2 Ismaili Jamaat Khanas in Karachi attacked during prayer time

[Slav Defence]

Islam is so weak and feeble that its honour and its righteousness can be only proven by attacking temples, jamat khanas, imam barghas, shrines churches and ... and ... Mosques.

kill everyone in sight
dont spare anyone
kill anything that moves
kill and destroy every creation of God

and then only the True Islamicness can be achieved

and during this process even if one has to attack Mecca and destroy the graves in the backyard of Majid e Nabvi, then so be it.
everything done in the beginning of Islam was wrong
why waste time in preaching and talking?

just kill everyone who is not a Muslim. once done with the killing


cry a river over the Kashmir, Palestine and Burma....
wait
why cry

join the FSA and kill more in Syria.

You mis-typed, you should have used the term...'Extremism'
Now see your article again sir,

Extremism is so weak and feeble expression of weakness that its honor and its righteousness can be only proven by attacking temples, jamat khanas, imam barghas, shrines churches and ... and ... Mosques.

kill everyone in sight
dont spare anyone
kill anything that moves
kill and destroy every creation of God

and then only the True Islamicness can be achieved

and during this process even if one has to attack Mecca and destroy the graves in the backyard of Majid e Nabvi, then so be it.
everything done in the beginning of Islam was wrong
why waste time in preaching and talking?

just kill everyone who is not a Muslim. once done with the killing


cry a river over the Kashmir, Palestine and Burma....
wait
why cry

join the FSA and kill more in Syria.


Best regards,
Slav defence

 

[Dubious]

@seiko I believe you missed this post of mine:

Disgusting...these people are neither Muslims as they attack places of worship...hell they attack innocent civilians

Nor Pakistanis as they attack Pakistanis...


I hope people start giving these useless brats some other name APART FROM MUSLIMS OR PAKISTANIS!

@Slav Defence

some people cant seem to differentiate Islam and extremism

 

[Iggy]

other organizations are FLEXIBLE and allow a lot of things to be introduced and bent while Islam sticks to its doctrine!

Please not this again.. Islam as a religion has evolved a lot from what you claim to be the doctrine..

Most of the MULLAHS are in the trade either for $$ or have limited knowledge passed from parents and so on...soo people just "respect" and "listen" to them based on lineage...the guy may not even have an ounce of knowledge on Islam...SUCH people are targets!

Then again its the muslims who are doing it.. Not any other persons.. Still the blame goes to your own people right?

Like I said the guys dont have an ounce of knowledge since they know not how to react they go to their natural instincts and jsut destroy anything...Mind you that was the way the Jahil of Arabia (before Islam) showed distress...tor phor shor machana and all...

Can I just ask you HOW many of us on PDF have actually been involved in such stupid tor phor?! HOW MANY? So does it not seem obvious who these people are?

Come on!! you really want me to show you? There was a thread about a terrorist trapped in a building was shot by Indian army and you should see how the news has been manipulated because one soldier said " vahi daariwala he".. That news has so many versions of it.. As I said when it comes to religion even educated people are becoming easy victims of manipulation..

It takes 1 mad man to say something and then PROCLAIM this is against Islam...or is soo wrong WE NEED TO RIGHT it....or that teach someone a lesson....

The question is why you people are becoming victims of these kind of manipulation? This is a serious thoughts that every muslim should think about..No one can clear the bad reputation of Muslims, than Muslims themselves.. And to be frank, you will have to accept the shortcomings to do that..

Hell even when Benazir died there was soo much toor phooor....Jahils will be Jahils...kindly dont call them Muslims...

.

Even if I dont call them Muslims, they will call themselves Muslims.. Until and unless all Islamic nations and organisations stop religion as a weapon, this bad mark will always remain on your religion.. You cannot blame it on any other religion.

That is a fact....Others DID use us...

[/QUOTE]

Its only shows how vulnerable your are Talon. One can use you only when you allow them..

 

[Slav Defence]

@seiko I believe you missed this post of mine:


@Slav Defence

some people cant seem to differentiate Islam and extremism

Talon,my dear sister,don't be down hearted,the main lapse here is that now days we are seeing that extremism in Pakistan is increasing,we muslims,Pakistanis are divided into various sects and each sect is declaring each other as kafir and is introducing their own version of Islam,which has actually no relationship with actual religion descended by Allah subhana o tala years ago.
We are loosing patience and at the same time,in such deplorable condition,we are facing TTP who are themselves declaring themselves as Muslims and rest of us as kafir.

A country in which people point you out as a kafir,your friends who pray five times a day are kafir,and your worse enemy call itself as muslim,then imagine the extreme confusion of which we people of Pakistan are passing through.At this point some people got so confused(I am taking generally)that they consider Islam as a threat,because they can't find actual Islam!
They see salafi's Islam,Shia's Islam,TTP's Islam,Wahabi's Islam...where is Allah's Islam?the actual Islam?
Best Regards,
Slav defence

 

[muse]

You mis-typed, you should have used the term...'Extremism'
Now see your article again sir,

Extremism is so weak and feeble expression of weakness that its honor and its righteousness can be only proven by attacking temples, jamat khanas, imam barghas, shrines churches and ... and ... Mosques.

kill everyone in sight
dont spare anyone
kill anything that moves
kill and destroy every creation of God

and then only the True Islamicness can be achieved

and during this process even if one has to attack Mecca and destroy the graves in the backyard of Majid e Nabvi, then so be it.
everything done in the beginning of Islam was wrong
why waste time in preaching and talking?

just kill everyone who is not a Muslim. once done with the killing


cry a river over the Kashmir, Palestine and Burma....
wait
why cry

join the FSA and kill more in Syria.


Best regards,
Slav defence

Change Islam with extremism and the problem is solved -- and denialistan strengthened?

Look to your own post below:

A country in which people point you out as a kafir,your friends who pray five times a day are kafir,and your worse enemy call itself as muslim,then imagine the extreme confusion of which we people of Pakistan are passing through.At this point some people got so confused(I am taking generally)that they consider Islam as a threat,because they can't find actual Islam

Now what replace "actual islam with Real islam? or Double Real islam?

Stand face to the wind, avoid denialistan --- if it hurts that Talib are as much muslim as you are, then you must ask where is the problem and if you are willing to look everywhere except where both say they are inspired, then are you being honest??

What is it that you fear? That you will find the truth?

 

[Slav Defence]

Change Islam with extremism and the problem is solved -- and denialistan strengthened?

Look to your own post below:

A country in which people point you out as a kafir,your friends who pray five times a day are kafir,and your worse enemy call itself as muslim,then imagine the extreme confusion of which we people of Pakistan are passing through.At this point some people got so confused(I am taking generally)that they consider Islam as a threat,because they can't find actual Islam

Now what replace "actual islam with Real islam? or Double Real islam?

Stand face to the wind, avoid denialistan --- if it hurts that Talib are as much muslim as you are, then you must ask where is the problem and if you are willing to look everywhere except where both say they are inspired, then are you being honest??

What is it that you fear? That you will find the truth?

Look at my post again muse,my dear friend,I said clearly,very clearly that 'some people got confused',so those who are confused and unable to find out this fact that actual Islam has no relationship with such newly introduced versions can suffer like that.
second,if I say actual Islam,that doesn't mean:My version of Islam,or such Islam which I have extracted like that of salafis and shias,see the clear difference for yourself..there is a huge difference between this term real Islam and My version of Islam.
you took my statement in context of 'My version of Islam'


They see salafi's Islam,Shia's Islam,TTP's Islam,Wahabi's Islam...where is Allah's Islam?the actual Islam?

Here the actual islam does not mean my version of Islam,but Islam which does not say shias and others as kafir,a Islam which clearly says that that declaring anyone as kafir is a sin and who ever murdered a single man has murdered the entire humanity.
Why should I be afraid dear muse,when I don't have my own version,when I am not declaring anyone as kafir,when I am confident enough to identify the lapses and mindsets.
you see,extremism is a general term,if someone will call me a mulla just because I objected him/her then such liberal will also be referred as extremist..
Best regards

 

[muse]

you see,extremism is a general term,if someone will call me a mulla just because I objected him/her then such liberal will also be referred as extremist..
Best regards

And that's the substance of my objection, why a general term when we have a specific term - The Safafi, they have real islam, so do the Shiah, so do the talib, so does the jabha as Nusra , so does the MB, so did the FIS -- they are all real islam, because Islam is what it's adherents practice -- If you look at earlier posts, one persons said the Agha khani were educated, peace loving and friendly - that's the islam they practice, that's their understanding of Islam - now look above at all the other islams,.

We as Muslims are deeply in pain, we just cannot come to grips that we are tearing apart at the very seams - and instead of being brave enough to look at what is bringing about this dissolution, most are in denial, it's foreign influence, it's this and it's that but never the courage to look and see that we must remove if not by consensus then force of arms, because if we don't there won't be anything left, that which we identify as the cause of this bloodshed and dissolution

So what is causing this dissolution, what are Muslims killing each other and others over? They are killing each other for political power, it is because we do not agree as to whether religion has a role in governance or not - that's what they all want, right, they all want power and to cleanse society of all doctrines other than their own, right? That's the Islam they practice.

 

[Iggy]

So for the actions of Hindus should India be attacked? For actions of Buddhist should China be attacked or Burma...I am not sure if you realize the differences between a civilian and some lunatic who did those attacks?

I was giving an example based on size of the country and population India and China would be a match and not picking on smaller poorer countries...As far as I am concerned USA killed Saddam YET DID NOT LEAVE....killed Osama yet DID NOT LEAVE...DESTROYED Afghanistan YET did not leave...

Offcource, if India is actively supporting terrorism, then they have every right to defend their country.. Do you see any the country you mentioned providing arms and support to terrorist organisations to kill other people who belong to other religions? I am not sure why you are defending those who made Afghanistan a hell hole.. Destroyed Afghanistan? have you seen what Taliban were doing there?

Can I ask you why diid your ancestors fight the British? Because NO ONE tolerates foreign sh1ts in their country after a certain time period...Why overlook this in terms of AMERICA?

You are giving all kind of weird excuses defending those guys who are giving bad name to your religion and still saying that every one is hating your religion.

If we could have curbed ANYTHING we wouldnt have corrupt politicians...we wouldnt be soo left behind...Did we need America nope...we need leaders to guide us not dictators to dictate us...

You cannot blame it on politicians alone in this mess.. As I said, you are passing the buck rather than accepting the reality..

I am not sure who is a taliban...I am only vocal about the word used to describe them...Talib means student...The media just went haywire coz it didnt know the meaning of Talib and spread it as though it means terrorists when in reality it means student!

Yea, from what I see from Afghanistan and Pakistan, they sure learning a lot!!.

Mind you many did speak against it and have been for a long time..It is media who ONLY SELLS hot cakes!

No maam.. Your anger and frustrations were showered up on the wrong people.. You did not spoke against it when these kind of organisation start functioning in your country and by the time you spoke up, it was already too late.. I will tell one example.. You were burning and destroying thing when you heard Quran desecration happened. But I or any one see any of those Muslim scholars or people protest against a terrorist organisation use your Prophet name as the organisations name.. Why is that? Selective much?

People who call themselves Muslims....I can pay for something to blow up and leave a bible or Gita inside it....what will you call that?

You are now evading the actual question.. Its hard to woke up some one who is pretending to be sleep..

 

[Mercenary]

Taliban need to be wiped out.

I don't know why Pakistanis are so passive about this. Each time crap like this happens and all they do is make excuses for the Taliban and blame America, Jews, BlackWater and other boogey men for this terrorism.

Its time to use the Pakistani Army and call up the reserves and unleash them on these animals and wipe them out.

Enough is enough.

 

[Dubious]

Offcource, if India is actively supporting terrorism, then they have every right to defend their country.. Do you see any the country you mentioned providing arms and support to terrorist organisations to kill other people who belong to other religions? I am not sure why you are defending those who made Afghanistan a hell hole.. Destroyed Afghanistan? have you seen what Taliban were doing there?

At least they didnt look like they were living in caves...they may have acted like cavemen (as par AMERICAN sources and no other.... but now they look like they ACTUALLY live in caves maybe you can look the other way coz you head is sheltered with a roof....)

You are giving all kind of weird excuses defending those guys who are giving bad name to your religion and still saying that every one is hating your religion.

WHERE did I defend them? ALL I AM SAYING is YOU people AND THE MEDIA show THEM as Muslims...somehow it kills to show a smiling MUSLIM....or a Mosque go-er as a Muslim, why? why are Muslims only shown screaming, blowing themselves up, in dhoti, with dirty beards? Even in Bollywood it is shown like that!

You cannot blame it on politicians alone in this mess.. As I said, you are passing the buck rather than accepting the reality..

So can I say that it was Indians fault Pakistan asked for independence coz we couldnt tolerate your oppressions? Can I say that it was the American people who went to war with Afghan and Iraq when TENS OF THOUSANDS were protesting it on their streets for DAYS?! Was that NOT POLITICS?

Yea, from what I see from Afghanistan and Pakistan, they sure learning a lot!!.

Had Pakistan learned ANYTHING they wouldnt shake hands with USA...

No maam.. Your anger and frustrations were showered up on the wrong people.. You did not spoke against it when these kind of organisation start functioning in your country and by the time you spoke up, it was already too late..

DUDE YOU didnt even know me back then No idea what you are accusing me about?

I will tell one example.. You were burning and destroying thing when you heard Quran desecration happened.

Did I know you back then? Was I involved in that? THAT is YOUR problem...You paint everyone with the same brush! Hell I wasnt even in Pakistan back then...PLUS I didnt do any of that they did...NEITHER my family nor my neighbourhood...Soo please point your fingers elsewhere....

But I or any one see any of those Muslim scholars or people protest against a terrorist organisation use your Prophet name as the organisations name.. Why is that? Selective much?

JUST like how YOUR SCHOOL OF DEOBANDI was the only one that started screaming the min Dr. Zakir Naik said bowing to shrines is a shirkh! Care to elaborate how they acted?

You are now evading the actual question.. Its hard to woke up some one who is pretending to be sleep..

Nope I am showing you equal examples WHICH YOU ARE EVADING and failing to see the bigger pix!

 

[SQ8]

did Prophet Muhammad PBUH have an easy life? (even after establishing Islamic order in Madina & Mecca?
why did he have to suffer the violent death of his Uncle (& cannibalism by Hind) because the greed got the better of "Muslim" archers who disobeyed the direct order and started looting after the pretend retreat of the Meccans. why did he have to suffer the constant conspiracies of hypocrites in Madina who even built a mosque for that reason?

ask ourselves and try to find the reason why 3 out of the first 4 Caliphs had to die a violent death without any fault of their own? and why only in few decades Muslims found it essential to wipe out Prophet's entire family?

are these questions contemptuous? why should we take offence when even Hazrat Omar R.A didnt take offence and decided to explain that the reason he had enough cloth to make his dress was that his son had gifted him his share?

There is one question I.B. Would you weigh the actions of the Archers at Uhud for the loot, and the spread the same accusation and guilt to the Prophet himself?

 

[Irfan Baloch]

There is one question I.B. Would you weigh the actions of the Archers at Uhud for the loot, and the spread the same accusation and guilt to the Prophet himself?

the fault is with the insolent Muslims , not the teacher
doing what you suggested is equal to blasphemy and very much against the basic faith that the Prophet Muhammad PBUH is ma'soom and infallible.

I draw a life of difference between the Muslims of the time of the Prophet Muhammad PBUH and the Muslims of today.
the acts of some groups or Individuals during and immediately after the time of Muhammad PBUH are not exception to the rule that it was indeed a peaceful religion of equality, respect and fairness and there are dark spot.

its not just the tragedy of Karbala or accusing Hazrat Ali r.a over the murder of Hazrat Usman r.a and throwing the Muslim Ummah into a civil war but even later on there are stories of people in power doing things which are hard to explain to our own selves let alone to non- Muslims. take example of Abbasi "caliphate" time when the graves of the Umayat dynasty were desecrated (maybe a practice follower by Sawati Taliban where they desecrated the graves of some Sufi saints).

what does it all have to do with an attack on a place of worship of Agha Khanis you say.. I say its not all that random and dates back to the very feud of the ancient Islam which has trickled down to present times. see the results now re TTP
cant blame our Prophet Muhammad PBUH or his Sahabah r.a for that.

 

[SQ8]

the fault is with the insolent Muslims , not the teacher
doing what you suggested is equal to blasphemy and very much against the basic faith that the Prophet Muhammad PBUH is ma'soom and infallible.

I draw a life of difference between the Muslims of the time of the Prophet Muhammad PBUH and the Muslims of today.
the acts of some groups or Individuals during and immediately after the time of Muhammad PBUH are not exception to the rule that it was indeed a peaceful religion of equality, respect and fairness and there are dark spot.

its not just the tragedy of Karbala or accusing Hazrat Ali r.a over the murder of Hazrat Usman r.a and throwing the Muslim Ummah into a civil war but even later on there are stories of people in power doing things which are hard to explain to our own selves let alone to non- Muslims. take example of Abbasi "caliphate" time when the graves of the Umayat dynasty were desecrated (maybe a practice follower by Sawati Taliban where they desecrated the graves of some Sufi saints).

what does it all have to do with an attack on a place of worship of Agha Khanis you say.. I say its not all that random and dates back to the very feud of the ancient Islam which has trickled down to present times. see the results now re TTP
cant blame our Prophet Muhammad PBUH or his Sahabah r.a for that.

And I agree with you. Ipso facto, unless you differentiate in the blame, differentiate ideaologies. Unless identify we what the TTP take as inspiration and counter it, by identifying the section of Muslims that are NOT supporting them, and instead of branding them terrorists and extremists as well; empower them to counter these foriegn/extreme ideologies on the grass roots. If we can differentiate that what they teach is NOT Islam with enough veracity(coupled with curtailing the voices of their preachers through various means), would we not have success even with the relative simpletons and perhaps be able to cure this disease? Rather than branding the whole patient diseased and lost? After all, if there are those who do still exist and counter that ideology, would you render them naught and encompass them as lost too or would you encourage them?

 

[Irfan Baloch]

And I agree with you. Ipso facto, unless you differentiate in the blame, differentiate ideaologies.

I believe in Islam and I believe in Pakistan
so I have high hopes for both that their internal demons (people with Pakistani/ Islamic outlook causing death & destruction) will be dealt with.

indeed the entire patient is not lost. it never will. Surah Kausar addresses the Prophet Muhammad PBUH and says "Ina Shana i aka Ho Wal Abtar".


Amen to that.

my only insistence is look for the problem and solution within.

 

[Slav Defence]

And that's the substance of my objection, why a general term when we have a specific term - The Safafi, they have real islam, so do the Shiah, so do the talib, so does the jabha as Nusra , so does the MB, so did the FIS -- they are all real islam, because Islam is what it's adherents practice -- If you look at earlier posts, one persons said the Agha khani were educated, peace loving and friendly - that's the islam they practice, that's their understanding of Islam - now look above at all the other islams,.

We as Muslims are deeply in pain, we just cannot come to grips that we are tearing apart at the very seams - and instead of being brave enough to look at what is bringing about this dissolution, most are in denial, it's foreign influence, it's this and it's that but never the courage to look and see that we must remove if not by consensus then force of arms, because if we don't there won't be anything left, that which we identify as the cause of this bloodshed and dissolution

So what is causing this dissolution, what are Muslims killing each other and others over? They are killing each other for political power, it is because we do not agree as to whether religion has a role in governance or not - that's what they all want, right, they all want power and to cleanse society of all doctrines other than their own, right? That's the Islam they practice.

well said,very well said....you spoke words of my heart,you see let me give you a situation:

There is a class,in which only five students were present due to strike.Now the teacher teaches them a formula of making salt,he said:

Na(-)+Cl(+)----->Nacl

Now those students who weren't present are instructed to consult those five students only who were present that day.
So,four category of students are observed:

1)Top students:

Such keen students,immediately consulted to them and copied.

2)Average students

Such students who didn't,they consulted to their tutor and get their own version:

Cl(-)+Na(+)---->Nacl


3)Poor students:

These students copied wrong equation from notes,as they ignored some important charges of it:

Na+cl--->Nacl (ignored + and -,thus they write it in molecular form rather then ionic form)


4)Confused Group

Now there is a fourth group of students who is confused of all three equation copied by number of students,instead of correcting their confusion,and consulting with actual teacher,they are fighting over versions of single equation which is copied by various class of student.
So,my dear Muse,what those students must do,if they consult with their teacher and follow actual equation,instead of fighting others,wouldn't it be much better?

Solution

Okay let us take an example of xyz student.He consulted to actual teacher,copied right equation,then he made an announcement,and warned to all students to re-check,then he left,instead of arguing around,leaving everything on other students to deal with.

Now apply this analogy on us,all of has our own equations,we all are arguing with each other,instead of simply analyzing Allah's actual statement.

Due to such confusion,many mindsets has attached the term extremism to Islam,just like atheism is sticked to liberalism.


So,I present you simple solution,re analyse Quran,not once,thrice but multiple times and you will get correct answer of your question,If you have learn to tolerate other sect that means that you have approached the actual version.

Best Regards
Slav Defence