6 security men, 20 terrorists killed in Lower Orakzai

[janon]

They've got nothing to do it. How pathetic.

Who's the "they" in that sentence, and what is pathetic?

 

[Hiptullha]

Who's the "they" in that sentence, and what is pathetic?

His personal beliefs have got nothing to do with an insurgency. I'm tired of seeing this sort of insolent attitute towards those who don't suscribe to jingoistic chest-thumping.

 

[janon]

His personal beliefs have got nothing to do with an insurgency. I'm tired of seeing this sort of insolent attitute towards those who don't suscribe to jingoistic chest-thumping.

Wait a minute - you think I'm insolent towards him because he is not jingoisic about Pakistan?

And don't try this fallacy of the excluded middle with me. It is not necessarily a binary choice between religious fundamentalism and jingoism - there are plenty of other attitudes to take. It's possible to be patriotic and religious (as most people in India or Pak are), it is possible to be irreligious and patriotic, irreligious and unpatriotic, and many other combinations of varying degrees of either.

Now about your first sentence - actually they do. When his personal belief is shared by many others who are willing to act on those beliefs, you get what you are seeing. Most of the foot soldiers of TTP are fighting because of their religious beliefs, and their desire to impose their religious laws and beliefs on Pakistan. Because they think that the state of Pakistan is not Islamic enough. You are being disingenious if you are pretending that beliefs and worldviews have nothing to do with Pakistan's insurgencies.

That person to whom I commented may not take part in an insurgency - and you would note that I did not hold him personally responsible. I said that the worldview he is espousing is part of the problem. If everybody owed allegiance to the state instead of religion, then there would be no religiously motivated insurgencies against the state. That's tautomerically true.

 

[Bratva]

Area commander who is assigning soldiers to this checkpost is fool of higher order. Today 5 soldiers got shaheed in another attack on this check post. Total soldiers that have been killed manning this checkpost has reached 10-20. 1-2 soldiers got shaheed due to sniper 2 weeks back, 6-10 got shaheehd last week, 5 another died today.

 

[Samandri]

the locals are providing safe heavens to them ...... damn those tribal peoples they are the biggest mess we have in Pakistan

What do suggest, what should be done with them?

 

[Kompromat]

What do suggest, what should be done with them?

They should hand them over, for their own sake.

 

[Samandri]

Lol. Pushtoon tribes... Were fighting thousand year ago. Still fighting and will continue fighting. And no its never their fault,always some one elses. 500 yeas ago infighting and choppinh each others heads. Then 200 year ago fighting sikh hindu and Brits. Now fighting "Phunjabayan".

Its intesting sentiments developing in some kids of Roshnio ka shahar. The thing is, every nation has been fighting for thousands of years, tell me the name of single qaum who have acted gandhi in the human history. In our own islamic history , Hazrat Muhammad p.b.u.h has fought many defensive and offensive battles, sahaba later carried on the conquests. Pakistan has fought 4 wars with india and threaten use of nuke. America bahadur is invading countries left and right.

 

[Samandri]

They should hand them over, for their own sake.

They should hand them over, for their own sake.

If they are powerless to do so?

 

[Kompromat]

If they are powerless to do so?

They are not powerless. Most of the top bastards have been killed with the help from Tribals. The Lashkars have been fighting the TTP since 2004-5. They are among the worst affected cultural group and have made huge sacrifices through vacating the area when the state wanted them to. We owe them the sense of security and if we cant give it to them than we should be ashamed of ourselves!

 

[Samandri]

They are not powerless. Most of the top bastards have been killed with the help from Tribals. The Lashkars have been fighting the TTP since 2004-5. They are among the worst affected cultural group and have made huge sacrifices through vacating the area when the state wanted them to. We owe them the sense of security and if we cant give it to them than we should be ashamed of ourselves!

Only in some areas. For example dawar areas were taken over by Taliban and foriegn militants, they were unable to do any thing about it, they were caught between devil and deep blue sea. On the other hand mullagori tribe didnt need motivation from you to go against taliban and form lashkars, they are bareilwis.

 

[Kompromat]

Only in some areas. For example dawar areas were taken over by Taliban and foriegn militants, they were unable to do any thing about it, they were caught between devil and deep blue sea. On the other hand mullagori tribe didnt need motivation from you to go against taliban and form lashkars, they are bareilwis.

The Tribes were instrumental in breaking the backbone of the Uzbek insurgency in Waziristan. Two of my friends have done multiple tours of duty in Op Zarb-e-Azb. Both of them are from Peshawar and speaking to them gives me an idea that they work much closely with the tribes than i had previously imagined. They told me that there is no way we could have made so much progress without the help and approval from the tribes. I had a long debate with them over the long term strategy to which they responded that our policy is to 'Displace-Clear-Rebuilt-Rehabilitate'.

SISA Study on Uzbek militancy in Pakistan.

 

[Samandri]

The Tribes were instrumental in breaking the backbone of the Uzbek insurgency in Waziristan. Two of my friends have done multiple tours of duty in Op Zarb-e-Azb. Both of them are from Peshawar and speaking to them gives me an idea that they work much closely with the tribes than i had previously imagined. They told me that there is no way we could have made so much progress without the help and approval from the tribes. I had a long debate with them over the long term strategy to which they responded that our policy is to 'Displace-Clear-Rebuilt-Rehabilitate'.

SISA Study on Uzbek militancy in Pakistan.

Good to hear that. This fact needs to be promoted to mainstream.
@rockstar08 read @Horus's post.

 

[Kompromat]

Good to hear that. This fact needs to be promoted to mainstream.
@rockstar08 read @Horus's post.

There is too much adrenaline mixed with youth and too much stupidity and ignorance. If Pakistanis owe the most to one community its our tribes. They defeated Afghanis all by themselves and we've never had to worry about protecting that border. They fought in 48 and wanted to fight in 65 as well. Personally i'm of the opinion that we should no longer have them as a shield. They need to enjoy the perks of increased military power and relative immunity from foreign aggression. Army will induct 15,000 boys from FATA and i believe that will be the catalyst. We need to have better relations with our kin in Kabul, help them in whatever capacity we can to make their political and military more inclusive and sustainable. Though Afghanistan no longer is what it was in 80s for us, we still ought to maintain normal ties and eradicate hostility. We need our FATA youth to be educated and be part of the progress rather than becoming cannon fodder for the state. That is no longer needed as no one in their right mind is going to invade us.

Let's embrace Afghanistan.

 

[Samandri]

There is too much adrenaline mixed with youth and too much stupidity and ignorance. If Pakistanis owe the most to one community its our tribes. They defeated Afghanis all by themselves and we've never had to worry about protecting that border. They fought in 48 and wanted to fight in 65 as well. Personally i'm of the opinion that we should no longer have them as a shield. They need to enjoy the perks of increased military power and relative immunity from foreign aggression. Army will induct 15,000 boys from FATA and i believe that will be the catalyst. We need to have better relations with our kin in Kabul, help them in whatever capacity we can to make their political and military more inclusive and sustainable. Though Afghanistan no longer is what it was in 80s for us, we still ought to maintain normal ties and eradicate hostility. We need our FATA youth to be educated and be part of the progress rather than becoming cannon fodder for the state. That is no longer needed as no one in their right mind is going to invade us.

Let's embrace Afghanistan.

Well said. Thats key to the solution. It was colonial policy to administer FATA and PATA separately from NWFP, time to bring tribal areas to the level of settlement of KPK.

 

[Kompromat]

Well said. Thats key to the solution. It was colonial policy to administer FATA and PATA separately from NWFP, time to bring tribal areas to the level of settlement of KPK.

Well, i have been advocating for FATA to be given a full provincial status. We should maintain their customs and not impose any civil law etc until they are ready for it. I am sure economic development and social integration, raising literacy levels will make FATA very productive. They are hardworking people and if we could arm them with modern tools and education, they will certainly dominate their fields.