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27 Feb 19: PAF shot down two Indian aircrafts inside Pakistani airspace: DG ISPR

guys, just trying to understand the extent of the intrusion.. How far away is balakote from the LOC? Crowflight terms?

A divided village at both sides of LOC. This is the Balakot in questioned while your media is adding up lies about a Balakot city in KP which is 60- 70 + km away from the LOC.
 
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Now that's some utter bullshit... I have seen raids by US....in Afghanistan our airforce in swat Waziristan etc... Never claimed anything above 20-30 casualties..a single sortie killing 300 is really fishy
 
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A divided village at both sides of LOC. This is the Balakot in questioned while your media is adding up lies about a Balakot city in KP which is 60- 70 + km away from the LOC.
So the strike in your side of kashmir and not KPK?

Chest thumping from both sides aside - Were there SAMs fired, as they should be when the alert level is highest... Scrambling is 1960s and too late in modern warfare.. Am just trying to understand the narrative from pakistan side.. Shouldn't a question be asked, if it was KPK balakote that Indian jets dropped anything on?
 
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didn't you read it fully? that's what we have been saying that there is no infrastructure loss or human loss but you did infiltrate inside our territory..
You expect your defence forces to release numbers and lose even more dignity ?
 
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So the strike in your side of kashmir and not KPK?

Chest thumping from both sides aside - Were there SAMs fired, as they should be when the alert level is highest... Scrambling is 1960s and too late in modern warfare.. Am just trying to understand the narrative from pakistan side.. Shouldn't a question be asked, if it was KPK balakote that Indian jets dropped anything on?

SAMs doesn't covered entire LOC. Actually IAF did tried to sneaked in, but when they spotted PAF jets approaching towards them, they ran away. One of your plane dropped a fuel tank at the reported village. The incursion was probably 3-4 km inside Pakistani LOC. Over all, IAF tried to get in but they couldn't.

Also some sources of your govt is quoting a hilarious figure of 200-300 + militants death along with of 1000 kg bombs dropping off...well if that would had been the case, it would had left a huge destruction for everyone to picture.
 
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Now that's some utter bullshit... I have seen raids by US....in Afghanistan our airforce in swat Waziristan etc... Never claimed anything above 20-30 casualties..a single sortie killing 300 is really fishy

Bro, news channels and their SOURCES... Try to understand... they have a 24×7 news channel...
Just wait for few more hours... you will start getting animations depicting the attack...

No number is given by the government or IAF...
 
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Few things to note apart from the lulz

1. 'dropped payload' - lol its obvious why you have to coin it this way. If it were em drop tankks you could have simply waited for confirmation, call it that. No need to hurry. I mean you are the DG ispr, you must be careful about what you dishout. Also to note is the initial flurry of information & first recognition came from him. He being good at what he does, tried to save face as much as possible & put out the statement before the Indian side could give it their color. To put this in ambiguously vague statement is simply a nod, acceptance that strikes indeed happened.

2. Its 'bala kot near loc', few fanboys are pushing this just to save face. First of all this balakot lies on our side. there is no JeM there or dont need to fly through AJK to get there. Anyway this is from last year.


The balakot we are talking about lies in NWFP near mansehra. It has been a hotbed of terrorist training place for decades, not just from JeM but others too. A simple google search can attest that. Also anyone from either side who keeps a tab about these things knows this. from 2009

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''Jaish e mohammed has a strong foothold in the region even though it operates chiefly from balakot (NWFP)"

* DG ISPR statement tells "payload dropped in balakot" (yh they were dropping droptanks on jem site lol)
* Indian side statement says they attacked JeM in Balakot. So, nothing there to disagree

3. The main contention in this event hasnt even been discussed here till now. Now that we have established, strikes indeed happened on jem(pakistani memebers wud agree), this is a major policy change. Even surgical strike was one thing, but airstrike inside enemy territory is another thing. Even Pakistan did anticipate something like surgical strikes and took measures too. But never anticipated this. We have indeed caught them offguard. This is a major overt manoeuvre, that whether or not you admit to folly, we are gonna strike you when we deem see fit, inside your own territory including airstrikes. This isnt a small fit.

4. Also the manoeuvre isnt just military one, diplomatic one too. this isnt a small incident, had pakistan even attempted something like this, you would have all major sides condemning it to hell. But not a peep to India, not from anybody, not even your usual "condemn both sides, they should keep calm, engage in dialogue" blal bla etc. Also to draw your attention this just happened last week.
Washington: The United Nations has become an important battleground for a pushback against China, whose sponsorship and protection of Pakistan came under pressure from the combined diplomatic heft of the United States, India and France.

The latest example was the UN Security Council’s first ever condemnation of a terrorist attack in Jammu and Kashmir despite persistent Chinese objections.

No statements were issued in the past – neither after Pathankot nor after Uri. The UNSC said nothing when the J&K state legislature complex was targeted in 2001 by Jaish-e-Mohammed. The UN’s most powerful body stayed away from events in “disputed” territories.

The firm statement on the Pulwama attack is a move forward – it draws a clearer line on terrorism and embarrasses China for the company it keeps.

China used every trick in the book first to prevent the statement from being issued, then to argue for a minor two-line reaction and finally to water it down. But its moves were systematically countered and the result was unanimous condemnation.

“The real heavy lifting was done by the US,” a UN observer close to the negotiations said. “Uncle Sam went with his hack saw and got results.”

The UNSC abandoned the standard template it normally uses to condemn attacks anywhere and broke new ground by using sharp, expansive language to deny cover to Pakistan.

Also read | After Mass Arrests, Official Orders to Stock Medicines, Food Fuel Panic in Kashmir

The statement challenges orthodoxies and establishes a new narrative, that attacks on a country’s security forces can also count as terrorism. In the past, the UN restricted itself to condemning terrorist attacks only against civilians.

"But getting there wasn’t easy. China blocked and undermined the US-led effort for six long days to protect Pakistan until it couldn’t. US negotiators, working in consultation with Indian diplomats, pushed back, leaving Beijing no room to manoeuvre".

First, China wanted to use the term “Indian-administered Kashmir” instead of Jammu and Kashmir. Then it didn’t want to name the terrorist group even though JeM had claimed responsibility for the Pulwama attack in which more than 40 Central Reserve Police Force personnel were killed. The Chinese were directed to the JeM video to update themselves, officials in New York told The Wire.

In fact, China objected to using the term “terrorist” to describe the February 14 attack on the grounds that UN Secretary General Antonio Guterres hadn’t used the word in his initial statement on February 15. That was easily fixed when Guterres issued a new statement on February 20, calling it a “terrorist attack”.

Incidentally, the second Guterres statement came after Pakistan’s ambassador Maleeha Lodhi had handed over a letter from her foreign minister pleading for the UN to intervene and blaming India for “escalating the situation”.

What Lodhi got was the reverse – fingers were pointed at Pakistan instead. “It was almost Shakespearean – hoist with her own petard,” a UN observer said.


The UNSC statement overcomes “cleavages” that in the past prevented outright condemnation of attacks in J&K by Pakistan-based terrorist groups.

The first is the narrative of terrorist vs freedom fighter, a line that Pakistan has used to find sympathy among UN members by highlighting the heavy Indian army presence as an “occupation force” in J&K. The condemnation puts that dichotomy firmly to rest for now. A terrorist is a terrorist is a terrorist.

The UNSC statement stressed that “any acts of terrorism are criminal and unjustifiable, regardless of their motivation, wherever, whenever and by whomsoever committed.” This doesn’t leave much room for Pakistan to push the “freedom fighter” argument to justify terrorism.

The second fault line that India always ran into was the tendency within the UN to stay away from taking a strong position on “disputed” territories whose final status was yet to be determined. No more. The statement treats the attack as an event that took place in an Indian state, not in a disputed region, which is a big setback to Pakistan.

The statement asked all UN member countries to help the government in charge, directing them to “cooperate actively with the government of India” to hold the “perpetrators, organizers, financiers and sponsors of these reprehensible acts of terrorism accountable and bring them to justice.”

“This is not an insignificant gain,” a UN observer told The Wire. “The UNSC statement has brought J&K into the normal discussion on terrorism. Now terrorism in J&K is equivalent to terrorism in France.”

So what changed? An official said there was a feeling that “enough is enough” and UN members saw the rage in India. The Chinese realised the cost of protecting Pakistan was getting too high in this instance.

So the UNSC statement that china stalled for a week, came out with:
a. Recognising J&K, Not using "Ind/pk administed kashmir''
b. Attack on security forces considered terrorist attack, which previously wasnt the case.
c. recognising jem & targeting Pakistan

Now after the incident they have highlighted this to China. It is for both Indian & Pakistanis to see what the all weather friend does now. Dont expect much though. They will probably keep silent like the chinese posters here.:whistle:

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5. Another major issue to discuss is how IAF caught PAF offguard. It surely must not have been easy. PAF is a professional force, well equipped to 'defend' Pakistan atleast. But they failed here, monumentally. I think fatigue played a key role. I think they played it to IAF's hand. PDF was abuzz with jets sighting/roaring since last week. I thinkIAF wanted that to happen. Anyway, I think this matter is better discussed when things cool down, will get unbiased inputs from experts here.
 
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