5th September, the day nothing happened

[Chinese-Dragon]

This formation looks quite deadly.

 

[Thorough Pro]

finally someone from the neighbourhood found the guts

@WebMaster @horous @Irfan Baloch @Jungibaaz @waz Congratulations on taking the defence forum to new level's.

Credit to this guy for standing out among billion sheeples for speaking the truth

The fun continues across the border - Where Sep 5 is IAF day - The day nothing happened.!!!

A popular tale - apocryphal but grounded in truth - recounts an air force student at the National Defence College asking the librarian where he could find a book on the war history of the Indian Air Force (IAF). Without looking up, the librarian responded, "In the fiction section, Sir."

On September 5, the IAF will launch a year-long commemoration of the 50th anniversary of the 1965 India-Pakistan war, culminating in September 2015, the actual anniversary. There are at least three reasons to stop this self-congratulatory nonsense. First, as the centenary ofWorld War I has illustrated, countries have fought terrible wars without feeling the need for a year-long commemoration. Second, by every independent account the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) convincingly got the better of the IAF. Old-timer pilots frankly confess that 1965 was a learning experience, not a victory. Third, and importantly for military history aficionados, no fighting happened on September 5. Why is the IAF commemorating this day?

The answer is simply that we care little for military truth. India has victories, brave deeds and valorous soldiers who deserve celebration. We have won battles, even wars, handily; and sometimes just by the skin of our teeth. But our voluminous regimental histories firmly reject the gritty reality of war, painting every engagement in the unsullied colours of heroism and triumph.

As the IAF kicks off another round of myth-making, it is worth remembering how little there was to celebrate in those September days when the underdog PAF got the better of the IAF in raid after raid, dogfight after dogfight. This comes not from the fevered imagination of Pakistani jingoists, but from the official Indian history of the 1965 war, which was endorsed on December 31, 1992, by then defence secretary N N Vohra. Yet it was held back and remains classified even today, further burnishing its credentials. Interested readers can access it at www.bharat-rakshak.com/ARMY/History/1965War/PDF/

To set the stage, the PAF in 1965 was a well-trained, American-supplied air force of 17 squadrons (12-16 aircraft per squadron), which included a squadron of F-104 Starfighters, then the most formidable fighter in Asia; eight squadrons of F-86 Sabres; two squadrons of highly regarded B-57 bombers; and a high-altitude reconnaissance squadron of RB-57, including the secret RB-57F photo-recce aircraft that flew at 70,000 feet, beyond the reach of Indian fighters and anti-aircraft weapons. The PAF imaginatively used its two squadrons of light trainers for reconnaissance and ground attack.

The IAF, in contrast, had 48 squadrons, almost thrice the PAF's strength, although six Vampire and three Toofani fighter squadrons were clearly obsolescent. Furthermore, India retained a number of squadrons in the east to guard against China. With Indian quantity offset by the PAF quality, the decks were evenly stacked.

Even so, the PAF was clearly superior in its training and operational doctrines. The held-back history says, "Compared to [the PAF's] elaborate and determined plan of attack, the IAF, it seems, operated on the basis of ad hoc decisions, and in the hope that full-scale war would simply not come."

On September 1, 1965, the IAF launched its first strikes against a Pakistani invasion at Chhamb, near Jammu. Foolishly, 12 obsolescent Vampires and 14 Mystere fighter-bombers were thrown in, which began shooting up Indian tanks from 20 Lancers, which was opposing the Pakistani advance. Twenty Lancers officers recount their relief when the PAF Sabres swooped down on the IAF, shooting down four Vampires. A shocked IAF grounded its Vampire and Toofani squadrons, reducing its strength by one-third. Clearly, this was not a day to be celebrated.

After a quiet September 2, the IAF claimed its first kill on September 3, when squadron leader Trevor Keelor, flying a Gnat fighter, hit a PAF Sabre. The IAF, in need of something to celebrate, announced a "kill" and awarded the pilot a Vir Chakra. In fact the IAF knows that the Pakistani pilot, flight lieutenant Yusuf Ali Khan, nursed his damaged Sabre back to Sargodha air base. Not until September 4 did an Indian pilot, squadron leader V S Pathania, shoot down a PAF Sabre. Perhaps that is the day to commemorate.

The next day, September 5, saw absolutely no action. On September 6, the PAF made its big move, launching multiple strikes against IAF bases to destroy aircraft on the ground and whittle away the IAF's numerical superiority. Indian accounts say 10 IAF fighters were destroyed on the ground at Pathankote, with another three damaged. Separately, hunters became the hunted, when two of the four IAF Hunter fighters patrolling over Halwara air base to ambush incoming Pakistani fighters were shot down by the Sabres when they arrived.

Alongside the PAF air strikes, Pakistani commandoes were airdropped around Indian air bases to launch attacks on the ground. Fortunately, the villagers around Pathankote, Halwara and Adampur captured scores of disoriented commandoes, who had little idea of what to do after reaching the ground.

September 6 was also when Indian troops crossed the border at Amritsar and, taking the Pakistan Army by surprise, reached Lahore's outskirts. The official history recounts that this was achieved without IAF support, a devastating accusation endorsed by noted historian, John Fricker. In his authoritative work, Battle for Pakistan: The Air War of 1965, Mr Fricker writes: "Incredibly, the Indian offensive struggled on without any form of air support, and the IAF did not challenge the repeated ground attack sorties flown without loss by the PAF throughout the day." That evening, battered by the PAF and without a clear plan, Indian troops pulled back from the brink of a war-winning victory - the capture of Lahore.

September 7 saw a debacle in the eastern theatre, where the PAF had only a single squadron of Sabres. Early morning IAF raids on Chittagong and Jessore achieved nothing. However, a retaliatory PAF raid devastated the IAF's Kalaikunda base, in West Bengal, destroying 12 aircraft on the ground.

Thereafter, both air forces went slow, husbanding their strength for a long war. Then the IAF destroyed 43 PAF fighters, while losing 59 of their own. The PAF celebrates September 6 - when it ravaged Pathankote and saved Lahore - as "Defence of Pakistan Day". What does it say about the IAF that it is commemorating September 5 - the day when nothing happened?

@Horus @Areesh @Pakistanisage @Irfan Baloch @DESERT FIGHTER

Ajai Shukla: The day nothing happened | Business Standard Column

 

[Indus Falcon]

This formation looks quite deadly.

You better be scared, very scared

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

You better be scared, very scared

Oh, I am.

It's like a scene out of a horror movie!

 

[Spasha]

Gen Jogindar Singh, the Chief of Staff to Gen Harbaksh Singh, pays tribute to the IAF in following words in his book titled "Behind the Scenes":

"There is no excuse whatsoever for the lack of air support on 6 Sept on the Lahore and Khem Karan sectors. HQ XI Corps could have duplicated its communication system with telephone and the staff at HQ XI Corps and the air component there should have checked and rechecked the air effort earmarked for the 6th morning.

The F echelon of 54 Infantry Brigade was bombed out of existence by PAF (thanks to Sajjad Haider and his men) and enemy guns between Ichogil Canal and Lahore were playing havoc.

Similarly enemy tanks and guns in the Kasur area could have been the easiest of targets for IAF to strike and thus blunt the attack of Pak 1 Armored Div before it got into its stride.

There was no close air support for three days on GT Road and Burki Axis, but a few sorties did go to the aid of troops on the Khem Karan sector. They inflicted no damage on enemy tanks but managed to bomb some railway stations and railway wagons carrying ammunition and fuel.

Two sorties flew over GT axis on the 9th sept morning, and the first aircraft attacked our troops about 6 kms short of the bomb line which was the Ichogil canal (BRB canal). Our ground troops thinking they were PAF aircraft shot down this aircraft from which the pilot baled out. As he declared his identity, he was put in a jeep for evacuation to Military Hospital in Amritsar. The second aircraft attacked this Jeep and that was the end of the pilot, jeep and the driver.

After this episode, the Divisional Commander Major General Mohinder Singh did not ask for Close Air Support for many days and passed a message to the effect that the IAF should keep their aircraft on the Lahore side of the BRB canal otherwise they will be fired at by own troops.

1 Corps needed continuous air support on 8 sept when our own Armored Div started its advance. Similarly reinforcement of Phillora and Chawinda by the enemy from Chamb was neither detected nor attacked by IAF.

GOC in C Western Command and GOC 1 Corps were eagerly waiting for the results of the progress made by the formations, but when the formations were crying for air-support, there was no redressal.

In the meantime our aircrafts started pulling out of forward bases of Pathankot, Halwara and Adampur to Ambala, Hindon and other airfields deeper within country. This resulted in a great wastage of time, fuel and the number of sorties decreased considerably. I got in touch with senior pilots who had withdrawn to the safety of Ambala. I used to give them 2 missions on each corps.

In due course the number of air support sorties decreased even more drastically, since enemy aircraft followed our aircrafts as they were landing at Pathankot and inflicted heavy casualties.

By default air superiority was handed over to the PAF in the combat zone.

The effectiveness of IAF in meeting our demands can be judged from the following:

a. Total number of demands made: 99

B. Demands actually accepted: 32

C. Demands actually executed: 21

D. Number of missions when the ACT was effectively used: 3

 

[Windjammer]

View attachment 254004

@Windjammer. Despite everything the author couldn't resist a bit lying due to his love for his country...

The indians had both mig-21s and Gnats which were superior to PAF's Sabres and Starfighters!

Also the number of kills claimed by indians in total hogwash !

It's obvious, the Indian leadership and historians have been telling so many lies to their public that they themselves have lost the track on figures. In the latest (Revised) history of it's operations, the IAF openly admits that it lost 35 aircraft in first two days of war with devastating strikes against Pathankot and Kalikunda on 6 and 7 September respectively, where as the author in OP is claiming overall IAF losses as 59 ???.... meaning that IAF merely lost 24 aircraft in both air and ground over the next two weeks....... what a farce. In just one day (7th September) during counter attack against Sargodha, IAF lost 9 aircraft, mostly in dogfights.... the rest leaves little to imagination. In any case, the Indians can play with figures but deep down they know and feel what hit them.

IAF takes a candid look at the 1965 war - The Times of India

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

This formation looks quite deadly.

That's to make the enemy laugh to death..

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

That's to make the enemy laugh to death..

It's working.

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

@Windjammer You bad bad man!!! Bha rat is going to invade!! You just wait!!!

@waz

 

[Hiptullha]

BC wtf... What are these guys supposed to learn from this? How to do "item sings" on the border?

Preparing for the inevitable bollywood item numbers which will take place during the invasion of Pakistan. One second their shooting at Hafiz Saeed, the other, they're swaying their hips in time to a Honey Singh soundtrack behind Katrina Kaif.