4 Chinese Destroyer Ships available for Purchase , Decommissioned 2 Months ago

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Makes sense to take the defensive umberella out to Sea

F22P Operate newer missiles

• FM-90N SAM launcher

Which is a variant of the HQ-7 class missiles based on https://www.ausairpower.net/APA-HQ-7-Crotale.html

Any minor touch ups like SAM systems etc can be done with friendly nations


Potentially 4 (Available now) , and 3 waiting to be decommissioned , these ships offer a decent stop gap measure

 

[FuturePAF]

Makes sense to take the defensive umberella out to Sea

F22P Operate newer missiles

• FM-90N SAM launcher

Which is a variant of the HQ-7 class missiles based on https://www.ausairpower.net/APA-HQ-7-Crotale.html

Any minor touch ups like SAM systems etc can be done with friendly nations

The HQ-7 is basically a point defense system with today's threats. I'm not saying its a bad system, its just limited, even for self protection. The enemy could easily overwhelm the system.

Maybe adding a 24 cell FL-3000N Launcher just in front of the bridge, but behind the FM-90N Launcher could add enough air defense missiles to protect against an enemy saturation attack with anti-ship cruise missiles. We wouldn't be able to reload the 8 cells of the FM-90N fast enough (during an attack) if we used them up against an enemy force launching Salvos, but with another layer, we improve the chances of the ships fending off the attack.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Well for SAM we could get these ships upgraded to newer missile with China or Ask Turkey about their under develop SAM systems

The system upgrade would not be such a massive time consuming item as it is the case of building whole ship we are just tinkering with 5-10%


SAM modification vendors most likely be

a) China
b) Turkey

Either nation could help with introduction of their Radar/SAM system modernization

 

[CHI RULES]

The F21 frigates were UK based an as per available data they were chosen in desperate time though still serving yet running them proved to be problematic and costly for PN. PN perhaps shall only go for OHPs if available in near future meanwhile first time they are on right track to get relatively small platforms with stealth features and capable AD capabilities which are so far absent from PN ships.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

OHP doors are shut unfortunately no signs of change
Chinese "Destroyer" fleet is available. (4 plus 3 ships )

 

[khanasifm]

The HQ-7 is basically a point defense system with today's threats. I'm not saying its a bad system, its just limited, even for self protection. The enemy could easily overwhelm the system.

Maybe adding a 24 cell FL-3000N Launcher just in front of the bridge, but behind the FM-90N Launcher could add enough air defense missiles to protect against an enemy saturation attack with anti-ship cruise missiles. We wouldn't be able to reload the 8 cells of the FM-90N fast enough (during an attack) if we used them up against an enemy force launching Salvos, but with another layer, we improve the chances of the ships fending off the attack.

Older 054 type with fn-80/90 had a reload 8 reload rounds

 

[OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ]

The experience alone of operating destroyers is something Pakistan should be seeking in the near term before modern equipment becomes available. 4 in hand are better than 0 or projected induction. If these ships operate with minimal costs for next 5 to 10 years that is excellent experience before replacements arrive not to mention the deterrence they'll provide.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

The experience alone of operating destroyers is something Pakistan should be seeking in the near term before modern equipment becomes available. 4 in hand are better than 0 or projected induction. If these ships operate with minimal costs for next 5 to 10 years that is excellent experience before replacements arrive not to mention the deterrence they'll provide.

IMO the replacement ships (054A/P & Jinnah-class) are both exponentially more advanced than these ships, I'm not sure how much besides basic ship management experience crews will get out of these old ships. We also don't know how many personnel the PN has available, it might not able to man them in short-order without phasing out the last Type 21s. And we also have to think about the expansion of the submarine fleet, that'll take up personnel too.

 

[FuturePAF]

Older 054 type with fn-80/90 had a reload 8 reload rounds View attachment 578451

How fast can you reload in the middle of an attack. Hence the need of an added layer between the FM-90N and the Ciws

IMO the replacement ships (054A/P & Jinnah-class) are both exponentially more advanced than these ships, I'm not sure how much besides basic ship management experience crews will get out of these old ships. We also don't know how many personnel the PN has available, it might not able to man them in short-order without phasing out the last Type 21s. And we also have to think about the expansion of the submarine fleet, that'll take up personnel too.

The other potential of these ships need to be considered; as a platform for long range anti ship cruise missiles like the YJ-12 or CX-1 or even a small anti ship ballistic missile (see my earlier posts for details). Sort of like a sovernreny class destroyer but with missiles heavy enough to sink capital ships in one shot.

The threat of a salvo of 8-16 heavy anti ship missiles at an enemy surface action group could be enough to force the enemy back enough to make a blockade impractical

 

[OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ]

IMO the replacement ships (054A/P & Jinnah-class) are both exponentially more advanced than these ships, I'm not sure how much besides basic ship management experience crews will get out of these old ships. We also don't know how many personnel the PN has available, it might not able to man them in short-order without phasing out the last Type 21s. And we also have to think about the expansion of the submarine fleet, that'll take up personnel too.

I'm not sure crew ship management is an issue... What experience you need is how to incorporate destroyers in the fleet... it will change the nature of the fleet and maneuvers of the battle group. And these are few salient examples besides others which will only help Pakistan incorporate newer and more modern surface ships in the fleet.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

We need to change our stance from Passive , Offshore patrol and tiny boats to boats which can serve a purpose by enhancing the outreach of Pakistan Navy to impose Pakistan's National interest at least with in the boundaries of our Sea

• Gulf
• Sea of Pakistan
• Red Sea
• Possible Southern trips to Srilanka
• Possible Trips to Myannamar
• Keep Oman in check

Bring the ships in , hire labor force to work on Ship , cleanup , maintenance
Do some contracts to enhance it's capabilities with Partner countries

Their is no shortage of Labor force in Pakistan

 

[CT-9914 "Snoop"]

We need to change our stance from Passive , Offshore patrol and tiny boats to boats which can serve a purpose by enhancing the outreach of Pakistan Navy to impose Pakistan's National interest at least with in the boundaries of our Sea

• Gulf
• Sea of Pakistan
• Red Sea
• Possible Southern trips to Srilanka
• Possible Trips to Myannamar
• Keep Oman in check

Bring the ships in , hire labor force to work on Ship , cleanup , maintenance
Do some contracts to enhance it's capabilities with Partner countries

Their is no shortage of Labor force in Pakistan

Yeah how about we don't just limit our role to just labor and maybe put in some positive input in the development of vessels (or any other system for that matter) we intend to acquire and maybe our students won't have to go outside for employment.

The F21 frigates were UK based an as per available data they were chosen in desperate time though still serving yet running them proved to be problematic and costly for PN. PN perhaps shall only go for OHPs if available in near future meanwhile first time they are on right track to get relatively small platforms with stealth features and capable AD capabilities which are so far absent from PN ships.

Why go for glorified gunboats armed with torpedoes which will probably end up being costly maintain like the Tariq you mentioned, when there's far more capable off-the-shelf solutions being offered.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Gun boats and missiles boats are , what they are they are a support vessel not the Primary offensive weapon
The opportunity exists to upgrade our 3 Dimensional Defensive needs from Sea

• Air- Surface - Sub Surface
• Promotion of Pakistan's National Interest

Since we lack a proper surface fleet the 4 + 3 ships (Destroyer Class) would greatly enhance our Sea Operations and protecting Pakistani Natural resources at sea

The ships offer easy , modification for our Local Weapons

The Azmat class stealth ships can remain in consideration as a Support Ship

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

How are folks feeling about a fill gap 7 Ship acquisition Possibility now that we are in 2020 , what a difference 1 year makes ?

When I started the thread in August 2019 , the geo political situation was different around world


"How about a Short term acquisition? A 5 year acquisition? "


Fast forward 2020

• Global Pandemic is out of Pandora's box
• Conflict between China-India , at Laddak
• Delays in Arrival of T-129
• Delays in Arrival of Milgem (It has a natural Long delivery period)
• No New Submarines in hand

Some touch up with Pakistani Missiles could freshen up these Retired Destroyers


These 4 (Parked in decks) +3 (Soon to be retired) ships could be in Pakistan on short notice planners need to pick up the phone

 

[Zarvan]

Lease these ships Till Type054 arrive in Pakistan
Send a delegation and pick up the 4 units and add them immediately in Pakistan Navy

Ships retired May , 2019**
https://www.defenseworld.net/news/2...oyers_Days_after_Commissioning_2_New_Warships

The destroyer flotilla of the Chinese Navy under the PLA Northern Theater Command held a retirement ceremony for four first-generation missile destroyers.

The decommissioning of the 4 ships at a military port in Lyushun, Liaoning Province, followed the induction of two Type 052D guided missile destroyers in the naval shipyard of Dalian on May 12.

Official media identified the decommissioned ships as the guided-missile destroyers Kaifeng (Hull 109), Dalian (Hull 110), Zunyi (Hull 134) and Guilin (Hull 164) All of the four destroyers had been in service for more than 30 years.

No and I am more than sure that Type 54 A and MILGEM/Jinah class Corvettes order will get doubled.