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20 most decisive battles of the world.

It was not merely winter. Hitler's misadventure in Kiev slowed Army Group Center's drive to Moscow, and gave Russian's enough time to consolidate defences around Moscow. It's a combination of Winter and Russian resistance which stopped the Germans, we should not take away the Russian efforts.

true because unlike the napoleon campain when the Russians preferred to draw back & use scorched earth policy, against the germans they preferred to stand and fight.
 
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true because unlike the napoleon campain when the Russians preferred to draw back & use scorched earth policy, against the germans they preferred to stand and fight.

They had little option, unlike Napoleon's Armies you must be aware how the Germans treated the 'Inferior Jewish Bolsheviks'. Russia suffered horribly during Barbarossa. They had to fight or die.
 
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partially you are correct BUT the major thing was that initally germany was succesful but once the winter set in the army was ill equipped for winter. in terms of clothing guns & tanks.
Germany was successfull, but still they seriously lagged behind the planned schedule. Soviet leadership did not collapse, industries were evacuated, new and new troops were mobilised. Barbarossa failed well before the winter.
 
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What is the significance of Hastings? Can you elaborate on how the current world is influenced by the Normans?

Sir, what would be your view on this? I have little information on this so yours and Austerlitz's views would be very welcome.

The language you are posting in


In WWI the Germans knock out the Russians ( The also played a big part in Russia becoming the "Soviet Union."

Could you kindly elaborate, what would have happened if King Harold had won? What would be different then?


These excursions into parallel history, the history of what might have been, are always slippery constructs, liable to slip out of one's mental grip and fall and shatter into a thousand little pieces on encountering some fact somewhere else which had not been taken into account. They are also quite worthless, of course. What happened, happened, and is not going to un-happen anytime.

When William beat Harold, William gained an extra centre of power, which he and his descendants built into a platform for conquering the rest of the British Isles, more or less. That gave them a firm base from which to look at the rest of the world, and to decide where to be seen and to be heard. They were secure, far more than they would have been in Normandy.

They also built a military power; the combination of French, or rather Norman-French panache and Anglo-Saxon phlegm seems to have amalgamated into a very potent fighting combination. As someone somewhere said, the Europeans scored over the rest of the world because of their mastery of organised violence.

They had a strong incentive to go to the sea, as a nation. I am told that no part of Britain is very far from the sea; some accounts say 72 miles, some say 90. At any rate, enough so that there is a fad in Britain that to be seen messing around in little boats over a weekend is seen to be very 'in', very normal activity. Just think how many Indians would voluntarily get into a boat and sail out, in spite of the enormous length of coast that we have. Or Pakistani, considering that they have a stretch from the Rann of Kutch right out to the Iranian coast. Or Bangladesh, considering that we were practically a nation floating on water.

One of the main products of Britain was wool, grown on sheep, grazed on large fields, and processed through complex processes, a vital product in the cold of northern Europe. The need to control this, the animals, the fields, laws of land tenure, the competition between farm and field, the processing of wool, first, by manual means, next, by machine-processing, exports, dealing with commercial transactions at home and abroad, the participation in the deployment of capital into trade, shipping, to carry product, created a rich environment for agricultural, industrial, commercial, financial, maritime, legislative and administrative growth.

There was nothing like this in Normandy. Nothing closer than Brabant, and it is noteworthy that the Dutch, and their neighbours, the Brabanters whom we call Belgians today, were the closest to the British in history, for years, till the British finally broke away and raced ahead only a couple of hundred years ago.

Mastery of the British Isles also meant having to deal with fishing as an industry, and with similar results as for the wool trade. It forced development in ship-building, in seamanship, in fishing agreements and treaties and laws of the sea, in processing of fish, in trade in fish, in oceanography, and in navigation. Britain shared this environment with many other nations in Europe, and the distinctive advantages, or features of Britain's position need to be thought through carefully, by comparison with other fishing nations. This is a task on its own.

The ability to settle the laws of a kingdom on their own, without being constantly subjected to interference by neighbouring monarchs, was another very significant factor behind the rise of Britain, and Hastings initiated the process, by forcing a review of land-holding and of the ownership of land, and the loyalties of those owners. No other major kingdom in Europe really got this chance, not even the de Hautevilles in Sicily, who were subject to interference from almost everybody with an idle six months on their hands. It is interesting to note that common law in Britain was influenced by fiqh law, which came in from Sicily.

I would not like to tie a ribbon around these random facts and present a neat, well-packaged conclusion, because that is really not possible. However, these points might provoke the reader to read more about Britain on his or her own, which will be a Good Thing.
 
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Could you kindly elaborate, what would have happened if King Harold had won? What would be different then?

Modern English is Germanic, but rather different because of Norman French...as an example the silent "e" in English is a Norman gift

(PS... my last name is English....but "Norman" English.
 
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no matter how much te world might hate Germany in World War 1 & 2! one thing is for sure GERMANY stood up against the whole world ALONE! its allies were weak & incompetent in both the world wars. & actually dragged germany down instead of help it. Germans at Verdun in world war 1 or the germans in Egypt in world war 2 stood out and deserved respect.

another great battle was the battle of vimmy ridge. where for the first time in 2 years the germans were pushed back.

Battle of Vimy Ridge - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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Germany was successfull, but still they seriously lagged behind the planned schedule. Soviet leadership did not collapse, industries were evacuated, new and new troops were mobilised. Barbarossa failed well before the winter.


Credit for that could be given to constant disturbances in Balkans.Battle of Greece delayed Axis Invasion by Six weeks, Perhaps the only difference between eternal Reich in 1941 and a shattered Reich in 1945.

I think the 6 day war gotta be up there.

Nah,

Didn't had a global or even long lasting regional effect.Even 1948 war is more important for the region as it was the only war in which Israelites were in threat of actually being pushed out into the sea.Also Yom-Kippur war is important as it forced Egypt to recognise Israel.

1962 war only proves the fighting poweress of Israeli army which did not have too much effect on real world as it did not stopped Egypt and syria from attacking in 1973.

So in my opinion all three battles in Israel-Arab conflict are tied with 1948 being most important followed by 1967 followed by 1973.1956 Suez crisis is only of marginal importance.

Also none of them qualifies as world's most decisive battles as they have not brought forth any sea change in order of political dominance in the world.The dominant power before and after all of these war was USA and the main theatre of action was the cold war.

am i missing something important?
 
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Credit for that could be given to constant disturbances in Balkans.Battle of Greece delayed Axis Invasion by Six weeks, Perhaps the only difference between eternal Reich in 1941 and a shattered Reich in 1945.



Nah,

Didn't had a global or even long lasting regional effect.Even 1948 war is more important for the region as it was the only war in which Israelites were in threat of actually being pushed out into the sea.Also Yom-Kippur war is important as it forced Egypt to recognise Israel.

1962 war only proves the fighting poweress of Israeli army which did not have too much effect on real world as it did not stopped Egypt and syria from attacking in 1973.

So in my opinion all three battles in Israel-Arab conflict are tied with 1948 being most important followed by 1967 followed by 1973.1956 Suez crisis is only of marginal importance.

Also none of them qualifies as world's most decisive battles as they have not brought forth any sea change in order of political dominance in the world.The dominant power before and after all of these war was USA and the main theatre of action was the cold war.

am i missing something important?
What about Dien Bien Phu?
 
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What about Dien Bien Phu?

Cannot be called as a battle which had world altering impact...

It's impact was limited to Vietnam.

And going by the current thaw that is setting in US-Viet relations,it may just translate into just some missed decades in US-Vietnam relation.

PS. Dien Bien Phu was a France Vs Viet minh battle but i am viewing it from angle of US-Viet relations as lead to the Vietnam war which altered the geopolitics of south east Asia.
 
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Cannot be called as a battle which had world altering impact...

It's impact was limited to Vietnam.

And going by the current thaw that is setting in US-Viet relations,it may just translate into just some missed decades in US-Vietnam relation.

PS. Dien Bien Phu was a France Vs Viet minh battle but i am viewing it from angle of US-Viet relations as lead to the Vietnam war which altered the geopolitics of south east Asia.

That's why I think its a decisive battle. What do you think had French won the battle? They would have struck a deal to get out of Vietnam at their own terms. Vietnam may not have been divided. No Second Indo-China war and no US intervention in SE Asia. Communism may have expanded to other SE-Asian states. I sincerely think that the impact of Battle of Dien Bien Phu decisively influence S-E-Asian politics during the Cold-War.
 
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That's why I think its a decisive battle. What do you think had French won the battle? They would have struck a deal to get out of Vietnam at their own terms. Vietnam may not have been divided. No Second Indo-China war and no US intervention in SE Asia. Communism may have expanded to other SE-Asian states. I sincerely think that the impact of Battle of Dien Bien Phu decisively influence S-E-Asian politics during the Cold-War.


If French would have won that battle,Vietnam would have ended up in US led camp during cold war.

Hence i am assigning very little value to that battle as after 58 years of that battle,Vietnam is gravitating toward US camp because of it's tensions with China.If this come to fruition Dien Bien Phu would have delayed history only be half a decade.
 
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Credit for that could be given to constant disturbances in Balkans.Battle of Greece delayed Axis Invasion by Six weeks, Perhaps the only difference between eternal Reich in 1941 and a shattered Reich in 1945.
Credit goes to Stalin, who made a system thatdoes not collapses even after severe defeats, but keeps sending more and more and more and more...

And to moron Hitler, who started war with 200 million largest country in the world without mobilising its industries.
 
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