2nd pilot

[khanmubashir]

1. The dog fight happened in Pakistani air space. There must be some video of other aircraft.
2. Pakistan has black box of MIG. 21, It can show the recording.
3. Why should Pakistan concern for Indian satisfaction. Rather it should try to satisfy global media.

There was no Indian government claim as you suggested. It were TV channels. Indian government only claimed that it has lost a mig 21 and Pilot is lost. When Pakistan declared that it has Indian pilot in its custody, Indian government again issued the statement that it is trying to ascertain the facts. It never never ever claimed that downed MIG was F16.


OK. leave it if it is inconclusive. But you have more strong evidence like black box recording of MIG 21 and dead body of the pilot. You can show it to the world.


Leave it. This is a different debate which is almost settled. The issue we debating about is identity of other jet and it's pilot. My take is Pakistan has enough evidence to clear the air. It should bring forward those evidences and end this debate once for all.

I don't think so. ISPR has changed its version many times while Indian government never changed. Pakistan is sitting on the concrete evidences and not showing to world media. It should release the cat out of bag and shut our mouth once for all.

Maybe Pakistani holding onto to black box and other pilot evidence and plan to release em at final days of elections campaign to influence outcome
If we release it now modi and his media would spin new bs to calm chutya bhkats

2nd pilot identity , "nationality "will be shown at the time and place of our choosing .......

Perhaps near indian elections day

Like how Pakistan allegedly refused to acknowledged that its soldiers were used and killed in Kargil till 2010? That Indian Army gave them an honorouble burial when PA refused to accept their bodies? Or the 71's war when Pakistan was winning till Dec 15th? India took 2 hours to verify the status of Abhinandan. It has to ascertain whether he was captured and that's normal time. And as per protocol, only after his family was informed in person, was the media interaction to agree to the capture took place.

I will give it to Pakistan for successfully creating an information warfare wing and creating its mirage and I do admire it. India is going court for alleged RAW spy. Democracy is quite strong in India and hence we are discussing National security issues like Rafale in open media. If the GoI hides something like this, it is the end of this govt. And it cannot be hidden. The Parliamentary committee on Defence had already grilled the Force Chief. There is some level of transparency in India even in Military matters. You cannot simply hide the loss of an jet and a Pilot who is also an officer. His family would be in streets by now protesting for him.

So the onus is on Pakistan is to prove the 2nd pilot is Indian theory is true. Until then, India is hiding its losses is BS theory with all due respect.

Sonny we took back Sher khan and few other bodies u had in 99 and he was given nishan e Haider in 99 not 2009
Google
but we can. Only take our soldier Bodies not propaganda wrapped in green flag which faces u even didn't show to red Cross

FYI even if the home country doesn't accept em u by international law hand it over to red Cross /UN .
Like we gave yr kargil shot pilots to red Cross since yr gov didn't wanna take em back directly as we wanted to make it a photo shoot as we did of abjinanden so we handed em over to red Cross from where u took em Google
If u really have em then Sonny

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

They are speaking hindko. Which I understand a little. I think they are talking about how the pilots were shooting their pistols at people.

Oh well ,mob talking about firing on the other one at the end of video. Which confirms the other sod died on ventilator.

When Indian establishment is going to owe their second pilot which is now dead?

This is no stage thing. It's a spontaneous video made by someone in mob.

About time the bhakts and ordinary Indians start asking questions from their government and air force in particular.

They have lost their pilot and not even acknowledging him.

 

[M.Bison]

1. The dog fight happened in Pakistani air space. There must be some video of other aircraft.
2. Pakistan has black box of MIG. 21, It can show the recording.
3. Why should Pakistan concern for Indian satisfaction. Rather it should try to satisfy global media.

There was no Indian government claim as you suggested. It were TV channels. Indian government only claimed that it has lost a mig 21 and Pilot is lost. When Pakistan declared that it has Indian pilot in its custody, Indian government again issued the statement that it is trying to ascertain the facts. It never never ever claimed that downed MIG was F16.


OK. leave it if it is inconclusive. But you have more strong evidence like black box recording of MIG 21 and dead body of the pilot. You can show it to the world.


Leave it. This is a different debate which is almost settled. The issue we debating about is identity of other jet and it's pilot. My take is Pakistan has enough evidence to clear the air. It should bring forward those evidences and end this debate once for all.

I don't think so. ISPR has changed its version many times while Indian government never changed. Pakistan is sitting on the concrete evidences and not showing to world media. It should release the cat out of bag and shut our mouth once for all.

ISPR has not changed its version. General Gafoor said they were investigating the other pilots and will let us know when new development comes up. He confirmed the 1 pilot and said 1 is in the hospital which was later confirmed as dead. He also said that F-16 was not used at all but I have a feeling that you don't believe that part of his narrative.

Heres the point. Pakistan doesn't care about Indian view point. It only cares to portray India as an aggressor and itself as a peace loving nation. Which is the truth and that's why I mentioned the 350 "terrorist". Pakistan has done that internationally, nationally and to the Indian public. It doesn't need to bring out black boxes or other pilots. Why doesn't Pakistan just invite the whole Indian nation to its PAF head quarters and serve them tea while they take notes about Pakistani equipment and tactics. I mean come on guy think for a second.

The cat is already out of the bag. Pakistan has shown India's true face to her supporters and her allies. Soon all her neighbors will start to test the waters and this "dominant" image will be thrown into the garbage where it belongs. You will see the true India once USA leaves Afghanistan. Make sure you vote modi at the ballot box.

 

[CHACHA"G"]

If you see the video, a person is indicating where the second jet is fallen and the crowd is moving towards that direction. It means the jet was fallen in side Pakistan.

Now, as for the second pilot, crowd has seen two pilots descending and it just assumed that both are Indians. It may be Pakistani also.

Only one nation which has both, the debris and the pilots in their possession, can clear the situation; and it is Pakistan.
Indian representative tomorrow has dared Pakistan to show the wreckage of planes and body of pilot to the world media if it claim it has shot two Indian jets.

Now don't say that other jet crashed in side Indian Kashmir, because in this video some one is clearly indicating the direction of second fallen jet and crowd is rushing towards that direction. It means that both the jets have fallen in side Pakistan.

Now the onus is on Pakistan to show the wreckage and body of second jet to world media and close this debate once for all.

watch again...….. you will understand that jet fallen other side of the mountain (the sign the guy was making), and the piolet is on our side ,, some even said (in the end) 3rd piolet...…….. most probably went down with jet

 

[CrazyZ]

We know two aircraft were shot down based on the claims of both sides. I think the must likely candidate for the second aircraft shot down is an SU30MKI. My rational:

1. There multiple IAF aircraft sent to engage the PAF, Abhi had to have a wingman. If the PAF aircraf were in position to shoot him down, his wingman was under the same threat.
2. No pictures of F-16 wreckage exist. I doubt the villagers knew the difference between F-16 or Mig21 wreckage when taking the pictures. Indian attempts to show the wreckage pics as F-16 has been proven false by third parties.
3. The Su30MKI has a large strong airframe that could have remained intact after being hit... so its flight path could have taken it into India as described by DG ISPR.
   
4. The IAF admitted that a SU30MKI was fired on and found the a missile fragment the next day. The only way the IAF could have found that missile fragment so quickly was if the fragment was embedded in the SU30MKI fuselage and found in the wreckage.
5. Indian air defenses were confused by PAF EW...That's clear from the MI-17 friendly fire incident. Can their electronic signature records be trusted?
   
6. Bagdum locals only saw 4 bodies being removed from the Mi-17 crash yet officially, 7 fatalities were reported 6 IAF personnel and 1 civilian. There were multiple pilots in the M-17 crash, why so many? The IAF could have used the MI-17 crash to hide its combat losses including the mystery dead pilot.

 

[Narcissist]

I’m surprised they all speak Punjabi.

It burns your ears. Bundjabi the lower class language...

 

[Amaa'n]

mujhe tou sirf P*&$^ L*** hi sunai diya

why is it so hard for us to let this one go, look at Indians, they follow their Govt's statement with eyes close even when no evidence has been produced by them......

 

[SorryNotSorry]

It burns your ears. Bundjabi the lower class language...

Lol. . Personally I think Punjabi and it’s derivatives sound beautiful.
What’s “Bundjabi”?

 

[Arulmozhi Varman]

Maybe Pakistani holding onto to black box and other pilot evidence and plan to release em at final days of elections campaign to influence outcome
If we release it now modi and his media would spin new bs to calm chutya bhkats


Perhaps near indian elections day


Sonny we took back Sher khan and few other bodies u had in 99 and he was given nishan e Haider in 99 not 2009
Google
but we can. Only take our soldier Bodies not propaganda wrapped in green flag which faces u even didn't show to red Cross

FYI even if the home country doesn't accept em u by international law hand it over to red Cross /UN .
Like we gave yr kargil shot pilots to red Cross since yr gov didn't wanna take em back directly as we wanted to make it a photo shoot as we did of abjinanden so we handed em over to red Cross from where u took em Google
If u really have em then Sonny

Sher Khan was given the Nishan e Haider cos he was a Captain, an officer. And he received the award cos Indian troops told about his bravery to Pakistani troops. His whole company was dead. Pls do not insult the martyrs of Pakistani soldiers of 1999 by telling you accepted a select few... SHoo...

 

[SorryNotSorry]

Do you know urdu? Haven't heard a single word of punjabi in video. Everyone talking in urdu.

They are using many Punjabi words. I guess they’re speaking a mix.

 

[Arulmozhi Varman]

Indian democracy is a huge hoax. Modi is a known terrorist and until his election he was listed as such by many countries. He was actually banned from visiting the US and UK. That is a testament to how poorly democracy works in India. Look at what India is doing in Kashmir. I hope Modi gets elected again because once he does then you will realize how dead Indian democracy is. Then you can burn it's dead body and throw it in the Ganges river so the flesh eating turtles can eat it and shit out a "hindu" state.

Pakistan does not have to prove anything to India. Indian government and its media are trying to fool the population into believing that it is a super power. In reality India is a tyrannical regime that has used the poor people in its country to prop up a few rich brahmins.

Like how GW Bush was US president even though he made a mistake of invasion of Iraq though he had no known proof of Nuclear weapons or Saddam helping Al-Queda. Modi was in trial nearly all his life, in courts, media and he proved his innocence in SC twice under Congress governments. So it doesnt really matter what you think. We elected a "clean" person as our PM. Second you have no right to talk on Indian democracy process, as your country have been a democracy for what? 15 years max?

 

[Maarkhoor]

India always use Sikhs at front line.

They considered them disposable.

 

[JF-17ThunderBlock3]

If you see the video, a person is indicating where the second jet is fallen and the crowd is moving towards that direction. It means the jet was fallen in side Pakistan.

Now, as for the second pilot, crowd has seen two pilots descending and it just assumed that both are Indians. It may be Pakistani also.

Only one nation which has both, the debris and the pilots in their possession, can clear the situation; and it is Pakistan.
Indian representative tomorrow has dared Pakistan to show the wreckage of planes and body of pilot to the world media if it claim it has shot two Indian jets.

Now don't say that other jet crashed in side Indian Kashmir, because in this video some one is clearly indicating the direction of second fallen jet and crowd is rushing towards that direction. It means that both the jets have fallen in side Pakistan.

Now the onus is on Pakistan to show the wreckage and body of second jet to world media and close this debate once for all.

Have you ever been to Kashmir Border. Area is mountainous so even if someone suggesting on that side , its generally on the back hill. thus never confirms if the landed debris is cleanly dropped on this side or Kashmir or other.

 

[Narcissist]

Lol. . Personally I think Punjabi and it’s derivatives sound beautiful.
What’s “Bundjabi”?

Ok. ***-river.

I'm only joking. But it's okay, Pakistanis cracking jokes on one another is fine, indiot cracking jokes on Pakistanis is not.

They consider the disposable.

So do I.

 

[Republic]

Have you ever been to Kashmir Border. Area is mountainous so even if someone suggesting on that side , its generally on the back hill. thus never confirms if the landed debris is cleanly dropped on this side or Kashmir or other.

As a matter of fact, Two complete tenure.
If you are following the thread you must have known that I am not arguing about whose jet or pilot was second unfortunate plane. This debate will never end until Pakistan present conclusive evidence it has.
And that is my point of the argument....
As why Pakistan is not presenting dead body of pilot and black box of MIG. Pakistan should present these things to world media and close the debate once for all.