A 2015 warning to Pakistan and Turkey by UAE taking shape in 2017.

[I.R.A]

One can not support or take side when Muslim fighting another Muslim, it's better try to stop violence and bring them to negotiation table.

Deep inside this fight is not a Shia Sunni fight.

Pakistan can't take sides because of domestic fall out.

So people of Pakistan have already chosen sides then?

 

[MastanKhan]

Let them be there the advocates of UAE are only degrading Iran but not being able to show a positive approach that UAE had made to Pakistan. The thread was about UAE behind Turkish Coup and increasing Indian support, for Pakistan not killing Yemenis, but instead they advocate against Iran being bad this shows a clear solution If UAE goes to India we should move towards Iran. Tit for Tat. They advocate UAE India relations being alright and Pakistan Iran relations like Pakistani are going to commit a crime. Best way to put a slap on UAE's face is to go for Iran. It is a country size of a peanut and they dare to threaten Pakistan. They should realize they cannot defend them selves from houtis and India or USA will not defend them from Iran. USA will only bomb from air on ground Iran will end the peanut pick country. They need Pakistan for their security.


Look at this post it shows a clear propaganda for Pakistan to stay away from Iran and Increase the hate. The GCC just sold Palestine to Israel and do you think we can expect any support from them for Kashmir.

"Jinhoon nay Masjaid-e- Al-Aqsa Yahood ko beach de woh Kashmir ka khoon ki qimat kiya khaq bharain gay.
Uthat Pak fauj ka jawan apni bandooq Abar main hai munafiqat bhari"

Khamenehi says Kashmir oppressed


have nose-dived this month as Supreme Leader Ali Khamenehi listed Kashmir along with Palestine, Iraq and Afghanistan as places where Muslims are brutalized by occupiers. The Indian government sent two very public signs of its displeasure. First, it summoned Iran’s senior diplomat in New Delhi to a dressing-down. Then, India abstained at the UN when a resolution criticizing Iran’s humanrights conduct came up for a vote. In the past, India has always supported Iran by voting nay on those critical resolutions. But India did not go so far as to vote for the resolution. There have been critical editorials in the Indian media, but, on the whole, the reaction to Khamenehi’s remarks seemed remarkably subdued considering how sensitive the issue of Kashmir is inside India.
http://iran-times.com/khamenehi-says-kashmir-oppressed/

Hi,

The GCC did not sell palestine to anyone---the palestinians sold it themselves.

In the 91 gulf war---SArafat joined with Saddam even after being told from all the other gulf countries not to---.

Arafat walked out of Camp David because the israelis had agreed to give him 80% of his demands---he walked away---today---palestine does not even have 10% of what the siraelis were agreeing to---.

Before the second gulf war---Palestine was thriving---economy was good---there was a sort of peace---then came the Iranian backed parties into Palestine---2nd gulf war came and palestine againt joined with Saddam---.

Since then---palestine has been destroyed peace by a piece---iran has destroyed the infra structure of Palestine---..

Yasser Arafat destroyed Palestine during his last days---Abbas has taken it to the end---.

So---don't blame the GCC---they tried their best---they brought up Camp David---Arafat was a gambler to the end---.

Palestine is not a Pakistani Issue but Kashmir is..

whatever they these arabs do with Palestine is not our business.. but Kashmir is our Business and they never abandon us on this Issue..

As for Iran you might have to see the 1980s and to learn how Iran bought weapons from Israel worth of billions..
The Planes without any mark were used to fly in and out of Iran...

Hi,

And the train loads of weapons that we sent them during their war with iraq---.

Iran owes us its very existence to our weapons supply---loaded goods trains with ammunition were heading into Zahedan station from pakistan all the time---.

 

[CriticalThought]

Don't try to compare Apples with Oranges to prove yourself right.

One can not support or take side when Muslim fighting another Muslim, it's better try to stop violence and bring them to negotiation table.

Pakistan can't take sides because of domestic fall out.

Sir, the Yemenis are not our loving brothers either. Just recently a PN ship has been sunk near yemen. Our problem is, such disastrous events are shoved under the carpet so the reality never comes to light.

Our reason for not getting involved with Yemen is the multi-pronged war we are fighting in our own home. If GCC were willing to enhance our capabilities such that we could raise further battalions to fight a foreign war as well, we should have gone for it.

This 'muslim fighting muslim' is nonsense. We helped them against Iraq as well. We helped Taliban against Northern Alliance. And we are ourselves fighting against TTP who recite the Kalimah (except their Takfiri views make the matter very sensitive and complicated).

 

[Well.wisher]

Iranians and Saudis both need to getlost . We're not your slaves that we're going to fight your war . Fight in your countries with your own people . Fack off . The hell with your sects .

 

[TacOps]

Your post shows you don't have any self esteem and can sell mother for money, try to learn about International relation and how things are done then open mouth about topics.

Highly surprised that positive rating is given to his stupid post. @Horus @Oscar @waz @WebMaster please look into it.

Decision on Yemen war was first good sovereign decision of Pakistan, we are not mercenaries' or slaves of GCC or anyone else. They are angry because they had to spill their own blood to get their objective as their so called servant has refused to do so.

Mate you need to understand that ultimately nations survive on economics, not uncalled for chest thumping or declarations of sovereignty.

And as far as economics go Pakistan has a comparative advantage versus GCC states when it comes to manpower and military might. We had the ability to capitalise on that and we didn't. It was a bad economic decision. We spend billions every year not on industry or infrastructure but on our military (for valid reasons), so it's completely logical to use it for generating revenues which otherwise would have come through the real economy.

That brings us to two points which seem to be repeated here:

- We are stretched right now: I agree, but the parliament didn't vote that let's join and re-strategize the timing of the proposed incursion, they voted for a public and outright refusal. Joining could have made conditional upon resources to strengthen the numbers or putting pressure on India to back off too which would have helped with the stretch.
- Broken promises from GCC: Not sure about the history but if its so, that just reflects poor dealmaking.

I think regardless of what people think (being neutral or siding with a side is better), we should all agree that UAE or the GCC siding with India is a bad turn of events for Pakistan. Discussions should also focus on how to rectify it.

 

[I.R.A]

we should all agree that UAE or the GCC siding with India is a bad turn of events for Pakistan. Discussions should also focus on how to rectify it.

I have an idea well lets print this comment of an indian on pamphlets and distribute in every corner of GCC

10 nukes are enough for Pakistan ... What will Indian army do with remaining 90 nukes? Will they Strike Mecca Medina and 1.5 billion muslims ?

 

[Winchester]

Hi,

You have put it in some 4 lines that I could not explain it in pages---.



Hi,

Tariq Bin Ziayad also sold his mother---and so did Yousuf Bin Tashfin---.

Many a times Khalid Bin walid had to sell his mother as well---.

The emiratis sold their mothers as well---when they hid some missile tests for pakistan in the 90's and the saudis have always sold their mothers as well for many a decades for us pakistanis---.

The Turks sold their mothers as well when they joined the germans---and the americans sold their mothers when they joined the allies during WW2---.

The thing is ---the reason you refused---it was out of genetic cowardice---.

Name one conquerer of india from punjab in the last 500 years---the birth place of majority of the pakistan generals---.

The Ottomans joined the Germans in WW1 and then what happened??

Gave a chance to other European powers to carve the Ottoman empire up after the betrayal of these very same Arabs. If it wasn't for Ataturk we would have seen no Turkey today.

The Turks kept a neutral position with a slight tilt towards the Allies in WW2 and guess what, they came out unharmed after the War.

And then using the example of American involvement in WW2.....Are you seriously comparing the Houthis with the Nazis???

As for your last comment about no Punjabi general.....Ranjeet Singh was born right here in Gujranwala, not the same religion but very much the same blood or the genes.

All your points are ballaliyan as we call them...either comparing apples with oranges or just misrepresenting facts.

Hand on heart, the intention is NOT sectarian baiting, but to share my thought process: we have been hurt x number of times in the past, why do we think it would be different thus time? Also, if you re-read the post, I am saying we would need a masterstroke to get benefits. I am open to the policy of working with Iran, I am reminding everyone of the dangers involved, and I remain open to logical criticism.



Sir, really hard to do. Neutrality on this thread is more a matter of how others perceive one's intentions. Just the fact that our actual history is mired with sectarianism means talking with a historical context can come out as sectarian.

If any one feels offended with what I have written, please engage me in a constructive discussion and let's see where we go. Thank you.



There are limitations to Indian 'diplomacy' as well. A diplomatic masterstroke from India would be befriending China to an extent that China plays neutral in India/Pakistan dynamics. They are unable to do so.

Indians are opportunists and they are grabbing opportunities wherever they find them. They simply have no basis for discord with Iran and GCC, so reaping the benefits. To an extent that both GCC and Saudi Arabia are willing to look away from things like Gujrat massacre, Babri mosque, Kashmir atrocities etc. But then again, everyone also have their eyes closed on Palestine.

Our problem is non-uniformity of policy and inability to get the point across without causing damage. Different govts have had different pro/anti Iran and pro/anti GCC leanings so no one can look at us as reliable partner. With the Yemeni debacle, we were unable to articulate that we are embroiled in a multi-front war at home which is consuming our resources. A very good outcome could have been start of discussions on how we can jointly increase our capabilities so we can handle two simultaneous wars at home and abroad. Unfortunately, we didn't even have that discussion.

Saying Shias are actually Jews out of Arabia is not logic. It shows your mind has been moulded a certain way and you see everything through a sectarian prism. You lose focus on facts and think about every little thing through that prism.

Some who are more lost than others walk into a Imam Bargah and than blow themselves up, convinced that they are righteous and actually killing jews and rabid dogs.

Its a slippery slope !

 

[Basel]

Deep inside this fight is not a Shia Sunni fight.



So people of Pakistan have already chosen sides then?

If you read my post then you will now that answer, but you haven't read my post carefully before responding.

Pakistan is on no ones side when it's Muslim fighting another Muslim, Pakistan have always tried to stop fighting war between Muslim countries for example Iraq, Iran war.

Sir, the Yemenis are not our loving brothers either. Just recently a PN ship has been sunk near yemen. Our problem is, such disastrous events are shoved under the carpet so the reality never comes to light.

Our reason for not getting involved with Yemen is the multi-pronged war we are fighting in our own home. If GCC were willing to enhance our capabilities such that we could raise further battalions to fight a foreign war as well, we should have gone for it.

This 'muslim fighting muslim' is nonsense. We helped them against Iraq as well. We helped Taliban against Northern Alliance. And we are ourselves fighting against TTP who recite the Kalimah (except their Takfiri views make the matter very sensitive and complicated).

Kindly prove prove regarding bold underline part of your post. @Rashid Mahmood please share your expertise about the above claim.

 

[CriticalThought]

Saying Shias are actually Jews out of Arabia is not logic. It shows your mind has been moulded a certain way and you see everything through a sectarian prism. You lose focus on facts and think about every little thing through that prism.

Some who are more lost than others walk into a Imam Bargah and than blow themselves up, convinced that they are righteous and actually killing jews and rabid dogs.

Its a slippery slope !

Except I have heard this from a valid religious scholar. I wouldn't say such a thing if I didn't have a very solid source on it. If you read my words, the sentence begins with 'According to some scholars'.

But you are right. In our religious books, there are opinions that range from extreme anti-Shiite to extreme pro-Shiite and everything in between. I for one do not follow anyone who says 'Walk into an Imambargah and kill'. No one has the right to take the law in their own hands like this. It is indeed a slippery slope, but hopefully one that the mods will ensure we don't fall on.

 

[wiseone2]

Hi,

They don't have leaders who are petty thiefs---looters and plunderers----.

They don't have leaders who go to washington DC---to white house and sell their country and soul to get the backings of the U S.

indian leaders are not angels. some of them are not petty thiefs - they are big ones
they do not sell their soul to get the backing of the USA. Score one for democracy

 

[Khafee]

The emiratis sold their mothers as well---when they hid some missile tests for pakistan in the 90's and the saudis have always sold their mothers as well for many a decades for us pakistanis---.

And the Iranians sold out AQ Khan at the drop of a hat.

Any which way you look at it, an Alliance with Iran is going to get you "messed up," (to put it very very politely)

If you haven't learned from Palestine, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and Yemen, you never will.

Best of Luck!

 

[BHarwana]

Any which way you look at it, an Alliance with Iran is going to get you "messed up,"

What good did alliance with UAE brought to us??????????????????????
Ans: UAE troops marching in India over the grave of Kashmir, when Kashmiris were having a black day UAE was marching along side India. Wow. Munafiqat is what we get from UAE. So it's time to take chances with Iran.

 

[New World]

And the train loads of weapons that we sent them during their war with iraq---

Yes, because we wanted to have a good relation with iran under Mulla regime same as we had with Shah

Iran owes us its very existence to our weapons supply---loaded goods trains with ammunition were heading into Zahedan station from pakistan all the time---

yet they betray us just few years later..

 

[New World]

For UAE hedging its future by pouring $76 billion in india and for Iran cozying up with India against Pakistan which is twin of Madinah Tayyabah. Literal meaning of Madinah Tayyabah is "Pakistan". Not a coincidence!!
Al-Baqara 264:
"His example is like that of a smooth stone upon which is dust and is hit by a downpour that leaves it bare. They are unable anything of what they have earned. And Allah does not guide the disbelieving people".

Pakistan is the Supplication of "Rasul Allah". He said, "I feel cool breeze from Hind".

can you further explain the bold part..

 

[The Eagle]

UAE with India is pure business and every country does so in the national interest. However, a military march is a bit over w.r.t. our old relations and India being our Rival though anger is valid if it is depending upon NO Call over Yemen subject. Moreover, there are plenty of Pakistanis that still living in the UAE and are still going there for the jobs/earning and on other hand, our business elite has been spending in Dubai as well. It depends that how farther UAE-Indian relations may go in future and to what extent but one thing that IMO, we shouldn't be facing a greater threat of such nexus except a business rivalry in subject of UAE.

There are chances that UAE Business Elite did not like the idea of Gwadar as well due to creating a tough competition in this region. UAE may be pulling out or would be less interested w.r.t. economical activities in Pakistan but all these things are related to economical level and changing policy which do not represent the public sentiment, military to military contact at all and we should keep both as separate while discussing the diplomacy. If UAE holds that much grudge as particular or selective mindset/international forces are trying to paint as such, UAE would have opposed the reported appointment of Gen. Retd. Raheel Sharif as Commander of Islamic Coalition Force being a Pakistani but No. Also, read how USA (Trump) is preparing to go full offensive against Iran and may impose more sanctions than before so what a few trying to prove through articles and running campaign to avail an opportunity, should think that we are not involved that deep with Iran but purely related to our diplomacy.

The time when we avoided and said No to Yemen theater, IMO, was actually the call of time because I am sure, beside our hands full with internal security issues and Zarb-e-Azb, there was great threat of further sectarian violence-launching of people like Uzair, Ladla etc in Karachi to sabotage the moment at best and so also, we should not forget MQM allegiance to R&AW and mostly fueling Sectarian Violence and providing home to killers (either fake or not but most favoured to Shia side) side more effectively against Sunni Clerics and targeting them in Karachi. People like Faisal Raza Abidi, Haider Abbas Rizvi and many more have been doing such works in past same as like we had our hand full of killers in the name of Sunni side.

Also, (friends must not mind here but the same is a fact), actually it was PTI & PPPP pressure to not to go in favour of UAE/KSA in Yemen. I am not passing a verdict here or want to be judgmental though everybody can express his/her view but, PPPP is more of pro Iranian mindset and the shape of PTI in Karachi seems to be the same that currently paying less attention to politics in Karachi/Sindh. I have these observations just because I do care more about Pakistan than PMLn, ANP, PPPP or PTI or Jamat etc, I mean any political party.

UAE going to India, indeed hurts a bit (in account of UAE Military march in Delhi) as compare to anyone else dealing as such but still, it was our call and we have to stand with it for the time being rather than cursing UAE like this. We need to remember the good old days and still, it doesn't mean that we may sell out to Iran in rivalry and anger against UAE or may risk our internal security at all.

IMO, the sectarian threat was created more effectively once the Afghan war was done and I again apologize to the people that may not like it but as I said I do care for Pakistan, the Iranian Regime did not like us a lot and there are many reasons. We are hated by Arabs but the reasons are less in weight when it comes to the damages and funding to the factions inside Pakistan done by Iranians as well. I am sorry, but Iran has been housing more Indians than their presence in Afghanistan. It is pertinent to mention here that there is no hate between people to people contact either Iran-Pakistan or UAE-Pakistan but state policies are different than what seems to be when it comes to Iran-Pakistan.

Yes, we share a border with Iran and we need good relations on diplomatic level to have a comfort zone and ease at one of our borders that may release the burden of security and we can concentrate more to the hostile border area. We need to differentiate between state policies, the games played behind the curtains or in shadows and our personal likes/dislikes. State policy and Pakistan Diplomatic approach is to have equal relations with every country especially that we share border around and it is the same reason that during KSA/ARABS-Iran high times, Pakistan (PM and COAS) was the only country that visited both parties to calm the situation. Even, recently Gen. Retd. Raheel Sharif, reportedly expressed few conditions to take over the Islamic Coalition Force Command as to include Iran & Iraq as well so our approach is to have better ties with every country.

Also, Iranian policies became offensive against us just because of our growing love in Arab World and especially, our support and open declaration for the security of Holy Places that also holds a part in today's situation and without going into further details, the shape of region, the world and all is based upon every party's religious and faithful approach that individually, are pursuing their own path per belief.

IMO, (if) Arabs started to support us against Iran and there was a call from our end that we should not play angel here. Yes, the growing sectarian threat that mostly but slowly was supported from Iranian new ruling government in those times and Intelligence read it well in time but I think, idea was not to go offensive openly but to deal it the way things raising the head hence, an opponent faction to deal with growing evil. Once, the A threat is done and dealt accordingly now we are cleaning the other self created faction that whatever it is left with. We need to believe that nothing was going unchecked but we were not in position to do so by ourselves and such factions were needed in those times to deal with many things that we couldn’t do so by ourselves. Like we needed a support in Afghanistan hence, both Iran and Arabs helped a lot however, the side effects were that we are still dealing with the same cancer though we are close to shut the remaining doors and windows of either factions.

The media warfare/the cheerleaders/the misinformation brigade have to understand that for us, it is still Pakistan first and if we can have a bit of heated arguments and temporary conflict with Arabs than what make them think that we will spare or discount someone else when it comes to our National Interest. The dynamics of geo-politics are changing rapidly but at the moment, we have less threat from UAE in Baluchistan and Karachi as previously done by India and Iran combined. For us it is still Pakistan first and such propaganda articles wouldn’t work to divide the nation against either UAE or Iran. We are not importing either Iranian ideology in new formed love nor we are going to be influenced by GCC style governance at all though rival can try as much as it can to create rift/distance among Arab World and Pakistan or Iran on diplomatic levels but will be failing miserably. IMO, the painted growing love of Iran & Pakistan is more of an attempt by a force to prove us as anti party in Arab world and to damage the bridges between Countries that we must understand. Pakistan-Iran contacts are based upon only National Interest and cannot damage our relations with rest of the countries or anyone.

(If I have hurt the personal feelings of anyone, I apologize however, above stated are my observations and are based in light of Pakistan first)