9\11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB

[Vassnti]

A Few FACTS

Try actually looking for facts .

New details of missing foreigners have pushed the number of people believed missing or dead in the rubble of the World Trade Center to 6,333 today as President Bush (news - web sites) urged prayers of support for the victims of the terror attacks.

The swelling number was largely due to new possible victim lists submitted from abroad, said New York Mayor Rudolph Giuliani (news - web sites) on Thursday.

Citizens of 80 countries were missing and presumed dead in the disaster, Bush said in his address to Congress on Thursday night. More than 130 were Israeli citizens and more than 250 were citizens of India, he said.

Rescue workers today struggled with thundershowers and had to temporarily halt their work early this morning as a lightning storm made it hazardous to work near shattered metal beams.

Although no one has been found alive since Sept. 12, the day after two hijacked airplanes crashed into the World Trade Center's twin towers, city officials were not officially transitioning their mission from a rescue to a recovery operation.

But during a radio address on WABC today, Giuliani admitted that few people, if any, were likely to be alive under the rubble of the World Trade Center.

"The chance of recovering anyone alive is very, very small," he said. "We're not going to recover significant numbers of people. We know that. We recognize that."

New York Fire Commissioner Thomas Von Essen told Reuters his workers had made an unofficial transition from a search for survivors to a search for human remains today.

"It's really happening in a normal kind of a transition that I think is acceptable to everybody and the best way for us to get this done," he said.


An 'Eerie Pompeii'

As emergency workers arrived at the site to replace the exhausted overnight crew on a grim, gray morning, the mood among workers was resolutely hopeful.

So far, 241 bodies have been recovered, but only 170 have been identified by the coroner's office. The dead include 37 police officers, 32 firefighters, two emergency medical technicians, two Port Authority employees and one New Jersey firefighter. The number of injured stands at 6,291

Foreign Nationals Add to List of Missing in Terror Attack

 

[ptldM3]

I debunked this controlled demolition nonsense long ago.

A Few FACTS Proving WTC demolished using explosives!

Yea like it's that easy, lets take a look at how demolitions work. The 500 Wood Street Building's demolition was 1/3rd the height of one wtc tower. It took 1,590 charges for 11 levels and two (2) months of prep work with another 7 days to place the charges. The charges that were used were shaped charges, these charges are attached directly to steel columns, meaning demolition experts would have to strip and gut much of the interior just to get to the columns, so are we supposed to believe that no one in any of the three wtc's noticed anything suspicious like the interior being gutted or explosive charges being placed everywhere around them or miles of cable being strung around the building?

1.Pyroclastic clouds are formed

You have no idea what the relationship between a Pyroclastic cloud and a demolition is, in fact I’m willing to bet you didn't know what Pyroclastic was until you read it on some conspiracy forum. The wtc's were also not stripped prior to their collapse like real demolitions are, meaning they created an immense plum of dust.

2.Secondary explosions caught on cam Before collapse

Oxygen tanks were abandoned by the NYFD in and around the wtc . Moreover, gasoline tanks exploded in WTC 7 due to falling debris.

3.Squibs seen at reinforced points of Towers

Show me so I can further debunk your claim.

4. Lobbies of Towers destroyed Before collapse

This is utter nonsense, the only lobbies that were Inaccessible were the ones in and around the impact zone--and yes I would imagine they would be destroyed after an airliner plowed through

5. Fell under 10 seconds

Did you expect each previous floor to hinder the progress of the floor before it? I take it you are not familiar with kinetic energy?

6. No evidence of Pancaked floors

No evidence? The manner in which the towers fell was a pancake effect. Further steal columns were found to have bent up to 45 degrees and more, in a demolition shape charges blow steal columns apart or destroy welds/rivets greatly minimizing bends.

7. Molten Metal Found At ALL 3 Towers

Aircraft aluminum melts--very easily; moreover, buildings often have some form of aluminum that will melt if temperature permits, in the case of the wtc the temperature did indeed permit.

8. Giant Steel Columns Blasted Hundreds of Feet Away

demolition technicians remove all windows prior to demolition, in the case of the wtc no such thing was done, as a result of that pressure build up and expelled debris--this is exactly why windows are removed. Moreover, the height of the WTC's being as tall as they were insured that some debris would travel a long distance. Than again you are probably overexagerating when you say 'hundreds of Feet Away'.

9.Fires Burned for Months

Lets say they did, what does this have to do with a demolition?

10, 1100 Bodies Unaccounted For

That's because they found 20,000 pieces of body parts many other bodies were burned up.

11.complete Destruction speaks 4 its self

Ignorance speaks volumes too.

REALLY Investigate 911!

I suggest you do the same but this time stop listening to rumors.

The 5 Israeli mossad who were filming on 9/11 from before the time the first jet hit a tower to beyond the time the second jet hit a tower. They danced and shouted and applauded as each jet hit.

How do you now they were Mossad? Did they give out their business cards?

the more than 200 Israeli mossad who were all quietly deported to Israel all around the 9/11 event.

Post a credible link.

the nanothermite that was used to bring down all three buildings.

Busted first you claim there was explosions now you claim that so called 'nanothermite' was used. Make up your mind.


That thermite rumor was started when pictures of steel columns cut at 45 degrees were circulated. However, just like with all crazy 9-11 claims it too was busted when pictures appeared showing clean up crews cutting those 45 degree cuts.

It takes an idiot to believe that some bearded cavemen got into a plane and flew it into the WTC.

I flew my first plane a age 9. BTW you would think the hijackers would all be Iraqi but no they were Saudi of all countries, if i recall correctly the US did not invade Saudi Arabia did it?

 

[r3alist]

Once again i will demolish your argument, and this time for good:

dont know who you are but you sure like weighing in and making a straw man argument, 2 on 1 makes no difference here, still the same old lies and rubbish coming from the both of you!


apparently you think i do not believe it possible for anything to survive in the building - what else are you but a liar?

of course there will be masses of remains............OF THE BUILDING



and please cite your sources for your pictures, you as well gambit.

This is why his argument should be best describe as deceptive. He demands no less than an exact match and the absent of said match, there is a 'conspiracy'.

is this a common trait of debunkers - that they start smearing, keep it civil, where did i say there was a conspiracy?

you yourself said that the event of the hijackers passport surviving was a likely event ROFL then why is there no similar event if its so likely and why is it such a problem to talk about it?

 

[gambit]

you yourself said that the event of the hijackers passport surviving was a likely event ROFL then why is there no similar event if its so likely and why is it such a problem to talk about it?

Yes there are...

Flight 93 crew material - September 11: Bearing Witness to History

Quite similar, eh?

 

[r3alist]

and just for the record i dont believe things like every jew knew about 9/11 or none died - although i am sure that wont stop people attributing that to me!!!

 

[r3alist]

Yes there are...

Flight 93 crew material - September 11: Bearing Witness to History

Quite similar, eh?

errr this is a completely different flight and crash- i am not sure whether you have given up or just making a parody of your own arguments!!!

please talk to me about compressive forces and how they propel objects of different weights and masses.

i liked that theory better - so where was the passport, in the hijackers pocket?

 

[gambit]

errr this is a completely different flight and crash- i am not sure whether you have given up or just making a parody of your own arguments!!!

please talk to me about compressive forces and how they propel objects of different weights and masses.

i liked that theory better - so where was the passport, in the hijackers pocket?

Nooo...Am poking fun at your argument. Not just me but the world who is laughing at you. In every aircraft crashes, there are always small personal items that survived -- intact -- but their owners did not. So if we go by your 'different flight' argument, every crash that has remains, humans or otherwise, must be suspect......You are living in a fantasy world.

 

[r3alist]

Nooo...Am poking fun at your argument. Not just me but the world who is laughing at you. In every aircraft crashes, there are always small personal items that survived -- intact -- but their owners did not. So if we go by your 'different flight' argument, every crash that has remains, humans or otherwise, must be suspect......You are living in a fantasy world.

but where was the passport - in the hijackers pocket?

 

[gambit]

but where was the passport - in the hijackers pocket?

You do not have much critical thinking skills nor travel much, do you? Some carry their documents on their persons. Some in briefcases and stow them in the overhead compartments. Some leave them in their jackets but do not wear their jackets. For the hijackers, what difference does it make? They are going to die anyway. American lives are their passports to the Islamic afterlife. If anything, the fact that we found one hijacker's passport in the WTC area mean that it probably was not on the person, hence its survival from the crash increases.

 

[Chogy]

I kind of doubt the hijackers made sure they had their passports with them before crashing through the cockpit door...

Where would that leave them? Luggage? In a jacket? I can't believe the bulk of your theory lies upon a found passport.

Once again, the debate falls into minutia. For those lacking vocabulary, that means "small, insignificant things" in this case. Step back, and think on the WHY. I'll post my position again. Address these instead of a passport and magical nano-thermite. I've never heard a decent reply to these, and I've posted this on more than one conspiracy thread.

Q: What sort of conspiracy and attack is most likely to succeed, AND remain secret?
A: A simple plan that results in mass casualties. Importantly, IT MUST INVOLVE AN ABSOLUTE MINIMUM NUMBER OF CONSPIRACISTS. As the number of people involved rise, the likelihood of a leak increases exponentially.

Q: Does the 9-11 attack, when viewed/executed as a secret conspiracy involving government agencies, satisfy this? Is it simple? Does it involve few people?
A: No. Not even close. It would have been an enormously complicated plan involving hundreds if not thousands of people; pilots, demolitions experts, missiles, tens of tons of planted explosives in one of the busiest area in the world. Air traffic controllers. Pentagon officials. CIA/FBI.

Q: What would a simpler and more effective plan be?
A: Release of nerve agents in a shopping mall or sports stadium. The nerve agent "cannisters" are found, and chemical analysis and metallurgy determines the source to be (pick whatever nation you want to attack).

I'd suspect that if Al-Quaeda had a ton of VX nerve agent, they'd have done exactly what I described, instead of hijacking aircraft.

Finally, if a horrific attack is somehow "needed" prior to invading a country, why choose Afghanistan as the target, a resource-poor nation? And why didn't they fake another attack to justify Iraq, labeling Saddam as the "evil mastermind" behind it?

 

[therecanonlybeone]

Hundreds of thousands of New Yorkers thought they saw a third light beam emanating from Ground Zero on Sept. 11, 2010. Two light beams have shown skyward on the 9/11 anniversary for several previous years, memorializing the lives lost in the Twin Towers. But this year, thousands were astounded to see a third beam. Many called their local media, asking about it. They generally were told it stood for the third building that collapsed, Building 7.

A news release was issued to the New York City metro area by "Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth" through PRNewswire on Sept. 11, 2010. The explanation stated the third beam was to shine light "on the fact that the official story of what happened at Ground Zero simply cannot be true and that a new, truly independent investigation is needed. This new investigation is needed both as a matter of national security and as the key to real justice for the victims of the Twin Towers

PRNewswire reported later this news release received the second highest number of viewers on their website that day. Yet mainstream media said not a word about this the next day. If the media didn't report it, does that mean it didn't happen?

Dwain Deets

Encinitas

 

[ptldM3]

dont know who you are but you sure like weighing in and making a straw man argument, 2 on 1 makes no difference here, still the same old lies and rubbish coming from the both of you!

The difference between my arguments and your arguments is that my arguments are backed with links, verifiable claims, and reasonable assertions. Your argument, on the other hand, are full of 'how' and 'why' with the occasional foolish claim such as black smoke equals oxygen deprivation and that the passport had a magic trajectory because it landed 'several block away', let me educate you, a passport will not fall like a rock, on the contrary, it will travel with the wind but most importantly it will 'flutter and tumble'.

I will explain with physics and my source will be the American institute of physics.

Physics News Graphics: Flutter and Tumble

Now to break down your 'straw man' claim.

Despite gravity's undeniable attraction, not all falling objects travel straight downwards: the piece of paper you drop in the hall or the tree leaves fluttering

How paper falls to the ground is a process impossible to describe exactly with the laws of physics. If you drop an 8 1/2" by 11" sheet from the top of your desk, it is nearly impossible to predict with certainty exactly where the paper will land. This is because paper falls through air. Air is a fluid, the term in physics to describe any gas or liquid. And the behavior of any fluid can be incredibly complex

This is why you looked extremely foolish when you made your claimed the passport's trajectory was magical and then questioned how it 'landed several blocks away' as if someone put it their.

Continued....

The equations for the motion of a fluid, known as the Navier-Stokes equations, relate the velocity and pressure at each point in the fluid for each instant in time. The equations also depend on the given values of density and viscosity of the fluid. The effects of the velocity on itself lead to a sort of feedback effect that makes the problem infinitely complex after a short amount of time. Put somewhat more concretely, this feedback effect gives the equations a "nonlinear " property: Small changes in the velocity at one point in the fluid will affect the overall velocity distribution of the fluid in a way that quickly becomes unpredictable over time.

In short the pressure from the blast made the flight path unpredictable. Also notice the equation is nonelinear, meaning based on calculations and probability the passport will travel several blocks especially when you consider the starting altitude of decent.



continued...

Furthermore, tiny, inevitable uncertainties in knowledge about the starting conditions of the fluid quickly add to the unpredictability. This is why mathematics cannot exactly predict weather patterns, and it's also why they cannot exactly describe the relatively simpler question of the path of a sheet of paper as it falls to the ground. So all physicists can hope for is to approximate the behavior of the air around the sheet of paper.

Both I and Gambit covered this.

Now to illustrate the 'flutter and tumble effect':




The trajectory isn't so magical anymore is it?

apparently you think I do not believe it possible for anything to survive in the building - what else are you but a liar?

Do not play games, this is exactly what you are implying especially when you use phrases such as, "completely against the odds".

of course there will be masses of remains............OF THE BUILDING

Seems like you are still in denial even after I posted photographic evidence of personal belongings that were inside the aircraft and did survive. All of these items were documentations from passengers onboard the aircraft and not remains of the building. Can I be more clear?



Let me quote one of your earlier posts:

to ensure we are comparing apples with apples please ensure that it is something within the plane, preferably made of paper and intact after the explosions and inferno.

I was able to produce paper evidence that survived the crash, yet you still have not conceded, I even explained why something such as a passport can survive due to minimal or no exposure to fire based on the objects velocity and a brief exposure to the fire as well as insulation in the form of a briefcase or pocket and your magical trajectory claim has also been debunked with physics.

and please cite your sources for your pictures, you as well gambit.

If I can find them again I will.

is this a common trait of debunkers - that they start smearing, keep it civil, where did I say there was a conspiracy?

You are implying there is a conspiracy by dismissing evidence, and not just the passport but also about the fire and how it was not hot enough to melt or weaken the wtc due to 'oxygen deprivation' from black smoke. It's very clear which side you chose.

 

[therecanonlybeone]

View of a Military Expert:

Why the Towers of the World Trade Center collapsed
The airplanes did not a have true effect on the destruction of towers; they were needed to give an excuse for odd Orwellian wars at the same time when the USA is turned into a police nation, like the German Third Reich, to some extent. The towers took the impacts of crushing Boeing 767's. The towers were originally built to take impacts of Boeing 707's, which are approximately of the same size and was widely used in the 1970's.
Fires that kindled from the fuel in the planes were too shortlasting and weak to be able to severely damage the structure of the skyscrapers. Even in the extreme situation, the heat from a kerosene fire cannot threat the durability of a steel trunk. With the temperature of carbohydrate fires that reaches only 825 °C (approx. 1517 °F) steel weakens at 800 °C (approx. 1470 °F) and melts at 1585 °C (approx. 2890 °F). In the skyscrapers of the WTC the surroundings were not at all ideal as there were far too many steel columns and they led heat away from the burning area. WTC 1 burned for 102 minutes and WTC 2 for 56 minutes only. A fire burning much longer, from 10 to 20 hours, could slowly increase the burning temperature down to perhaps 1100 °C (approx. 2010 °F). Provided there is more substance to burn, such a fire will damage concrete and irons, but not severely heavy steel constructions.


In mid-February in Madrid, the Windsor Tower (left) burned for over 20 hours, which led to a fire stronger and hotter than that in the WTC, but even the collapses of the Windsor Tower caused by the very strong and long-enduring fire were minimal and limited to the upper floors. If either of the WTC tower had started to collapse because of fires the collapse would have been limited to only a few of the floors and then stopped.

The impossibility of a gravitational collapse is closer seen in other documents. A collapse would produce large pieces, and does not explain reports of fine dust from concrete, huge amounts of dust and pieces of steel ejected outwards.
Destruction of the towers by explosions is clear according to the photographs and reports of the eye witnesses.

 

[nForce]

View of a Military Expert:

Why the Towers of the World Trade Center collapsed
The airplanes did not a have true effect on the destruction of towers; they were needed to give an excuse for odd Orwellian wars at the same time when the USA is turned into a police nation, like the German Third Reich, to some extent. The towers took the impacts of crushing Boeing 767's. The towers were originally built to take impacts of Boeing 707's, which are approximately of the same size and was widely used in the 1970's.
Fires that kindled from the fuel in the planes were too shortlasting and weak to be able to severely damage the structure of the skyscrapers. Even in the extreme situation, the heat from a kerosene fire cannot threat the durability of a steel trunk. With the temperature of carbohydrate fires that reaches only 825 °C (approx. 1517 °F) steel weakens at 800 °C (approx. 1470 °F) and melts at 1585 °C (approx. 2890 °F). In the skyscrapers of the WTC the surroundings were not at all ideal as there were far too many steel columns and they led heat away from the burning area. WTC 1 burned for 102 minutes and WTC 2 for 56 minutes only. A fire burning much longer, from 10 to 20 hours, could slowly increase the burning temperature down to perhaps 1100 °C (approx. 2010 °F). Provided there is more substance to burn, such a fire will damage concrete and irons, but not severely heavy steel constructions.


In mid-February in Madrid, the Windsor Tower (left) burned for over 20 hours, which led to a fire stronger and hotter than that in the WTC, but even the collapses of the Windsor Tower caused by the very strong and long-enduring fire were minimal and limited to the upper floors. If either of the WTC tower had started to collapse because of fires the collapse would have been limited to only a few of the floors and then stopped.

The impossibility of a gravitational collapse is closer seen in other documents. A collapse would produce large pieces, and does not explain reports of fine dust from concrete, huge amounts of dust and pieces of steel ejected outwards.
Destruction of the towers by explosions is clear according to the photographs and reports of the eye witnesses.

Now who is this naive military expert????

lol...Firstly,the mass is not the factor here,momentum is.While your military expert claims that the towers could with stand a crash of Boeing 707,he fails to mention the velocity of impact.

Secondly,let us assume that this guy is right about the temperature reached due to the fires.Surely it will not melt the steel.But the load carrying capacity will be massively reduced.You know by how much??More than half.It has been repeated many a time in this thread.Refer to the previous posts.

Thirdly,the example about the Windsor tower just shows ignorance.
It was destroyed by pure fire,no airplane hit it.It was just gutted by fire.But the WTC towers took massive hit from jumbo jets which were almost filled with gallons of aviation fuel.

 

[building7]

Take a close look at the manner in which WTC 7 collapses straight down. For the building to collapse in this fashion, all of the load bearing supports would have had to fail at exactly the same time.
The claim that the collapse was the result of a fire requires the fire be equally distributed throughout the entire floor of the building, providing equal heat for an equal amount of time, so that all the load bearings members would fail at the exact same moment.

yes building 7 was a controlled demolition.