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31 killed as militants attack Pakistan army checkpost

By asking this question you are demonstrating the flaw in your thought process, but just so you know Im from Lahore

Pa ji its not good to have such opinion about an entire community, taliban, religous extremist mindset is present every where, punjabi talibans in your south punjab, that jumat e islami guys in your lahore, that tablighis of your raiwind. If we pashtuns are religous students then you punjabis are our teachers...
 
that tablighis of your raiwind.

And Albadar Masjid in Abbottabad :D

I hear you are in Ayyub medical college?
Ask around about "Ziyaad Noor" of Waziristan... He was a student there in early 90s and he was the one who started "Tabligh" in Ayyub medical college...
Was a wonderful guy...
 
inalillahi wainalilahe rajeon.

I thought that was reffered to @pakdefender when Luffy asked this question

Are you from Karachi.

Carry on. I shared my views. This is a dead conversation. Those militants need to be killed. We do it we piss of Pashtuns and Qabaili's... I have no idea what to do. Maybe a ban on helicopter gunships, airstrikes and artillery may help reduce civilian casualties.
 
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And Albadar Masjid in Abbottabad :D

I hear you are in Ayyub medical college?
Ask around about "Ziyaad Noor" of Waziristan... He was a student there in early 90s and he was the one who started "Tabligh" in Ayyub medical college...
Was a wonderful guy...

I think i have heard his name, i was myself regular tablighi during student life in AMC.
 
I think i have heard his name, i was myself regular tablighi during student life in AMC.

If you been to Albadar Masjid or ever go there...On your left there is a Shia Imam Bara on the hill..Its the biggest in Hazara and its also a residential Shia Madrissa...Albadar masjid have their own Madrissah with hundreds of students..But to this date there have been no rivalry or clash between the two Mosques of totally different schools of thought..
Thought i will Praise Abbottabad a bit :D

And on the right is my School F.G school up on the hill
 
I thought that was reffered to @pakdefender when Luffy asked this question



Carry on. I shared my views. This is a dead conversation. Those militants need to be killed. We do it we piss of Pashtuns and Qabaili's... I have no idea what to do. Maybe a ban on helicopter gunships, airstrikes and artillery may help reduce civilian casualties.

Actually safriz and pakdefender's frustration can change into nation wide hatred against tribals or even all pashtuns in near future if talibanization and attacks on their beloved pak army continued in FATA and KPK.....It is indeed a useless excercize for me to stop breeding of such thoughts among pakistanis.
 
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Actually safriz and pakdefender's frustration can change into nation wide hatred against tribals or even all pashtuns in near future if talibanization and attacks on their beloved pak army continued in FATA and KPK.....It is indeed a useless excercize for me to stop breeding of such thoughts among pakistanis.

Luffy I tried to tell you this so many times but you don't listen. When you link yourself to Afghanistan and India they will automatically hate you and it will translate into hatred for Pashtuns as a whole for those who are chauvinistic and need an ethnic group to hate. Me I am out of this discussion but I hope you understand what you are starting Luffy.

I promise I tried to help you by calling for hyperion to be promoted so you feel Pashtuns have voice but you never listen. You are destroying position Pashtuns built with their hands with much difficulty and hard work. Personally I don't feel insecure. My only defence of Pashtuns comes from what I saw in Karachi (the racism) which is why I defend them. To assert our Pashtun identity we don't need to fight with other Pakistanis or defend ourselves from their slanderous comments.
Especially it seems hypocritical when you don't with others who insult Pashtuns.

We know Kashmir would not be free without Pashtuns of tribal regions. No one is going to take it positively, not a Pashtun not anyone else when you stick to Indians and Afghans. We are a very racist people Luffy. Don't play a part in this. I still remember you defending me and Arooj on that forum early on but you can't expect us to welcome abuse to Pakistan.
 
Luffy I tried to tell you this so many times but you don't listen. When you link yourself to Afghanistan and India they will automatically hate you and it will translate into hatred for Pashtuns as a whole for those who are chauvinistic and need an ethnic group to hate. Me I am out of this discussion but I hope you understand what you are starting Luffy.

I promise I tried to help you by calling for hyperion to be promoted so you feel Pashtuns have voice but you never listen. You are destroying position Pashtuns built with their hands with much difficulty and hard work. Personally I don't feel insecure. My only defence of Pashtuns comes from what I saw in Karachi (the racism) which is why I defend them. To assert our Pashtun identity we don't need to fight with other Pakistanis or defend ourselves from their slanderous comments.
Especially it seems hypocritical when you don't with others who insult Pashtuns.

We know Kashmir would not be free without Pashtuns of tribal regions. No one is going to take it positively, not a Pashtun not anyone else when you stick to Indians and Afghans. We are a very racist people Luffy. Don't play a part in this. I still remember you defending me and Arooj on that forum early on but you can't expect us to welcome abuse to Pakistan.

You are underestimating safriz or pakdefender, they certainly possesses some intellect, no matter what their arguements are, they are convincing to many, their views on tribals has nothing to do with my affection for Afghanistan...in another post on this thread you said that certain trolls are provoking him(safriz) to say such things, do you think he is a 5 year old kid?
And you are wrong about me, i wont support hyperion for think tank just because he is pashtun. I believe in merit not ethnic background, Hyperion is just a non-serious troll. And no one should be promoted to think tank status or moderator just because he is pashtun, i dont believe in quota distribution. And i feel you consider me some kind of blind pashtun nationalist who is obsessed with race and turns blind eye to negatives in his people, you are again wrong. I would shake hands with honourable punjabi with principles than with a beghairat dala pashtun.
 
Afghanistan cannot handle the belt themselves nor do they deserve the belt. The belt is full of Pakistanis not Afghans.

Just curious you claimed in another thread to be some one who cares two hoots about Pakistan or India yet here you claim to be a pakistani born abroad?
 
yes
the training kicks in. thats a universal symptom beyond the times of recorded history. there is also a mob mentality and lynching of the untouchables or minorities across the globe where seemingly very cultured and peace loving pepole turn violent.

Irfan no Offence but there seems to be too much emotional clutter here. The TTP used four suicidal bombers and slipped into a poorly trained or managed Army out post and killed twenty Army and FC people. There are no 12 TTP bodies to identify. It has to be inside info?
 
Just curious you claimed in another thread to be some one who cares two hoots about Pakistan or India yet here you claim to be a pakistani born abroad?

You must be misquoting me or taking me out of context. Yea I am born in USA of Pakistani descent everyone who has conversed with me knows this, it isn't some sort of secret. HBU are you an Englishman ?
 
Neither do i,but whats the point you are making?

People can blame Army and ISI for dragging them in the Afghan war but USSR was too big and Brutal an oppressor and conqueror who had conquered Pakistan after Afghanistan..
It was the Genius of ISI and PA that they were defeated and got rid of...If somebody thinks that they had taken on USSR on their own,they should learn from Chechen and Central Asian nations..
With all their Tribal traditions and arrogance and being martial races,they couldn't hold back the onslaught of USSR.

One more thing will prove the point i was making..You are wazir? and from tribal area..or so i have learned on this forum,os you may be uneasy about me mentioning Tribal areas in context of terrorism and such.
But @Pushtoon is from Charsadda and yet he is hyper about me dissing whoever among the tribal is supporting Terrorists and involved in Arms/Drug trade..
Goes to show the point i was making that a Pushtoon wont see if the opther pushtoon is right or wrong..But since he is Pushtoon he will support other pushtoon regardless of they area mass murderer or Terrorists.
.


1st bold part .. Are you sure about that ? If Yes Then you are accepting the truth that Taliban were made by the army & ISI. Then further more the Army & ISI were just giving orders and weapons setting in their luxuries room. It was the Terrorist and Damn fool Qabaily (according to you) who were fighting on the ground. They were the people taking bullets on their chest for whom ? for Pakistan and on the name of Islam. Pity you safriz

2nd Bold Part . About yr point that i am not from Qabail and still supporting them THEN Artha Hlasa . Check my location flag and also check my profile picture its from Palestine.. I am not from there and still supporting them .. There is a word call Humanity.

Who made you a think tank? Russia interfered in the ongoing conflict between two factions of communist regime of Afghanistan , later sent forces on request of Afghan communists. Afghanistan was neighbour of sovien union, there was communist governament and russia interfered in it to safegaurd its interests like it did in many communist countries of east europe. It has nothing to do with warm waters of pakistan or resources of afghanistan, infact russia didnt strike even a single bomb on pakistani soil even though they knew that mujahideen training and recruiting camps are in Pakistan...role of ISI and CIA was evident, still they refrained from punishing pakistan and bombing it to stone age.

Luffy there is a Army/FC camp or somthing near Turkham almost 4 5 Km from Turkham.. And the russian shells are still there you can check.


Just came to office and on the way driver told me that he had a very bad weekend i asked why ? He replied his cousin was among the people killed in this attack working in FC. His name was Bakht Kamal aur 9 Feb ko uski Shadi honi thi.. :)

Safriz m not going to reply any more But surely will pray to ALLAH that let ALLAH show you the feeling what the Qabaily are feeling at the moment after the lost of their loved ones.
 
Pakistan army battles legacy of mistrust in Taliban heartland
Reuters


Soldiers drive through a road near Wana, the main town in Pakistan’s South Waziristan tribal region bordering Afghanistan November 27, 2012. – Photo by Reuters

CHAGMALAI: In a Pakistan army base high in the mountains on the Afghan frontier, a general explains a strategy for fighting the Taliban he calls simply “WHAM”.

The name has a distinctly bellicose ring. But the soldiers are learning to fight a new kind of war in a region US President Barack Obama has called the most dangerous on Earth.

“WHAM – winning hearts and minds,” explains the straight-talking General Nazir Butt, in charge of converting the army’s gains on the battlefield into durable security. “The plan is to turn militant sanctuaries into safe havens for the people.”

The term WHAM has been used before, but the focus this time is South Waziristan, an enclave on the Afghan border once the epicentre of a spreading Pakistan Taliban insurgency that shocked the country with its challenge to the authority of the state.

According to the army narrative, the campaign includes winning over the region’s ethnic Pashtun tribes through dialogue, creating commercial opportunities and providing education in new schools and colleges.

During a three-day trip with the army, Reuters got a rare glimpse not just into the scale of the army’s state-building project in South Waziristan, but also the challenges that lurk in the inhospitable territory.


However well-meaning the new approach, there are problems that won’t go away – threats of retaliation by the al Qaeda-linked militants, a lack of effective civilian administration and endemic corruption.

And the campaign to win hearts and minds has an ignoble track record in other conflict zones which serve as a reality check for even the most optimistic Pakistani officials.


In Iraq and Afghanistan, Western nations poured in millions of dollars to rebuild militant strongholds and win affection.

Results have been limited: many residents view the armies as occupiers and militants remain a danger.

The goal won’t be any easier in South Waziristan. The area forms one-fifth of Pakistan’s Federally Administered Tribal Areas which are roughly the size of Belgium and governed under a system inherited from British colonialists.

Government-appointed political agents rule through the Pashtun tribes and collect and distribute revenue with little oversight. The people have limited rights.

While the Pakistani army backed the Taliban in Afghanistan in the 1990s, and supported militants fighting Indian rule in the Kashmir region, in South Waziristan it found itself under attack
.

Decades of resentment felt by the population and the US bombing campaign on the Afghan border following the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on the United States spawned a generation of Pakistani militants who used South Waziristan to launch assaults against the Pakistani state and US-led forces in Afghanistan.

A DONKEY AND A HIGHWAY

Unsure how to respond, Pakistan see-sawed between brief military campaigns and appeasing the militants with short-lived peace deals. Then, in 2009, Pakistan’s army chief ordered the biggest offensive yet, pouring 40,000 troops into South Waziristan in a bid to tip the balance.

The 2009 offensive displaced almost half a million people as homes, schools and hospitals were turned into hideouts by militants and meagre civic amenities were destroyed.

Today, a combination of the offensive and US drones has helped drive the Pakistan Taliban leadership out of South Waziristan and the army is looking for ways to convince people it is safe for them to return.

But after having spent close to three years in camps, only 41,000 refugees have come back.


“The people can only feel fully secure if there is social and economic uplift,” said a brigadier who commands a cliff-side compound near Wana, the main town in South Waziristan. “It took some time but we know now that 1,000 bullets can’t do the work of one school.”

Many of the refugees have resettled in Chagmalai, a village close to Jandola, where the army is headquartered in a fort built by the British in the 19th century – a reminder of a centuries-old policy of ruling the area through a mix of intimidation and armed intervention.


A small, colourful marketplace was inaugurated last year and the green-and-white Pakistani flag was painted on the shutters of shops given to traders for a nominal fee. In a courtyard next door, army officers and government officials teach people how to raise poultry and set up bee farms.

But despite the development, Chagmalai still resembles a ghost town, a collection of ruined houses and abandoned clinics and schools with falling plaster and bullet-pocked walls. The army says it wants to turn the secluded landscape into a new home for those who have found the courage to return.

Ashraf Khan is a recently widowed farmer who has just returned from the Jandola fort where he asked the commanding officer for a loan.

“My wife used to gather firewood and collect water,” he said. “Now I need to buy a donkey. I’m hoping the soldiers will keep their promise to help.”

A few kilometres away, construction workers and army engineers have dug through rugged terrain to build a road, which will connect the isolated region with the northwest city of Peshawar, the nearest economic hub. The US government has contributed $170 million for the 287-km (180-mile) road.

Agricultural land and poultry farms line the sides of the highway, which zips through a breathtaking chasm of mountains and cliffs, its dual-lanes in better shape than many of those in Pakistani cities.

“The road has made it so much easier to move flocks, feed and medicines,” said Hamid Jan who runs a poultry farm. “I’ve never earned this much money before.”


“ASK ME ABOUT MY BOOKS”

The army believes it can create goodwill by encouraging commerce and, more importantly, education. Officers say 33 schools have been restored and 4,000 students enrolled, 200 of them girls, but verifying such data is difficult.

The Taliban oppose girls’ education and in October shot a 15-year-old Pakistani girl, Malala Yousafzai, for advocating schooling for girls.

But the army says it will power on. Having previously served in the disputed border region between Pakistan and India, Colonel Asim Iqbal now shows off a flagship technical institute and cadet college built as part of the WHAM initiative.

Seventy-five students graduated from the 11-million-rupee Waziristan Institute of Technical Education in December with diplomas in auto-mechanics, carpentry and IT. Nearby, a cadet college has been built at a cost of 500 million rupees.

In the college computer lab, Shamsullah, 15, learnt word-processing. A poor teenager whose uncle was a militant commander killed in a US drone strike, Shamsullah could have been a ready Taliban recruit. Instead, he just wants to study
.

“I have nothing to do with militancy,” he said. “Ask me about my books.”

An army instructor teaches students at a technical class in the Waziristan Institute of Technical Education (WITE) in Spinkai in Pakistan’s South Waziristan tribal region bordering Afghanistan November 29, 2012. – Photo by Reuters

But for all the high hopes, enthusiastic students, freshly plastered classrooms and tarmac roads, there is little sign of a credible civilian administration taking root.

The highest political officer in the area, the political agent, does not even live in South Waziristan out of fear of being killed by the Taliban, who have murdered hundreds of leaders in the tribal belt in recent years.

Pashtun elders said official records showed that school teachers absent for months were still drawing salaries while the administration took no action.

But political agent Shahidullah Khan said he was doing the best he could
. “There is only so much I can do when I can’t even travel outside the army camp,” he said by phone from Tank, a town to the east of South Waziristan.

Only on Saturday, more than 30 people were killed in an attack on a military checkpost next to South Waziristan which the Taliban said was revenge for a drone strike that killed two commanders in North Waziristan last month.

Many of the boys playing cricket close to the market declined to answer when asked about army assurances of a better life. But referring to militants and the military, one said: “They’re all the same.”

Some army officers accept such criticism as valid, admitting to the state’s decades-old heavy-handedness in the region.

“The budget for my brigade alone could take care of the education of all of South Waziristan,” said General Butt. “We have made many mistakes. And we don’t deny it any more.”

But while Butt insists that the militants are no longer a force to be reckoned with in South Waziristan, many people are less optimistic.

“The army has blocked them for now but the Taliban can return,” said a shop-keeper.

A tribal elder whose family has moved away and is too afraid to return, asked: “If the Taliban are really gone for good, why doesn’t the army also leave?”
A man attends a computer class at the Wana Institute of Technical Training in Wana, the main town in Pakistan's South Waziristan tribal region bordering Afghanistan November 27, 2012. - Photo by Reuters

A man attends a computer class at the Wana Institute of Technical Training in Wana, the main town in Pakistan’s South Waziristan tribal region bordering Afghanistan November 27, 2012. – Photo by Reuters
 
What do you say to a terrorist group that sets conditions for peace talks and then attack and kill soldiers and innocent citizens without any remorse? We strongly condemn the attack on the security check post in Lakki Marwat. We mourn the death of innocent Pakistani citizens and security personnel and send our condolences to their families and friends.


Abdul Quddus
DET-United States Central Command
U.S. Central Command
 
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