understand the whole market and consumers better. Their designs are simply not as good as Xpeng, Hongqi, NIO for middle to high ends and they also seem to not be much better than smaller brands in lower end although it seems this is something they are improving and going to start dominating.

All this is really too early to judge BYD. It's only been around 5 years of really developing and selling EVs. I think we will see BYD take a greater low end market share and beat out more nimble small players but small players will be nimble to fill gaps BYD will be the main one. For mid to high end, they really need to get new designers and UI designers even if they're products are okay and as good as western competitors they are not as good as NIO and XPeng. NIO especially really has the best UI around. No other car maker offered AI assistant that is totally integrated since two years ago. But all these major makers will soon receive internet of things integration with new designs for city traffic management and autonomous driving.

Right now autonomous driving is individual car and not networked and integrated with rest of city and cars on the road, after 2025 there will be much more improvement in this respect since more cars will be EVs and the developers by then will want to work with these makers to integrate everything.

You're bullshitting. NIO is no one next to BYD. BYD makes everything, what NIO makes? Tesla at least has it's own factories. NIO == JAC. Also your previous posts about BYD being expensive are laughable. BYD Han is 250k RMB, small Dolphin about 100k RMB. I would take BYD Han over any NIO invention.

 

[letsrock]

That is certainly interesting. Solving poverty is fairly easy. You just do whatever most people do. Getting rich means you need to do better than most people.

Solving poverty is straightforward but not easy. China certainly organized a billion plus people effectively to do it. But prosperity - especially quick prosperity is neither easy nor straightforward.
Theoretically china state guided route can work. But we have seen some practical difficulties where chinese companies lost like half a trillion dollar with few govt announcements not significant policy changes.

 

[Stranagor]

Great Wall Motors to launch a new brand: Saloon Tech Z

Reading Time: 2 minutes
Zhuzha Osheng

October 26, 2021

1
Great Wall Motors launched many brands in last years.

Five subbrands are not enough for GWM, so they are about to launch the sixth one. It is called Saloon Tech or Z brand, Chinese name is 沙龙智行. It will be a premium brand with a focus on fuel cells vehicles (FCEV). Autohome says that Z brand is not a new brand directly belonging to Great Wall Motors but will belong to Saloon Tech. It is worth mentioning that Great Wall Motors will release the information of the new brand at the Guangzhou Auto Show. Therefore, the Saloon Tech Z brand is expected to be officially released on November 19, the opening day of the Guangzhou Auto Show, together with its first model.

Great Wall Motors planned the Saloon Tech in 2020 and transferred Wen Fei, the former general manager of the Haval brand, to the CEO of the Saloon Tech. Fei is fully responsible for all management work. Saloon Tech will adopt two routes of electric and hydrogen energy. The first model or C-class hydrogen fuel cell SUV is expected to be launched in 2021 and will go on the market in early 2022. In the future, it will focus on the market of more than 300,000 yuan (47,000 USD).

What is “Z brand”? Mu Feng, vice president of Great Wall Motors, previously said that this is a new brand developed based on the Great Wall DHT hybrid platform, which will focus on PHEV models. In other words, this new brand can be considered as a hybrid EV brand belonging to Saloon Tech, with an internal code of “Z.” However, Haval and Wey’s brands have also applied the DHT hybrid platform.
It is worth noting that Great Wall Motors has registered trademarks such as “Soul,” “Great Wall Soul,” and “Mobile Soul.” Perhaps the new model under the Saloon Tech project will be named Soul.
Great Wall Motors has four brands: Haval, Great Wall Pickup, Wey, Ora, and Tank. Do you have your favorite? Because the thing with GWM is you can love it or hate it but never be indifferent. Just look at this cute ORA Punk Cat Beetle copycat or their batshit crazy SUV. Great Wall Motors has no systematic layout in terms of luxury electric vehicles, and the Saloon Tech will make up for this gap.

Source: Autohome, iNews

 

[nang2]

Solving poverty is straightforward but not easy. China certainly organized a billion plus people effectively to do it. But prosperity - especially quick prosperity is neither easy nor straightforward.
Theoretically china state guided route can work. But we have seen some practical difficulties where chinese companies lost like half a trillion dollar with few govt announcements not significant policy changes.

That is a common misunderstanding and also reveals the tragedy of human beings (BTW, I view human existence as a tragedy by large). China didn't ORGANIZE a billion plus people to solve poverty. The government simply ALLOWED them to do it themselves in their own ways. It is not some action China government did. It is the non-action that worked. People naturally think governments have the obligation to improve the economy and the standard of living. They often miss that the governments are often the very reason why poverty exists in the first place. People naturally try hard to improve their own situation. It is often the prohibitions and oppression from governments that prevent people from dragging themselves out of poverty.

And the delinquency of a government aggravates it, too. Government is supposed to maintain peace and uphold justice against any aggression that harms people's lives, liberty and properties. Very few government of countries in poverty does this fundamental governmental job to an acceptable degree. Any countries where the governments actually do will see poverty lifted in no time. No need to focus on the economy.

 

[Kai Liu]

Seems like MG is doing very well in the overseas market with its 3 EV models:

 

[Stranagor]

BYD sold 81,040 NEVs in Oct, up 249% from a year earlier

From January to October, BYD's NEV sales were 418,600 units, up 212 percent from the same period last year.

cnevpost.com

BYD sold 81,040 NEVs in Oct, up 249% from a year earlier-CnEVPost
(Graphic by CnEVPost)

 

[serenity]

Wow BYD's investors must be happy.

 

[jamahir]

I would like the Chinese middle class people on this thread salivating over the obsolete and harmful idea of privately-owned personal transport cars however much "self-driving" it becomes, and contribute to this thread of mine.

 

[GS Zhou]

I would like the Chinese middle class people on this thread salivating over the obsolete and harmful idea of privately-owned personal transport cars however much "self-driving" it becomes, and contribute to this thread of mine.

sell your idea to India please. Don't ruin this thread that is dedicated to the development of electric cars in China only. Thanks.

 

[jamahir]

sell your idea to India please. Don't ruin this thread that is dedicated to the development of electric cars in China only. Thanks.

Yeah yeah, keep on with your obsolete American ideas like skyscrapers and electric cars.

 

[GS Zhou]

Yeah yeah, keep on with your obsolete American ideas like skyscrapers and electric cars.

We have our own choice of lives, incl. private electric cars with high levels of autonomous driving capabilities.

Sell you ideas to India please. Not here.