9/11: PENTAGON AIRCRAFT HIJACK IMPOSSIBLE

[pkd]

9/11: PENTAGON AIRCRAFT HIJACK IMPOSSIBLE

FLIGHT DECK DOOR CLOSED FOR ENTIRE FLIGHT

(PilotsFor911Truth.org) - Newly decoded data provided by an independent researcher and computer programmer from Australia exposes alarming evidence that the reported hijacking aboard American Airlines Flight 77 was impossible to have existed. A data parameter labeled "FLT DECK DOOR", cross checks with previously decoded data obtained by Pilots For 9/11 Truth from the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) through the Freedom Of Information Act.

On the morning of September 11, 2001, American Airlines departed Dulles International Airport bound for Los Angeles at 8:20 am Eastern Time. According to reports and data, a hijacking took place between 08:50:54 and 08:54:11[1] in which the hijackers allegedly crashed the aircraft into the Pentagon at 09:37:45. Reported by CNN, according to Ted Olson, wife Barbara Olson had called him from the reported flight stating, "...all passengers and flight personnel, including the pilots, were herded to the back of the plane by armed hijackers..."[2]. However, according to Flight Data provided by the NTSB, the Flight Deck Door was never opened in flight. How were the hijackers able to gain access to the cockpit, remove the pilots, and navigate the aircraft to the Pentagon if the Flight Deck Door remained closed?[3]

Founded in August 2006, Pilots For 9/11 Truth is a growing organization of aviation professionals from around the globe. The organization has analyzed Data provided by the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) for the Pentagon Attack, the events in Shanksville, PA and the World Trade Center attack. The data does not support the government story. The NTSB/FBI refuse to comment. Pilots For 9/11 Truth do not offer theory or point blame at this point in time. However, there is a growing mountain of conflicting information and data in which government agencies and officials along with Mainstream Media refuse to acknowledge. Pilots For 9/11 Truth Core member list continues to grow.

 

[xdrive]

News and facts from a conspiracy website is NOT actual facts. It is usual made up bullshit.

Either post stuff from a credible source OR DO NOT POST AT ALL.

 

[Huda]

yes it is impossible zaid hameed is rite thats a big game from america and isreal

 

[gambit]

9/11: PENTAGON AIRCRAFT HIJACK IMPOSSIBLE

FLIGHT DECK DOOR CLOSED FOR ENTIRE FLIGHT

(PilotsFor911Truth.org) - Newly decoded data provided by an independent researcher and computer programmer from Australia exposes alarming evidence that the reported hijacking aboard American Airlines Flight 77 was impossible to have existed. A data parameter labeled "FLT DECK DOOR", cross checks with previously decoded data obtained by Pilots For 9/11 Truth from the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) through the Freedom Of Information Act.

On the morning of September 11, 2001, American Airlines departed Dulles International Airport bound for Los Angeles at 8:20 am Eastern Time. According to reports and data, a hijacking took place between 08:50:54 and 08:54:11[1] in which the hijackers allegedly crashed the aircraft into the Pentagon at 09:37:45. Reported by CNN, according to Ted Olson, wife Barbara Olson had called him from the reported flight stating, "...all passengers and flight personnel, including the pilots, were herded to the back of the plane by armed hijackers..."[2]. However, according to Flight Data provided by the NTSB, the Flight Deck Door was never opened in flight. How were the hijackers able to gain access to the cockpit, remove the pilots, and navigate the aircraft to the Pentagon if the Flight Deck Door remained closed?[3]

Founded in August 2006, Pilots For 9/11 Truth is a growing organization of aviation professionals from around the globe. The organization has analyzed Data provided by the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) for the Pentagon Attack, the events in Shanksville, PA and the World Trade Center attack. The data does not support the government story. The NTSB/FBI refuse to comment. Pilots For 9/11 Truth do not offer theory or point blame at this point in time. However, there is a growing mountain of conflicting information and data in which government agencies and officials along with Mainstream Media refuse to acknowledge. Pilots For 9/11 Truth Core member list continues to grow.

Just as how you have been proven wrong about those Iraq 'rape' images...Here we go again with another embarrassing episode for YOU...

s01

A flight data recorder (FDR) data frame is the order of the words that are transmitted from the digital flight data acquisition unit (DFDAU) to the digital FDR (DFDR) each second over many seconds (see ARINC 717 for additional information). Most FDR system data frames are made up of four subframes within one superframe. For a 64-words-per-second (wps) FDR system, a DFDAU will output 64 12-bit words to the FDR each second, where each word typically contains the value of an analog parameter. The order of the words (for example, word number 12 of the 64 words) within a subframe, as well as the order of the subframes, define an FDR data frame. This order is important to understand in order to decode the data recorded in the DFDR.

Some Boeing airplanes have two data frames, because one data frame in an FDR system with a capability of 64 wps cannot accommodate all of the world's regulatory requirements. By comparison, the 777 FDR system can handle 128 wps. In order to meet the new rule from the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) that requires recording of 88 parameter groups by August 18, 2002, FDR systems on Boeing airplanes will handle 256 wps.

Note the highlighted.

If I open up my own flight data recorder data (FDR) copy of American Airlines Flight 77, the one that crashed into the Pentagon, in csv format, with this terminal command:

less aa77_fdr_data_frame_layout.txt | grep -A 1 'Subframe' | less

I would receive something like this...

Notice we have subframes 1, 2, 3, 4 and 1234.

Now here is how Boeing layout the FDR data...

For the readers' benefit, I have presented the important subframe 3 word 251 but with different bits. There are 256 words per frame as specified in the file's header...

Database Editor Summary Report.
For database \\10.149.236.25\adi\fdv\db\757-3.db.
1110 parameters in report.
256 words per subframe in database.
Created Wed Oct 24 15:11:58 2001

Also note the sampling frequency.

So what Boeing does is use word 251 subframe 3 for different parameters BUT AT DIFFERENT TIMES AND BITS. For brevity's sake I have FLT DECK DOOR and FWD CARGO DOOR together to show how the recorder works. In the raw FDR data file these two parameters are far apart. Obviously, we cannot poll different parts of the aircraft at the same time with the same word, right?

Here is another example of how the FDR record different parameters at different subframes with different bits...

And when we put the raw FDR csv file into a readable format, we have something like this...

That mean the cockpit door status, column CI titled 'FLT DECK DOOR', is polled at the quarter of a second mark at every fourth second.

That mean it is possible for a pilot to open the cockpit door, leave the cockpit and close the door in less than three seconds to take a restroom break. Or to get something to eat. Or to be friendly and chat with the passengers to provide good public relations.

That also mean the hijackers can also convince the crew to open the cockpit door, enter the cockpit with a hostage, and close the cockpit door in less than three seconds.

And the FDR would NOT have an 'OPEN' or bit 1 in its entry for every situation above.

How many here have entered their home's bathroom in less than three seconds when his bladder is full of beer? Anyone who is a frequent flyer and can get a seat in the forward section of the ship will notice the cockpit door open and close quite often. It is absurd to believe that for a continental or transoceanic flight that neither pilots will leave the cockpit. So for a hijacking where the intent is to takeover a cockpit and keep the passengers under some form of self-control, it is desirable to keep the cockpit door closed, AFTER it was opened for quick access.

Do not worry, pkd, this post will be deleted, but not by me, to save your face.

 

[xdrive]

Another embarrassing news post by pkd.

lol it's funny how he takes stuff off a conspiracy website and posts it like its fact.

 

[FreekiN]

9/11: PENTAGON AIRCRAFT HIJACK IMPOSSIBLE

FLIGHT DECK DOOR CLOSED FOR ENTIRE FLIGHT

(PilotsFor911Truth.org) - Newly decoded data provided by an independent researcher and computer programmer from Australia exposes alarming evidence that the reported hijacking aboard American Airlines Flight 77 was impossible to have existed. A data parameter labeled "FLT DECK DOOR", cross checks with previously decoded data obtained by Pilots For 9/11 Truth from the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) through the Freedom Of Information Act.

On the morning of September 11, 2001, American Airlines departed Dulles International Airport bound for Los Angeles at 8:20 am Eastern Time. According to reports and data, a hijacking took place between 08:50:54 and 08:54:11[1] in which the hijackers allegedly crashed the aircraft into the Pentagon at 09:37:45. Reported by CNN, according to Ted Olson, wife Barbara Olson had called him from the reported flight stating, "...all passengers and flight personnel, including the pilots, were herded to the back of the plane by armed hijackers..."[2]. However, according to Flight Data provided by the NTSB, the Flight Deck Door was never opened in flight. How were the hijackers able to gain access to the cockpit, remove the pilots, and navigate the aircraft to the Pentagon if the Flight Deck Door remained closed?[3]

Founded in August 2006, Pilots For 9/11 Truth is a growing organization of aviation professionals from around the globe. The organization has analyzed Data provided by the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) for the Pentagon Attack, the events in Shanksville, PA and the World Trade Center attack. The data does not support the government story. The NTSB/FBI refuse to comment. Pilots For 9/11 Truth do not offer theory or point blame at this point in time. However, there is a growing mountain of conflicting information and data in which government agencies and officials along with Mainstream Media refuse to acknowledge. Pilots For 9/11 Truth Core member list continues to grow.

NOOB .......

 

[Nemesis]

Please don't post BS 9/11 conspiracy theories. This kind of stuff is offensive to the memory of the 3000 people who died in the attacks.

PS - Almost all 9/11 conspiracy theories were disproved by Popular mechanics. I can't be bothered to post it. Look it up.

 

[Iggy]

Why are people still reluctant to live in a denial mode??Even Al-Queda took responsibility of the 9/11 attack and there are undeniable evidence to support the hands of Al-Queda behind the attack..Still some people want to believe conspiracy theories than the Hard evidence present ..

 

[pkd]

Just as how you have been proven wrong about those Iraq 'rape' images...Here we go again with another embarrassing episode for YOU...

s01

Note the highlighted.

If I open up my own flight data recorder data (FDR) copy of American Airlines Flight 77, the one that crashed into the Pentagon, in csv format, with this terminal command:

less aa77_fdr_data_frame_layout.txt | grep -A 1 'Subframe' | less

I would receive something like this...

Notice we have subframes 1, 2, 3, 4 and 1234.

Now here is how Boeing layout the FDR data...

For the readers' benefit, I have presented the important subframe 3 word 251 but with different bits. There are 256 words per frame as specified in the file's header...

Also note the sampling frequency.

So what Boeing does is use word 251 subframe 3 for different parameters BUT AT DIFFERENT TIMES AND BITS. For brevity's sake I have FLT DECK DOOR and FWD CARGO DOOR together to show how the recorder works. In the raw FDR data file these two parameters are far apart. Obviously, we cannot poll different parts of the aircraft at the same time with the same word, right?

Here is another example of how the FDR record different parameters at different subframes with different bits...

And when we put the raw FDR csv file into a readable format, we have something like this...

That mean the cockpit door status, column CI titled 'FLT DECK DOOR', is polled at the quarter of a second mark at every fourth second.

That mean it is possible for a pilot to open the cockpit door, leave the cockpit and close the door in less than three seconds to take a restroom break. Or to get something to eat. Or to be friendly and chat with the passengers to provide good public relations.

That also mean the hijackers can also convince the crew to open the cockpit door, enter the cockpit with a hostage, and close the cockpit door in less than three seconds.

And the FDR would NOT have an 'OPEN' or bit 1 in its entry for every situation above.

How many here have entered their home's bathroom in less than three seconds when his bladder is full of beer? Anyone who is a frequent flyer and can get a seat in the forward section of the ship will notice the cockpit door open and close quite often. It is absurd to believe that for a continental or transoceanic flight that neither pilots will leave the cockpit. So for a hijacking where the intent is to takeover a cockpit and keep the passengers under some form of self-control, it is desirable to keep the cockpit door closed, AFTER it was opened for quick access.

Do not worry, pkd, this post will be deleted, but not by me, to save your face.

Ifs , buts, guesses conjectures and surmises - - that's all you have. You came out with very very weak logic. Although there is plenty i doubt in your post but for the sake of argument i take it at face value.

Now you said that between successive interrupts there are 3 seconds right. How a pilot who is yet not fully qualified to fly an airliner gonna know which particulat door is polled at which particular second? And rember just before that particular second he has to convince the cocpit men to open the door. Donnt tell me it was quirk of luck or a fluke because that will further weaken your already twisted logic.

 

[toxic_pus]

Just as how you have been proven wrong about those Iraq 'rape' images...Here we go again with another embarrassing episode for YOU...

Hey, as long as US, Israel and India can somehow be shown in bad light, even if it is for 5 minutes, who cares for embarrassment.

All is fine in this twisted fairyland.

 

[pkd]

[/COLOR]

Hey, as long as US, Isreal and India can somehow be shown in bad light, even if it is for 5 minutes, who cares for embarrassment.

All is fine in this twisted fairyland.

@gambit
OH - - Now you have indian support as well

 

[Iggy]

[/COLOR]

@gambit
OH - - Now you have indian support as well

No PKD we are sick and tired of conspiracy theories..Its an insult to those who lost to their lives to such cowardly attack by those terrorists..

 

[gambit]

Ifs , buts, guesses conjectures and surmises - - that's all you have. You came out with very very weak logic. Although there is plenty i doubt in your post but for the sake of argument i take it at face value.

Now you said that between successive interrupts there are 3 seconds right. How a pilot who is yet not fully qualified to fly an airliner gonna know which particulat door is polled at which particular second? And rember just before that particular second he has to convince the cocpit men to open the door. Donnt tell me it was quirk of luck or a fluke because that will further weaken your already twisted logic.

Am a little surprised that my post has not been deleted. Your protector must be slipping.

Anyway...I got a lot more logic than you do.

First...This is about the claim that it is 'impossible' to hijack the aircraft since the FDR recorded no 'OPEN' status for the cockpit door. We see that this is not the case.

Second...An unqualified pilot does not equate to ignorance or inexperience. To 'qualify' for something mean I must pass an official exam. To reach the final and most difficult examination stage usually a candidate must have passed through previous stages and less strenuous examinations. This is applicable for doctors, nurses, pilots, mechanics, architects, accountants...etc...etc...If I fail the final exam it does not mean I somehow lost everything I learned throughout the education. A normal pilot learn how to take-off, maintain steady flight and land. What need is there for a suicidal man to learn how to take-off, maintain flight, land and pass many exams so he can earn the professional title of 'pilot'?

Third...Why is it improbable that the hijackers, especially the one tasked to fly the aircraft, could gain access to the cockpit at between polling periods?

Fourth...Prior to 9/11, cockpit doors were often not locked. I have flown enough with reserve military pilots who were professional airline pilots in their civilian lives to know that locking the door was at the discretion of the captain. Flight attendants often were allowed to enter the cockpit at their convenience. So all the hijackers had to do was to take the surprise advantage and access the cockpit before anyone can lock it.

See what a little bit of critical thinking skill can get you?

 

[pkd]

Am a little surprised that my post has not been deleted. Your protector must be slipping.

Because this time you didn't try to abuse me.
Last time you thought that just putting an American flag will give you impunity to do what ever you want.

Anyway still you haven’t answered my question. Instead you have changed your line of reasoning. You are moving from pole to pole, hunting with hound and running with the hare.

First...This is about the claim that it is 'impossible' to hijack the aircraft since the FDR recorded no 'OPEN' status for the cockpit door. We see that this is not the case.

How? Answering a question with a self claimed fact.

Second...An unqualified pilot does not equate to ignorance or inexperience. To 'qualify' for something mean I must pass an official exam. To reach the final and most difficult examination stage usually a candidate must have passed through previous stages and less strenuous examinations. This is applicable for doctors, nurses, pilots, mechanics, architects, accountants...etc...etc...If I fail the final exam it does not mean I somehow lost everything I learned throughout the education. A normal pilot learn how to take-off, maintain steady flight and land. What need is there for a suicidal man to learn how to take-off, maintain flight, land and pass many exams so he can earn the professional title of 'pilot'?

Ok fine. Doest this means they have the knowledge about the internals of the aircraft? Every hardware that is being used in the aircraft, every transponder, every actuator, their bit level state. Aren’t you trying to be funny?
Yet my question is there how they were able to sniff the packets to know about the particular second when the cockpit door is to be polled?

Third...Why is it improbable that the hijackers, especially the one tasked to fly the aircraft, could gain access to the cockpit at between polling periods?

In order to be probable, you need to come up with an alternate theory.
Lets for the sake of argument we assume that somehow they were able to access to the cockpit, now how they got the state of polling? Lets say they used some device - - then any proof?

Why these hijackers are more concerned about the state of the door bit rather than their actual goals? When the hijacker group is fool enough to leave behind their passports.

Fourth...Prior to 9/11, cockpit doors were often not locked. I have flown enough with reserve military pilots who were professional airline pilots in their civilian lives to know that locking the door was at the discretion of the captain. Flight attendants often were allowed to enter the cockpit at their convenience. So all the hijackers had to do was to take the surprise advantage and access the cockpit before anyone can lock it.

You spent your entire time in your previous post explaining how the door was kept close. Now instead of sticking to your reasoning you came with another assumption.
Remember the claim of the Aussie programmer is also that the door was kept closed for the entire time and you are debunking this with an assumption. Pity

 

[gambit]

Because this time you didn't try to abuse me.
Last time you thought that just putting an American flag will give you impunity to do what ever you want.

Abuse you? You got suckered by a fraud and I called you as such, just like you got suckered now. You posted images from a pornography source dated 2004 that was used to 'prove' US troops committed rapes of Iraqi women. You dated it as 2009. I posted a genuine news source that admitted they were wrong in not checking their source. My posted was deleted to protect you.

Anyway still you haven’t answered my question. Instead you have changed your line of reasoning. You are moving from pole to pole, hunting with hound and running with the hare.

I did. Too bad you were too blind to see it.

How? Answering a question with a self claimed fact.

And saying that it was 'impossible' is not such?

Ok fine. Doest this means they have the knowledge about the internals of the aircraft? Every hardware that is being used in the aircraft, every transponder, every actuator, their bit level state. Aren’t you trying to be funny?

Having a wee bit of a reading comprehension problem, eh? That was in response to your claim of the hijackers being 'unqualified' to pilot an aircraft. You, like all who posted this sort of nonsense, mindlessly parroted that 'unqualified' to pilot an airliner argument, as if somehow failing a test would prevent someone from committing suicide. Now be reasonable and admit your failure at logic about this.

Yet my question is there how they were able to sniff the packets to know about the particular second when the cockpit door is to be polled?

In order to be probable, you need to come up with an alternate theory.
Lets for the sake of argument we assume that somehow they were able to access to the cockpit, now how they got the state of polling? Lets say they used some device - - then any proof?

Why these hijackers are more concerned about the state of the door bit rather than their actual goals?

They do not need to nor they should they need to. It is YOU who is making the assumption here. My question is: Why is it so improbable that the hijackers would managed to open the cockpit door right at a polling interval? The NTSB, under the Freedom of Information Act, if the cost is less than $14, will provide anyone with these FDR raw data. So why only AA 77? Could it be that with the other hijacked flights the doors did showed 'OPEN' status? Or how about the possibility that the cockpit door status is not even considered for recording? Since when is cockpit door status a necessary item for flight?

Data and voice recording are for post event investigative purposes, whatever that 'event' might be, from the recent pilot distraction where an aircraft missed an airport to a crash. Cockpit door status is only for an investigator to have a guess at what might have happened in the cockpit prior to a crash. If that status is not recorded, then he cannot guess. Some status are more important than others, such as A/P FLAP POSITION or A/P SPD BRK HDL POSN, and it does not require one to be a 'qualified' pilot to have accurate guesses what those initials equals. If there are limited resources, flap handle position is more worthy of recording than cockpit door status.

So why only AA 77?

Look at the date and see for yourself. If there is an FDR revision in 1999, there must be previous revisions and not every items in the latest revision would be in the previous ones. Or perhaps something was in the previous immediate revision is eliminated from recording in the new one.

An example of these revisions is this...

Here is another example of these revisions...

Flight Data Recorder Rule Change

In late 1997 the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) adopted a change requiring an increase in the number of recorded signals for flight data recorders (FDR). This rule change will affect many airplanes that operate under FAA rules, including all airplanes registered in the United States and those in other countries where regulatory authorities use the FAA rules as their own. Boeing is prepared to help operators meet the requirements of the rule change by its effective date, which varies according to each airplane's date of manufacture.

3 Summary and Impact of FAA FDR System Rule Change
The rule change addresses all Boeing commercial airplane models and groups them as follows:

* Airplanes manufactured before October 11, 1991, without an FDAU or DFDAU as of July 16, 1996.
* Airplanes manufactured before October 11, 1991, with an FDAU or DFDAU as of July 16, 1996.
* Airplanes manufactured after October 11, 1991, after August 18, 2000, and after August 18, 2002.

The FAA must evaluate NTSB safety recommendations based on many factors. Two of these are the economic impact of the change and the ability to produce and govern the regulation. Public and private hearings regarding the proposed changes often are held to aid the FAA in this evaluation process. In the 1980s, the FAA established the Aviation Rulemaking Advisory Committee (ARAC) to improve the regulatory process and improve communication between the FAA, airline operators, and manufacturers on new regulations. The main task of ARAC is to work with the FAA to evaluate the many factors resulting in rules that can be technically and economically justified, then feasibly implemented and regulated.

It is not feasible to simply shut down the entire US civil aviation system to implement these changes. Each carrier must evaluate their own operations and make the necessary schedules to modify their fleet. That mean for each revision, there might be some aircrafts that are not modified but are still considered flight worthy. An open cockpit door, recorded in an FDR or not, cannot cause an airliner to crash, but an improperly deployed flap or speed brake could. So which is more important to record in an FDR?

The fact that only AA 77's cockpit door status is presented as 'proof' of a non-hijack should be a red flag for those who are willing to exercise critical thinking skills. Clearly membership in this group is rejected by you.

When the hijacker group is fool enough to leave behind their passports.

Why should they care about their passports after they got airborne? The only times they should care about compromising themselves are when they were trying to gain access to the US and from learning the basics of flying under these aliases. Of course, after the German magazine Der Spiegel did their investigation and found out these were stolen IDs...

Cover Story: Panoply of the Absurd - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International

It make your argument about these passports worthless. Why should anyone care about the security of these stolen IDs?

You spent your entire time in your previous post explaining how the door was kept close. Now instead of sticking to your reasoning you came with another assumption.
Remember the claim of the Aussie programmer is also that the door was kept closed for the entire time and you are debunking this with an assumption. Pity

Say what? Why is 'how the door was kept close' relevant? It is YOU who believed that the hijackers must convince the pilots to unlock and open the door. What I explained was WHY the cockpit door is often kept UNLOCKED. That is no assumption but from experience. As for what that loony conspiracy believer claim, I have already shown how he was wrong. It is upon YOU that we should heap pity.