3 MoUs signed for investment of $6.3bn signed

[Contrarian]

Not sure. Haven't read the report.

But I trust your info is correct.


What Indian cities are doing is the right thing IF you got the hard currency aka dollars / Euros to pay for it.


The next cheeper solution is what Karachi is going for.


It has a nice circular railway from British times. We need to upgrade it, and keep it clean.

Then use BRT and light rail to feed the circular railway.


obviously the circular railway has to be augmented as the city continues to expand.


peace

Thats just it.

It was/is JICA financing majority of the cost. India is financing the minority share. Even the minority share is in billions of dollars though. But that the Govt can put up partly in kind as well.

JICA was ready to put up more money when it changed the plan from BRT and Light Rail to Metro.

 

[Ghareeb_Da_Baal]

looks like Nawaz is doing good work, don't know why PDF members don't like him...

cuz everyone only wants to support their own Palti.

 

[KRAIT]

There has been so many MoUs signed, work on ground is yet to be seen.

 

[WAR-rior]

I have to see the report you talk about'


However I assure you, the only low numbers we score on is the personal income tax from self employed and small biz.

Corporate income tax is paid for sure.

peace

Thats for sure that Corporate is registered and hence pay taxes. But we have to see the whole pie diagram of tax payer's revenue.

Now i assume that unlike India Pakistani industry is not very high revenue generating vis a vis total budget meeded for development. Thats why you can ignore the nontax payers of India coz Corporate tax to much extent fulfills it.

But can the same be said bout Pakistan? Please find out % ratio of total IT earned versus total IT booked. ie. % of revenue from total eligible IT payers. Once we have the figures, we can explicitly talk bout every unit.

 

[FaujHistorian]

Thats just it.

It was/is JICA financing majority of the cost. India is financing the minority share. Even the minority share is in billions of dollars though. But that the Govt can put up partly in kind as well.

JICA was ready to put up more money when it changed the plan from BRT and Light Rail to Metro.

Well said.


Many Pakistanis don't realize the enormous amount of hard currency that Indian government has. All thanks to the humble hard working global citizens of India.

Just like in daily life, if the seller knows you got cash, it will try to sell you top of the line stuff (cars, computers, factories, even nuclear plants).

However if the seller realizes you are not hard currency cash rich, the motivation level will obviously impacted.

Thats for sure that Corporate is registered and hence pay taxes. But we have to see the whole pie diagram of tax payer's revenue.

Now i assume that unlike India Pakistani industry is not very high revenue generating vis a vis total budget meeded for development. Thats why you can ignore the nontax payers of India coz Corporate tax to much extent fulfills it.

But can the same be said bout Pakistan? Please find out % ratio of total IT earned versus total IT booked. ie. % of revenue from total eligible IT payers. Once we have the figures, we can explicitly talk bout every unit.

let me clarify that the role of income tax in UK/US/EU is totally different from the rest of the world.

Prez Obama can raise taxes, take those dollars from American citizens and use them to buy petrol or Chinese toys. If he needs some extra, he can literally go to his basement and print some more. That's the power of your country having the hard currency.

PM Nawaz can raise taxes, collect rupees, that cannot be used anywhere but inside the country for buying and selling non-petrol, non-energy, non-tech stuff.

For everything that is energy related, tech related, Pakistan PM cannot truly use the money earned from income tax.

For that type of buying, PM sharif is dependent on Pakistanis to bring home the dollars/Euros, or get US/UK/EU loans.



It is thus complicated. very complicated.

We should not use the economic models and the lingo used for US/UK/EU. As we can't print hard currency.


peace

 

[WAR-rior]

Well said.


Many Pakistanis don't realize the enormous amount of hard currency that Indian government has. All thanks to the humble hard working global citizens of India.

Just like in daily life, if the seller knows you got cash, it will try to sell you top of the line stuff (cars, computers, factories, even nuclear plants).

However if the seller realizes you are not hard currency cash rich, the motivation level will obviously impacted.




let me clarify that the role of income tax in UK/US/EU is totally different from the rest of the world.

Prez Obama can raise taxes, take those dollars from American citizens and use them to buy petrol or Chinese toys. If he needs some extra, he can literally go to his basement and print some more. That's the power of your country having the hard currency.

PM Nawaz can raise taxes, collect rupees, that cannot be used anywhere but inside the country for buying and selling non-petrol, non-energy, non-tech stuff.

For everything that is energy related, tech related, Pakistan PM cannot truly use the money earned from income tax.

For that type of buying, PM sharif is dependent on Pakistanis to bring home the dollars/Euros, or get US/UK/EU loans.



It is thus complicated. very complicated.

Thus we should not use the economic models and the lingo used for US/UK/EU. As we can't print hard currency.


peace

Well. Agreed to all the models we talking bout and its application. Ur last line says printing money. I hope you know the graphical model of impact of printing paper cash vs inflation. Now how will the inflation be contained?

Internationally, it discourages investors who see countries printing hard cash. That again lead to same consequence what we were discussing earlier. ie. Lack of Investment. Question still remains: How will MoU converted into on ground facts and even if done, how will they be sustained for a longer time period?

 

[FaujHistorian]

Well. Agreed to all the models we talking bout and its application. Ur last line says printing money. I hope you know the graphical model of impact of printing paper cash vs inflation. Now how will the inflation be contained?

Internationally, it discourages investors who see countries printing hard cash. That again lead to same consequence what we were discussing earlier. ie. Lack of Investment. Question still remains: How will MoU converted into on ground facts and even if done, how will they be sustained for a longer time period?

They are sustained just like you can take a loan on your house and then continue paying it off with interest for 10, 20, or 30 years.

Just come visit Pakistan and you can see big highways built using the same model. And they are being maintained pretty good.


peace.


p.s. Yes I agree printing paper/cloth money has its downside. But if my study is right, US/UK/and EU all are printing money even if there is fear of inflation. But to prop up their economies, they continue to do so.

 

[WAR-rior]

They are sustained just like you can take a loan on your house and then continue paying it off with interest for 10, 20, or 30 years.

Just come visit Pakistan and you can see big highways built using the same model. And they are being maintained pretty good.


peace.


p.s. Yes I agree printing paper/cloth money has its downside. But if my study is right, US/UK/and EU all are printing money even if there is fear of inflation. But to prop up their economies, they continue to do so.

Indeed they do but they bring back wealth within stipulated time to fill in the hollow created by printing paper money. Even India does but they refill it by infusement of Dollors by either FDI or Remittance. Unfortunately Pakistan let the loop incomplete and hence correct it by rise in Inflation.

Again, I disagree that Pakistan will sustain this model just coz it has done it till date. If you see the same model has not actually sustained but punished back with high rise in Inflation. Now there is a limit to Inflation. If crossed the threshold, the economy collapses. Thats where my worries are.

 

[FaujHistorian]

Indeed they do but they bring back wealth within stipulated time to fill in the hollow created by printing paper money. Even India does but they refill it by infusement of Dollors by either FDI or Remittance. Unfortunately Pakistan let the loop incomplete and hence correct it by rise in Inflation.

Again, I disagree that Pakistan will sustain this model just coz it has done it till date. If you see the same model has not actually sustained but punished back with high rise in Inflation. Now there is a limit to Inflation. If crossed the threshold, the economy collapses. Thats where my worries are.

Pakistan and Indian gov follow the same model.

The difference is that Pakistanis need to follow the way chinese, south koreans, Indians work hard as global citizens and bring hard currency home.

NRI and NRP follow the same model too.

The difference is in the export of goods and services and tourism. India beats us in these three fields when it comes to earning hard currency.


peace

 

[forcetrip]

Just heard in on a Pakistani Talkshow some senior columnist quoted it. Also inflation can be calculated in different ways. as per WPI, CPI, Nominal, etc. Dont know which one was that person explicitly mentioning. But again, Inflation of Pakistani in Indeed very very high and thats where my argument start. What if it incereases more.

Inflation in Pakistan is actually lower than India. Not that I want to compare or anything but saying its very very high sounds factually and empirically wrong.

To the point of, Will inflation increase? Yes it will, because of the reasons you listed before. Saying it is out of control would mean a financial meltdown has already taken place and inflation is going to hit 50% which does not seem to be the case since I do buy and sell stuff from the country you mentioned, and I do have to track changes in prices everyday for the past 4 years. Now tracking global money trends is definitely a bleak picture which I would discuss some other time.

 

[Contrarian]

Well said.


Many Pakistanis don't realize the enormous amount of hard currency that Indian government has. All thanks to the humble hard working global citizens of India.

Just like in daily life, if the seller knows you got cash, it will try to sell you top of the line stuff (cars, computers, factories, even nuclear plants).

However if the seller realizes you are not hard currency cash rich, the motivation level will obviously impacted.

The thing is they are making and paying for Metro in Bangladesh as well. BD has lower forex,etc than Pakistan.

Thus my question - why are they not committing properly to Pakistan. JICA tries to help everybody!

 

[FaujHistorian]

The thing is they are making and paying for Metro in Bangladesh as well. BD has lower forex,etc than Pakistan.

Thus my question - why are they not committing properly to Pakistan. JICA tries to help everybody!

It could be pressure from the Pakistani gov.

I am just guessing.


Shabaz Sharif has this going with Turks for bus system.

He did make statements during election season (well what else we should expect from politicians) that he wants to see the same system in Karachi.

In fact if I remember it right, he said, if it was their gov back then, he would have built the bus system in Karachi first.


Lahore Second.




So that type of factor may be playing in the picture.

But then it is all guess work.


Metro off course is very very expensive. my hats off to BDesh if they are committing to that type of project. Because it is nice to have good metro system for a large city.

Who knows 20 years from now we may see one in Karachi too.


peace

 

[Contrarian]

It could be pressure from the Pakistani gov.
I am just guessing.
Shabaz Sharif has this going with Turks for bus system.

He did make statements during election season (well what else we should expect from politicians) that he wants to see the same system in Karachi.

In fact if I remember it right, he said, if it was their gov back then, he would have built the bus system in Karachi first.

Lahore Second.
So that type of factor may be playing in the picture.

But then it is all guess work.

Something is wrong in this.
JICA almost forced India to build the Metro by showing the GoI and Govt of Delhi study after study indicating that Light Rail and Circular Rail are not substitutes for a Metro and neither is BRT.

You know that we share the same breed of politicians. Eventually the politicos agreed and Delhi Metro was born.

Why are they not forcing your govt? In the long run, Pakistan will be better off by having a Metro network first and building peripherial networks of BRT and Light Rail later. Our population is increasing at such a rate that these simply dont cut it in themselves.

If any of you folks are connected to the politicos in Karachi, this is something you should rake up.

Anyway, JICA now has so high a goodwill in India that whatever they propose, the politicians generally agree to it blindly. Our own govt studies are generally simply to corroborate what JICA has said. India recently became Japan's largest recipient for JICA grants. We are soaking up most of their funds for development. Out of a $90 billion Delhi Mumbai Industrial Corridor, over $80 billion dollars are being financed by them.

Metro off course is very very expensive. my hats off to BDesh if they are committing to that type of project. Because it is nice to have good metro system for a large city.

Who knows 20 years from now we may see one in Karachi too.
peace

God knows Dhaka needs it. I have never been to a more congested city in my life.
Unlike India and Pakistan, Bangladesh has just one mega city - Dhaka and no other major cities.
So people flock to Dhaka from every part of Bangladesh.

Thankfully, only now are their other cities coming up in prominence - very slowly though.

Dhaka definitely needs it most in the entire South Asia.

 

[WAR-rior]

Inflation in Pakistan is actually lower than India. Not that I want to compare or anything but saying its very very high sounds factually and empirically wrong.

To the point of, Will inflation increase? Yes it will, because of the reasons you listed before. Saying it is out of control would mean a financial meltdown has already taken place and inflation is going to hit 50% which does not seem to be the case since I do buy and sell stuff from the country you mentioned, and I do have to track changes in prices everyday for the past 4 years. Now tracking global money trends is definitely a bleak picture which I would discuss some other time.

Sorry bro but you need to update some facts.

Pakistan Inflation Rate | Actual Value | Historical Data | Forecast

India Inflation Rate | Actual Value | Historical Data | Forecast

The point is how are fundamentals of any economy? I am not sure bout Pakistan. I can only say that Pakistan is currently is such a catch 22 situation that if it invests without improving the market fundamentals, its gonna suffer and if it doesnt invest, it fears stagnancy of economy and pressure on growing population. Thats where people like Hassan Nisar sound credible bout the basics of this country.

 

[forcetrip]

Fair enough. Thanks for the links. Its a much better picture with a timeline. This is just the CPI. Not sure if we need to consider other indexes as well.