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40.000 civilians killed in Mosul

Because it's a deadlocked political system which is set up for failure. Abadi himself as prime minister does not have the amount of power to change it, it's too decentralized and will never succeed in its current state. A military takeover could result in far better, except when the military leaders are too extreme and don't plan reconstructing civil rule of the state.

What kind of healthy system is giving billions of dollars (a too large amount of money in other words) to an obvious enemy element (Barzanistan) that does not hide his enmity and actively confirms it time and time again (the land grabbing is just one such example) while the areas of Iraq that consider themselves fully loyal to the state and do not work against it, are struggling while that money could have helped them. I suggest a visit to Samawa, Nasiriyah, Amarah etc. This is obvious injustice and makes no sense.

What is going on is basically Baghdad feeding an internal enemy or troublemaker. Call it what you want.

The corruption is also a scandal. What credentials do all those officials have that came out of nowhere post 2003? Or what about all those parliamentarians who almost never bother to even show up! Even when there is a vote on an important decision.

This system needs to change and especially the constitution. You can't do major changes if the fundament is not right.

An enlightened nationalist and secular military regime might be a good option for a few years until all this mess is cleaned up and power can be given away. How to ensure this is difficult and of course I doubt that this will happen.

Obviously the school curriculum must change also in order to emphasis nationalism. Religion is fine and most people are already religious but it should be kept at home in a mixed (religiously) nation like Iraq with its history of religious inter-fighting. Of course religious rituals can continue in public.

Ba'athism, (the actual ideology) if reformed, becoming more inclusive and led by competent people (not dictators), is actually a good ideology for Arab countries like Syria, Iraq, Yemen etc. for the reasons that I mentioned in post 8.

Anyway I am not a Ba'athi so I don't care what the ideology will be as long as what I discussed in post 8, can be dealt with accordingly for the sake of progress and stability in those Arab countries.
 
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Iraqis need to learn how to compromise.
That is the way you make a country work.

Lol, that has been the system since 2003. Compromise on everything, compromise to enemies. And the result? Weak state, collapse of the military, corruption.

Pre 2003 no such nonsense was tolerated, the result? Strong state, little corruption, stability, strong military. Yeah the country was isolated and all but that's cause of sanctions; different topic.
 
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Lol, that has been the system since 2003. Compromise on everything, compromise to enemies. And the result? Weak state, collapse of the military, corruption.

Pre 2003 no such nonsense was tolerated, the result? Strong state, little corruption, stability, strong military. Yeah the country was isolated and all but that's cause of sanctions; different topic.
The result of the "strong" state was a war with Iran bankrupting the economy.
An attempt to restore economy by robbing Quwait was stopped.
The world tried to teach Iraq a lesson.
The failure to really learn, caused an invasion.
That is what You get when leaders are not responsible to the citizens.
 
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The result of the "strong" state was a war with Iran bankrupting the economy.
An attempt to restore economy by robbing Quwait was stopped.
The world tried to teach Iraq a lesson.
The failure to really learn, caused an invasion.
That is what You get when leaders are not responsible to the citizens.

You are talking about the past. What we are discussing here is why the current system is failed and what could be done to change the solution (short-lived or long-term) and the reasons for that. You are obviously not as well-versed in Iraqi affairs and history which explains your hysterical reaction.

None of us are Ba'athists. What we want to see is a strong and prosperous Iraqi state that is not misused by KRG, local traitors, local corrupt individuals regardless of sect, neighbors etc.

Is that so difficult to understand? You are looking at things from a Western perspective. You cannot apply this perspective to Iraq or any other country in the Middle East. It makes no sense other than idealistic talk. It has no relation to ground realities.
 
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You are talking about the past. What we are discussing here is why the current system is failed and what could be done to change the solution (short-lived or long-term) and the reasons for that. You are obviously not as well-versed in Iraqi affairs and history which explains your hysterical reaction.

None of us are Ba'athists. What we want to see is a strong and prosperous Iraqi state that is not misused by KRG, local traitors, local corrupt individuals regardless of sect, neighbors etc.

Is that so difficult to understand?

And Your solution appears to be modeled after Fascism/Stalinism.
Not the way forward.
 
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The result of the "strong" state was a war with Iran bankrupting the economy.
An attempt to restore economy by robbing Quwait was stopped.
The world tried to teach Iraq a lesson.
The failure to really learn, caused an invasion.
That is what You get when leaders are not responsible to the citizens.
Until there will be homogeneity in the Middle East, there will be no peace.
 
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And Your solution appears to be modeled after Fascism/Stalinism.
Not the way forward.

Not at all.

Unless you consider combating corruption (that has paralyzed the society and among other things enabled ISIS to take over Mosul - speaking about the topic of the thread), elements in the country that have allegiances and loyalties to foreign entities, ideologies, groups, persons, leaders etc, reconquering Iraqi territory that was illegally (as per all international laws) stolen by KRG due to the advance of ISIS and collapse of the military chain in Northern Iraq, preferring state institutions to have a secular nature due to the demographic composition of Iraq and newer history, promoting nationalism or should I rather say patriotism as otherwise I will be accused of fascism by your likes etc., is what you consider as fascism and stalinism then I must concur and admit that this is what I am in your eyes then, using your self-made definitions of those words.

I described my opinions in detail in post 8 and afterwards and earlier. It is all written black on white. Very clearly. Nothing is hidden. Been done a millions of times here before btw.

Those views have been the same for years. This includes every Arab country, including KSA, btw, although the cases are different in all the Arab states as I have also explained in detail. Anyway I am not a politician however that does not prevent me from having my own views that are based on history and what is going on and what I see. It is the job of local scholars, intellectuals, people of influence, decision makers etc. to create such public debates in order to pressure those in power or in order to influence them. I have no power as I am not a leader or head of state although I believe that I would be up for the job if I am to be honest. As would millions of others if given the chance. The old guard can barely be beaten in terms of incompetence.
 
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BTW the Iraqi state needs nationalism and secular state institutions. Religiously diverse nations (diverse in terms of sects) like Iraq need secular institutions in order to prevent group x or y from dominating and potentially, as in history, discriminating the other party...

...Ideally no community in KSA should feel threatened by other groups in the country, whether majority or minority, regardless of sect, regional origin, dialect etc. This way you create strong and stable states that cannot easily be used by outsiders to create trouble or by opportunists within. This should be the main job of every Arab regime/government...
This is very constructive thinking. How did you arrive at such wisdom, sir?
 
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The result of the "strong" state was a war with Iran bankrupting the economy.
An attempt to restore economy by robbing Quwait was stopped.
The world tried to teach Iraq a lesson.
The failure to really learn, caused an invasion.
That is what You get when leaders are not responsible to the citizens.

The result of a weak state is terrorism, corruption, military collapses.

We're not in Scandinavia, a weak state does not survive here given the neighbors of whom none are democratic.
 
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This is very constructive thinking. How did you arrive at such wisdom, sir?

It helps knowing the history of the region well, following recent events for a very long time closely and being able to deduct the good elements in period x or y and remove the bad elements. Not everything should be painted in either black or white. At some point in time you will be able to reach certain conclusions and once you do that you can try to create a state model based on that knowledge. Of course this is not science so a lot depends on how you look at the world. I tend to be pragmatic and I am willing to compromise for the greater good. Unlike principalists for instance.

BTW I have studied Islamist thinking and works (from many sects) as well as nationalist, secular etc. movements.

I wrote a very long post about my ideal idea (as of now) for political changes in KSA and a reform of the system. It's just something that I sometimes ponder upon whenever I think on what needs to be improved and what can be done to improve. Of course those are ideas on paper. Not yet proved in practice.
 
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The state is weak because it was imposed from outside. It isnt Iraqis that made it up. And it will continue to be weak
 
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The result of a weak state is terrorism, corruption, military collapses.

We're not in Scandinavia, a weak state does not survive here given the neighbors of whom none are democratic.

The description of Your "strong" state resembles ISIS, which is currently
beeing pushed back by the weak state of Iraq.

Not at all.

Unless you consider combating corruption (that has paralyzed the society and among other things enabled ISIS to take over Mosul - speaking about the topic of the thread), elements in the country that have allegiances and loyalties to foreign entities, ideologies, groups, persons, leaders etc, reconquering Iraqi territory that was illegally (as per all international laws) stolen by KRG due to the advance of ISIS and collapse of the military chain in Northern Iraq, preferring state institutions to have a secular nature due to the demographic composition of Iraq and newer history, promoting nationalism or should I rather say patriotism as otherwise I will be accused of fascism by your likes etc., is what you consider as fascism and stalinism then I must concur and admit that this is what I am in your eyes then, using your self-made definitions of those words.

I described my opinions in detail in post 8 and afterwards and earlier. It is all written black on white. Very clearly. Nothing is hidden. Been done a millions of times here before btw.

Those views have been the same for years. This includes every Arab country, including KSA, btw, although the cases are different in all the Arab states as I have also explained in detail. Anyway I am not a politician however that does not prevent me from having my own views that are based on history and what is going on and what I see. It is the job of local scholars, intellectuals, people of influence, decision makers etc. to create such public debates in order to pressure those in power or in order to influence them. I have no power as I am not a leader or head of state although I believe that I would be up for the job if I am to be honest. As would millions of others if given the chance. The old guard can barely be beaten in terms of incompetence.

Here is the checklist for Fascism.
Your ideas seems to fit a number of the points.
Other points have not been discussed by You, but where You have an opinion
it is not very far from the Fascist view.

http://www.rense.com/general37/fascism.htm

The 14 Defining
Characteristics Of Fascism

Free Inquiry
Spring 2003
5-11-3

Dr. Lawrence Britt has examined the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia) and several Latin American regimes. Britt found 14 defining characteristics common to each:
1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.
2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.
3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.
4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.
5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.
6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.
7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.
8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed
to the government's policies or actions.
9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.
10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.
11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.
12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.
13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.
14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.
 
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The description of Your "strong" state resembles ISIS, which is currently
beeing pushed back by the weak state of Iraq.

You mix military with politics.

Iraq is militarily stronger than IS, has intl. backing that provides legitimacy for this war which renders the weak political leadership above it less relevant in this comparison. The weak leadership (political level) is what enabled the 2014 collapse of many divisions.

It does not matter how strong the ISF becomes, as long as its leadership is fragile they will be an ineffective tool. Its top leadership remains civil authorities in Baghdad. The 2 former ministers of defense have stated in parliament that the military was being sabotaged from within by its own politicians, which is true. Knowing that, you see why that weak state is actually a problem?
 
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The description of Your "strong" state resembles ISIS, which is currently
beeing pushed back by the weak state of Iraq.



Here is the checklist for Fascism.
Your ideas seems to fit a number of the points.
Other points have not been discussed by You, but where You have an opinion
it is not very far from the Fascist view.

http://www.rense.com/general37/fascism.htm

The 14 Defining
Characteristics Of Fascism

Free Inquiry
Spring 2003
5-11-3

Dr. Lawrence Britt has examined the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia) and several Latin American regimes. Britt found 14 defining characteristics common to each:
1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.
2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.
3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.
4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.
5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.
6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.
7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.
8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed
to the government's policies or actions.
9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.
10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.
11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.
12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.
13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.
14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

So if we assume that I am an "fascist", what is wrong with that?

In a more serious fashion, how in the good world did you make such a connection based on what I wrote in post 8 and the most recent one? I am genuinely curious.

Any ideology that makes the Arab people and Arab nation strong on every front is an ideology that I adhere to.

Saif al-Arab becomes happy when Iraq as a country and as a people is doing good. Saif al-Arab also becomes happy when Libya as a country and as a people is doing good. Saif al-Arab becomes happy when Yemen is doing good as a country and as a people.

Saif al-Arab wants to see the necessary changes in Iraq as explained in detail in this thread.

Saif al-Arab is then accused by a Swedish gentleman of being a fascist and some talk of ISIS also to add to the comedy.

Saif al-Arab does not understand this and is baffled. Afterwards Saif al-Arab is called a fascist which Saif al-Arab has no problem with if the improvements that he wants to see (which most Iraqis also want to see), are defined as fascism by the Swedish gentleman that he is discussing with.

Now let us enjoy a nice and beautiful Iraqi military parade as this is after all a military forum:

The famed Republican Guard in action from 1994:


Old one from 2000:


Here is a very recent one to celebrate the nice victory in Mosul (short version):


Here are three longer versions (almost full versions):




Hopefully those military parades will not be called fascist as your list, lists this as a fascist ideology.

You mix military with politics.

Iraq is militarily stronger than IS, has intl. backing that provides legitimacy for this war which renders the weak political leadership above it less relevant in this comparison. The weak leadership (political level) is what enabled the 2014 collapse of many divisions.

It does not matter how strong the ISF becomes, as long as its leadership is fragile they will be an ineffective tool. Its top leadership remains civil authorities in Baghdad. The 2 former ministers of defense have stated in parliament that the military was being sabotaged from within by its own politicians, which is true. Knowing that, you see why that weak state is actually a problem?

We can also mention the storming of the Green Zone and Iraqi parliament by Al-Sadr supporters not that long ago. Scenes that should not occur in a country the status of Iraq. We can mention many other examples of why this current system is far from perfect and why it needs improvement. One can also spend many hours on discussing the current constitution and why it needs to change on many fronts. This is just the political aspect but this "just" aspect is what makes an entire state tick. Or fail.

Obviously at some point the decision makers, their successors and society as a whole will notice that changes are needed. Especially once ISIS is removed fully and reduced to a hopefully incredibly weak mafia organization using hit and run attacks.
 
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