3 Rafale fighters landing next week, 9 more in April to add to IAF’s firepower

[Yasser76]

not overly concerned about readers on here. most just fantasize,about j10c block 70 f16 and project Azm and 052 destroyers, without understanding ground reality and claims are so far fetched it's like primary school level understanding.

I do agree pakistan did a good job on 27th in having the courage to respond to on paper at least a much stronger air power. and you scored a,kill ie mig21 bison.

You seem concerned enough to keep posting, so best not delude yourself. Not good for your mental health.

 

[Yasser76]

In Feb 2019, it was decided that all IAF fighter aircraft will be equipped with Israeli made jamproof, ultra-secure BNET software defined radios and datalinks.
This will allow French, Russian and Indian aircraft to communicate with each other and also share tactical data through datalink (much faster than link 16).

Aero India: Rafael Places $30 Million Order to ARC

At a ceremony on 20 February 2019 at the 2019 Aero India defense exhibition in Bengaluru, India, Rafael Advanced Defense Systems CEO, Major General (ret.) Yoav Har-Even, presented Chief Operations Officer of Astra Rafael COMSYS PVT LTD (ARC), Brigadier Ravi Hariharan with a $30 million purchase...

www.monch.com

This is software defined radio, Pakistan has been using this for 10 years, it's also not at true data link enabling true networking, you need a much more sophisticated package. Essentially it means a SU-30 pilot can talk to a Mirage 2000 pilot. This is not cutting edge stuff.

As of right now, India's vast array of ground radars from 4 different countries, it's AEW aircraft and it's fighters from 5 different countries and weapons from 6 different countries have no common, India wide network.

Pakistan Army, Navy and Air Force have all adopted Link 17/Link Green. This essentially means a US TPS-77 radar can feed info into a central node that can be shared with a JF-17, likewise assets that use Link 16 (Like the F-16s and P-3Cs) can feed into the same node giving Pakistan a combined air and maritime pictures from Army, Navy and Air Force assets.

India is YEARS away from this, and even it's services cannot agree on how this will work.

 

[Tejas Spokesman]

This is software defined radio, Pakistan has been using this for 10 years, it's also not at true data link enabling true networking, you need a much more sophisticated package. Essentially it means a SU-30 pilot can talk to a Mirage 2000 pilot. This is not cutting edge stuff.

As of right now, India's vast array of ground radars from 4 different countries, it's AEW aircraft and it's fighters from 5 different countries and weapons from 6 different countries have no common, India wide network.

Pakistan Army, Navy and Air Force have all adopted Link 17/Link Green. This essentially means a US TPS-77 radar can feed info into a central node that can be shared with a JF-17, likewise assets that use Link 16 (Like the F-16s and P-3Cs) can feed into the same node giving Pakistan a combined air and maritime pictures from Army, Navy and Air Force assets.

India is YEARS away from this, and even it's services cannot agree on how this will work.

Wrong. ARC will complete all manufacturing of BNET radios (one of the most advanced airborne SDRs ever built) in 2021.
It will be the only radio of the IAF for all aircraft (except maybe trainers). Infact in addition to 1400 ordered before in 2019 (we ordered another 200-300 in December).
BNET is far superior to R&S radios used by F-16e.

 

[Yasser76]

Wrong. ARC will complete all manufacturing of BNET radios (one of the most advanced airborne SDRs ever built) in 2021.
It will be the only radio of the IAF for all aircraft (except maybe trainers). Infact in addition to 1400 ordered before in 2019 (we ordered another 200-300 in December).
BNET is far superior to R&S radios used by F-16e.

Yes, it is a good radio, what point are you making here? It is not a fully fledged secure data link. The fact an IAF AEW cannot link directly and securely with a Mirage 2000 is shocking. On 27th Feb the IAF relied on radio transmissions to it's fighters, which (by IAF's own admission) were jammed by PAF.

 

[The Maverick]

Yes, it is a good radio, what point are you making here? It is not a fully fledged secure data link. The fact an IAF AEW cannot link directly and securely with a Mirage 2000 is shocking. On 27th Feb the IAF relied on radio transmissions to it's fighters, which (by IAF's own admission) were jammed by PAF.

it's not your fault I will.post a separate thread with a,vedio explaining India.s
integrated,air command and control.system which is,a battle management control.system linking all 3 services and every conceivable weapons system.we have

please do not try and tell us we are buying weapons from.israel.usa France India and Russia and they are not networked

they are networked in India by Indians
this is,what we do best in the world it earns us whopping 130 billion dollars a,year in exports

 

[The Maverick]

it's not your fault I will.post a separate thread with a,vedio explaining India.s
integrated,air command and control.system which is,a battle management control.system linking all 3 services and every conceivable weapons system.we have

please do not try and tell us we are buying weapons from.israel.usa France India and Russia and they are not networked

they are networked in India by Indians
this is,what we do best in the world it earns us whopping 130 billion dollars a,year in exports

please see the new thread air defense command

see from.9mins it's called iaccs

please don't tell me our Rafale can't work.with mki or tejas or aew or our destroyers,.

we are not as incompetent as you make out

I.mean.come on buddy we send hundreds of satalites into space using our own rockets

 

[Tejas Spokesman]

Yes, it is a good radio, what point are you making here? It is not a fully fledged secure data

BNET is a multi channel SDR which means it is both a radio (voice communication) and a datalink (data communication).

BNET provides simultaneous voice, data and video communication. BNET is a major breakthrough in capacity, scalability, low latency and quality of service

Welcome

www.astrafaelcomsys.com

Also wrong IAF AWACs can communicate with all 4th gen aircraft in IAF.

What got jammed on Feb 27th was the obsolete HAL made INCOM radios which had no secure or jamproof modes. They got replaced by BNET-AR after that. We had publicly announced the problems with those INCOMs back in 2014 itself.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1238759688902082560

 

[Khan vilatey]

Tell me how did pakistan network French fighter if 50 years vintage to a legacy usa f16 and then this in turn linked to chinease thunder and radar and finally how do you link these,to a,Swedish and chinease,awacs,.. .

you see this mix bag issue apply to pakistan as,well

hello mav my savli, salooni mehboba, the one answer you are looking for is link -17 it took us over two decade to operationalize this throughout our Air Force and ground systems and awacs. Even then all our elements like the older f-7ps are not data linked. it’s super dumb to think that buying a fancy radio will solve the issue. When we bought radios from Australia and South Africa for our mirages they did not work in inverted flight. There sooooo much here that even with my degree in advanced electronics engineering from the UK, its hard for me to understand

something not working on 27th 2019 does not mean you can't induct French fighters.

they worked very well on 26th February over balakot and did a fine job over kargil laser bombing.

regardless indian defense planners would love to induct more Rafale fighters in future and combine them.with future upgraded lol from.russia and to confuse,enemy even further add indian.tejas and Amca on both israeli and indian awacs systems. we are probably looking at 100 billion dollars,investment so I know networking and comms is not overlooked and I can guarantee that will not be an issue .

your concern is when and what you do to respond to the almost non stop upgradtion to indian military power be it fighters, submarines,destroyers, drones,or logistics

mav you need to get up and smell the tarka, the PAF has always dominated India in aerial battles, their kill ratio has been close to 3-1 in PAF favor in all our wars. This is simply due to two reasons

1) we only have one enemy India so we specialize in defeating India

2) we are realists we understand our capability and know that alone we can not win against India the most we can do is free up 500 kms but then have to stop due to military reasons. Everything has been geared for this. We have had joint services commands from1979 I believe so nothing new welcome to the 19th century.

in your new scenario you have to contend with. China and Pakistan and India is not equipped to fight a high intensity quick war. Pakistan is and has been since 1979.

not overly concerned about readers on here. most just fantasize,about j10c block 70 f16 and project Azm and 052 destroyers, without understanding ground reality and claims are so far fetched it's like primary school level understanding.

I do agree pakistan did a good job on 27th in having the courage to respond to on paper at least a much stronger air power. and you scored a,kill ie mig21 bison.

Mav it was two planes SU-30 and a mig -21. We responded effectively because we have been practicing these scenarios for years. India will never deploy 36 of its rafaels against Pakistan they are for strategic delivery in China. You have no other aircraft that can do this!

k

 

[Yasser76]

it's not your fault I will.post a separate thread with a,vedio explaining India.s
integrated,air command and control.system which is,a battle management control.system linking all 3 services and every conceivable weapons system.we have

please do not try and tell us we are buying weapons from.israel.usa France India and Russia and they are not networked

they are networked in India by Indians
this is,what we do best in the world it earns us whopping 130 billion dollars a,year in exports

Battle management and networking are two seperate things, you do know that right? Or do I need to teach you another painful lesson like I did when you tried to claim Indian Army have 240 Arjun tanks in service when 120 of them have not even been made yet.

Ask yourself if you want another round of humiliation on this forum....

 

[GamoAccu]

The only people that will boast about 3 French jets in the world

 

[The Maverick]

please see the new thread air defense command

see from.9mins it's called iaccs

please don't tell me our Rafale can't work.with mki or tejas or aew or our destroyers,.

we are not as incompetent as you make out

I.mean.come on buddy we send hundreds of satalites into space using our own rockets

Battle management and networking are two seperate things, you do know that right? Or do I need to teach you another painful lesson like I did when you tried to claim Indian Army have 240 Arjun tanks in service when 120 of them have not even been made yet.

Ask yourself if you want another round of humiliation on this forum....

HERE YASSER just for you buddy the proof that india has a secure data link to its AWACS ground based missles warships and fighters from Russia & France ........... ITS called SDR

Please see in partcular reference to the " BNET AR SDR " installed on the Rafales no 17 Golden Arrows squadron and the same and 101 Falcons sqds for rafale too
Your refer of Feb 27 comms failure was due to VHF UHF L BAND two tactical data links and india has simce procured 473 + 3125 SDR worth 630 crore rupees .

This is the link
Enhancing situational awareness with SDR-based data-links (forceindia.net)

IM afraid you did us a BIG FAVOUR in Feb 27th 2019

Please note it also notes India IACCCS ie intergrated Airspace command and control & communication .

So in short the French Russian Israelis & USA hardware is networked completed to ships SAMS air radars satalites the full spectrum
orked

 

[Khan vilatey]

HERE YASSER just for you buddy the proof that india has a secure data link to its AWACS ground based missles warships and fighters from Russia & France ........... ITS called SDR

Please see in partcular reference to the " BNET AR SDR " installed on the Rafales no 17 Golden Arrows squadron and the same and 101 Falcons sqds for rafale too
Your refer of Feb 27 comms failure was due to VHF UHF L BAND two tactical data links and india has simce procured 473 + 3125 SDR worth 630 crore rupees .

This is the link
Enhancing situational awareness with SDR-based data-links (forceindia.net)

IM afraid you did us a BIG FAVOUR in Feb 27th 2019

Please note it also notes India IACCCS ie intergrated Airspace command and control & communication .

So in short the French Russian Israelis & USA hardware is networked completed to ships SAMS air radars satalites the full spectrum
orked

Mav ...... let me try a different example. When you use online banking there is a little lock on your browser of choice. This signifies a secure transaction where, what ever you enter in your page and the tunnel it creates between your browser and the banks outer layer is encrypted so other people can not hack this information easily.

The outer boundary of the bank and your browser is secured by encryption keys managed by a third party vendor like verisign. These keys or encryption seed data a combination of numbers and alphabet is changed every 3 - 6 months.
Within a typical bank there are various layers of data where lower tiered data from core systems needs to go encrypted using different keys via services to the business services layer and then those are accessed by the presentation layers services . Each layer can not access anything further than the layer bellow it and have different sets of encryption. To ensure bad people don’t. Get your data and a bunch of bank executives have parts of key that they know that they enter into a system at different intervals to change the keys. These executives are changed at a routine frequency as well. All this magic takes massive amounts of coordination and control and has been matured over so many decades.

Now imagine all the above and multiply the complexity by 10 as keys have to be kept at squadron levels, air brigade levels and over all command level. These all can be changed at a moments notice as at war time it is expected the old keys are hacked. Militaries train to have this communication compromised and change data encryption. The seed data used is much longer and harder to hack and all system missiles, radars, navy air defence radars, missiles and army missiles , radars and air defence guns need to coordinate. It took pakistan 2 -3 decades to get this to work with a lot of trial and error as no one shares this information and it is expected that friends will not remain friends for ever. We also had to integrate western systems with Chinese systems.

All this will take the Indian military at least 30-40 years to integrate due to their larger size and some more inefficiency of having ISI,s greatest assets DRDO and the Indian beuraucracy/ Indian civil service involved.

Buying radios is the first step in this hugely complex and ever changing environment. So yes your rafaels are capable of using their secure data radios with the awacs but are their processes in place to integrate this between the two and how will everything else integrate. How will the Rafael speak with other services if they use the digital encrypted version. How will these aircraft speak with the mig-21s, the best thing for PAF would be if these all are bungled up and none of them can speak with each other in Time of conflict .

k

 

[Itachi]

View attachment 727959


Those curves man. Until AMCA comes, she gonna be the best we have.

Looks ready for a AMRAAM to be struck with.

 

[Yasser76]

Mav ...... let me try a different example. When you use online banking there is a little lock on your browser of choice. This signifies a secure transaction where, what ever you enter in your page and the tunnel it creates between your browser and the banks outer layer is encrypted so other people can not hack this information easily.

The outer boundary of the bank and your browser is secured by encryption keys managed by a third party vendor like verisign. These keys or encryption seed data a combination of numbers and alphabet is changed every 3 - 6 months.
Within a typical bank there are various layers of data where lower tiered data from core systems needs to go encrypted using different keys via services to the business services layer and then those are accessed by the presentation layers services . Each layer can not access anything further than the layer bellow it and have different sets of encryption. To ensure bad people don’t. Get your data and a bunch of bank executives have parts of key that they know that they enter into a system at different intervals to change the keys. These executives are changed at a routine frequency as well. All this magic takes massive amounts of coordination and control and has been matured over so many decades.

Now imagine all the above and multiply the complexity by 10 as keys have to be kept at squadron levels, air brigade levels and over all command level. These all can be changed at a moments notice as at war time it is expected the old keys are hacked. Militaries train to have this communication compromised and change data encryption. The seed data used is much longer and harder to hack and all system missiles, radars, navy air defence radars, missiles and army missiles , radars and air defence guns need to coordinate. It took pakistan 2 -3 decades to get this to work with a lot of trial and error as no one shares this information and it is expected that friends will not remain friends for ever. We also had to integrate western systems with Chinese systems.

All this will take the Indian military at least 30-40 years to integrate due to their larger size and some more inefficiency of having ISI,s greatest assets DRDO and the Indian beuraucracy/ Indian civil service involved.

Buying radios is the first step in this hugely complex and ever changing environment. So yes your rafaels are capable of using their secure data radios with the awacs but are their processes in place to integrate this between the two and how will everything else integrate. How will the Rafael speak with other services if they use the digital encrypted version. How will these aircraft speak with the mig-21s, the best thing for PAF would be if these all are bungled up and none of them can speak with each other in Time of conflict .

k

Do not try logic with him, he requires the oxygen of our replies. He is now stating Software Defined Radio has enabled India to network all the 8 nations systems they have. He has no clue about modern equipment. The more we respond to him the more he breaths, he is like Covid, just stop spreading his fake news.

 

[Khan vilatey]

Do not try logic with him, he requires the oxygen of our replies. He is now stating Software Defined Radio has enabled India to network all the 8 nations systems they have. He has no clue about modern equipment. The more we respond to him the more he breaths, he is like Covid, just stop spreading his fake news.

Yes but it’s such a joy in my life to call him out.......... It’s funny how he and sometimes and even I don’t listen to reason. Patriotism does blind us all.


I am glad though you as a friend are here to keep me reasonable, thank you my friend, I appreciate your guidance

k

p.s.I don’t think mav knows how software defined radios (sdf) work. I am not sure but @Signalian might have worked on link -17. I remember this conversation 18 ish years ago. I was amazed back then as I am now, what a Herculean effort.