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1987 Mein Zia Ul Haq Ne Rajiv Ghandi Ko Kia Kaha Jis Se Uski Tangein Kanp Gai ??

Hello troll tank :) We have seen your evaluations in 2002 and 2008 standoffs. We are still waiting for the day you grow a pair and do surgical strikes inside pakistan :lol:
Why would we do it? When the American are there to do the same? Not to mention whole lot of other non state actors who do it for a price?
 
Hello troll tank :) We have seen your evaluations in 2002 and 2008 standoffs. We are still waiting for the day you grow a pair and do surgical strikes inside pakistan :lol:
Well all I can say is - Try Harder...



'a simple exercise' with live ammunition ....

I was having a cup of tea, and Rajiv had a samosa in his hand. I clicked my heels and told him, “Mr. Prime Minister Sir, the Indian Army is in fine fettle and very soon we shall be past our Battle Stations”.
To this Rajiv immediately reacted and asked me what I was saying. I repeated what I had just said. This was because the Pakistan Army’s General Headquarters (GHQ) Reserves North and South were in the process of moving into their battle locations.

This was an expected move, and I said that the planning and deployments we had gone into it would be obvious Pakistan would be provoked. The greatest provocation that would strike the match was the deployment of Indian troops in positions, which would lead Pakistan to believe that India was about to attack. Rajiv was totally aghast and visibly angered with what I had just told him. He called for Defense Secretary S.K. Bhatnagar and Foreign Secretary Venkateshwaran. They got into a huddle, spoke to each other and soon thereafter Rajiv left the party and I had already scooted and asked my Staff to organize my helicopter to Rajasthan.

“General, is the Indian Army carrying live Ammunition”?

I said “Yes, we are carrying live ammunition. With the entire Indian Army deployed in the open desert, may be in an exercise configuration, if Pakistan were to attack my troops, tanks and vehicles which were out in the open, I would not want to go down in history as the General who destroyed the entire Indian Army and, as such live ammunition was being carried”.

“Is the ammunition open or in sealed boxes”?

“It is open. And it is necessary that we keep it open. While we could have used stones for ammunition movement simulation, it was necessary for us to send open ammunition forward so that our tanks and gun crews could actually receive the ammunition as it would be in a normal war”. As of now all my Tanks and weaponry are Stowed.
The above interview was broadcast on the BBC the next morning.

Our plan appeared certain to provoke Pakistan into a war with India, It would have blown up into a full-scale war in the Desert, if we had not changed our movement of the exercise from South to North.

WAR GAMES OR WAR? OPERATION BRASS TACKS (THE PLOT BEHIND) | Hoon's Legacy
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I went for the Army Day Parade to Delhi on January 15. I was there for the reception in Sundarji's house in the evening where the President, PM were there -- Rajiv had the habit of walking up and asking me: 'How is the western front?' I thought that was a very sharp question, especially when we were moving into a war situation. I said everything was going according to plan and all our troops are moving into their battle location. He asked me: 'What do you mean by battle location?' He was holding a samosa in his hand and said, 'How can we go to war?' I knew something had gone wrong.

Rediff On The NeT: The Rediff Interview/Lt General P N Hoon (retd)

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PURANA MODI .... & NAYA INDIA ....

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World of an Indian cartoonist!: Modi blames Gujarat's history of riots!

/Are you expecting me to respond?
 
No because , your Brilliant General (brilliant by Pak political standards though) mistook a simple exercise as an precursor for war. but then again your military's threat evaluation has always been exceptionally poor as seen in every conflict.

My friend, allow me to explain history that I saw directly unfold in front of me (almost). The exercises weren't just exercises. The day the exercises ended, the replenishment were going on and the idea was that the day after the Pakistani team leave's, an attack will commence at 6 PM India time.

The Pakistani military didn't have that information. However, someone took a picture of the operational plan and radio'd it over (through a Pigeon? I don't know). So including the day of the Cricket match, would give the Pakistani two days, which is nowhere enough to deploy troops to face the size of the strike cores that had already been gathered on the borders by India, and the soldiers were all freshly trained.

There was a strong concern inside the Pakistani Army that if India losses the match, some "playful" generals knowing the attack is already scheduled, would try to do that the same night (its very easy to shift blame as to what caused the attack to occur faster as Mr. Gandhi wasn't at the border). That caused more panic on the Pakistani Army's end.

Due to that, Gen. Zia told his people to assemble the flash light no matter how. And he flew to India to see the match. This was JUST to buy time. At the end of the match, he did tell Rajeev about the flash lights, which might be used as Pakistan had no way to counter India at that time. He also told him that the F-16's Pakistan had, were already modified to carry the flash lights to across the border.

Which, when Rajeev spoke to his generals about, they agreed to, as they know Pakistan was working with her nuke stuff extremely fast. Anyway, that ended those plans to attack Pakistan. This threat was immediately conveyed to the US embassy pretty late in the evening and to other foreign diplomats to gain political support.

It is widely believe that due to this open threat, this incident became a setting stone for Sen. Larry Pressler's famous Pressler Amendment, which put sanctions on Pakistan, as everyone perceived them to be modifying the US equipment and building nukes. That was also why the remainder of the F-16's were never delivered; till post 2002 after President Busch lifted the sanctions.

There was one more time when similar threat was used. IA's few strike cores were ready to attack Kashmir on one side and Rajisthan on the other. Pakistan was barely finishing up the Afghan war and was dealing with millions of refugees all of a sudden so the military was spread too thin.

At that time, the Indian ambassador was woken up around 1 AM, was brought with escort to the President's house and was given pictures and radio communication. Before he came over, the entire plan was quickly devised. Of course, he denied any plans to attacking Pakistan and termed the pictures and the tapes as "fake". While this tense topic was going on, an F-16 flew low and broke the sound barrier not too far from the Presidential palace. To which, Gen. Zia opened up a map and showed him a red line going through Pakistan and India (probably Delhi or something, I don't remember as I used to get details a day after). So anyhow, the Indian Ambassador was told that it would take these jets 45 minutes to get to the target and he needed to broker a peace deal immediately.

The word has it, due to the emergency, he couldn't go back to the Indian embassy and used an empty room in the Presidential Palace with their phones to make calls. After about 30 minutes, he came back and told him Zia that Pakistan had the highest guarantee from India (Indian PM) that there will not be any attacks on the Pakistani soil. And that Pakistan needed to call the jets off as the Indian radar posts were seeing a few jets slipping in and out of their radar as the -16's were using nap of the earth technique and weren't easily identifiable. The F-16's were already instructed to no cross the border, so they came back after making a large CAP type of a circle for many hundred miles.

It was all a trick and it worked. But looking at the current situation, it seems like the 80's are back in India and Pakistani politicians minds.
 
The (BS) Force is strong in this one

whenever-i-see-a-story-that-is-fake-on-reddit-63349.png


@Oscar


My friend, allow me to explain history that I saw directly unfold in front of me (almost). The exercises weren't just exercises. The day the exercises ended, the replenishment were going on and the idea was that the day after the Pakistani team leave's, an attack will commence at 6 PM India time.

The Pakistani military didn't have that information. However, someone took a picture of the operational plan and radio'd it over (through a Pigeon? I don't know). So including the day of the Cricket match, would give the Pakistani two days, which is nowhere enough to deploy troops to face the size of the strike cores that had already been gathered on the borders by India, and the soldiers were all freshly trained.

There was a strong concern inside the Pakistani Army that if India losses the match, some "playful" generals knowing the attack is already scheduled, would try to do that the same night (its very easy to shift blame as to what caused the attack to occur faster as Mr. Gandhi wasn't at the border). That caused more panic on the Pakistani Army's end.

Due to that, Gen. Zia told his people to assemble the flash light no matter how. And he flew to India to see the match. This was JUST to buy time. At the end of the match, he did tell Rajeev about the flash lights, which might be used as Pakistan had no way to counter India at that time. He also told him that the F-16's Pakistan had, were already modified to carry the flash lights to across the border.

Which, when Rajeev spoke to his generals about, they agreed to, as they know Pakistan was working with her nuke stuff extremely fast. Anyway, that ended those plans to attack Pakistan. This threat was immediately conveyed to the US embassy pretty late in the evening and to other foreign diplomats to gain political support.

It is widely believe that due to this open threat, this incident became a setting stone for Sen. Larry Pressler's famous Pressler Amendment, which put sanctions on Pakistan, as everyone perceived them to be modifying the US equipment and building nukes. That was also why the remainder of the F-16's were never delivered; till post 2002 after President Busch lifted the sanctions.

There was one more time when similar threat was used. IA's few strike cores were ready to attack Kashmir on one side and Rajisthan on the other. Pakistan was barely finishing up the Afghan war and was dealing with millions of refugees all of a sudden so the military was spread too thin.

At that time, the Indian ambassador was woken up around 1 AM, was brought with escort to the President's house and was given pictures and radio communication. Before he came over, the entire plan was quickly devised. Of course, he denied any plans to attacking Pakistan and termed the pictures and the tapes as "fake". While this tense topic was going on, an F-16 flew low and broke the sound barrier not too far from the Presidential palace. To which, Gen. Zia opened up a map and showed him a red line going through Pakistan and India (probably Delhi or something, I don't remember as I used to get details a day after). So anyhow, the Indian Ambassador was told that it would take these jets 45 minutes to get to the target and he needed to broker a peace deal immediately.

The word has it, due to the emergency, he couldn't go back to the Indian embassy and used an empty room in the Presidential Palace with their phones to make calls. After about 30 minutes, he came back and told him Zia that Pakistan had the highest guarantee from India (Indian PM) that there will not be any attacks on the Pakistani soil. And that Pakistan needed to call the jets off as the Indian radar posts were seeing a few jets slipping in and out of their radar as the -16's were using nap of the earth technique and weren't easily identifiable. The F-16's were already instructed to no cross the border, so they came back after making a large CAP type of a circle for many hundred miles.

It was all a trick and it worked. But looking at the current situation, it seems like the 80's are back in India and Pakistani politicians minds.
 
Cool Story bro, except that India today pic, the rest of the story was a figment of imagination to make Pakistanis feel good. I was not able to find a certain advisor called BehramNam anywhere.. Could you verify the fact? Or it is just like your previous stories?
Albeit the Indians have the habit of dragging 1971 even in sports threads, however, avoiding a war, some 30 years earlier by whatever means, should make any sane person feel good.
And if you are in some bother about who was Rajiv Gandhi's advisor in 1987, why not get your lawyer to drop a line to ''India Today'' for a libel.....but make sure it goes to the proper address since we have a local Indian take away operating under the same name.
 
Zia is probably the most responsible for turning a forward thinking and modern society into a land of religious nutjobs like Zaid Hameed and Hafiz saeed
The Soviets did gave a parting gift to zia which ensured that he never spoke again
awww damn
Screenshot_1.jpg
 
fir kya karan hai ki pakistani ne apni daleri ko abhi tak nahi dikhaya aur 1999 me atammi salahiyat istemaal kerne ki bajaye nawaz shareef ko 4th of july 1999 ko washington DC bheja :azn: :haha:


sirji aakhir zaid hamid aur hameed gul ka khaali hua mukaam kissi ko to hasil kerna hai :sarcastic:

aur fir becharre ko apna ghar bhi to chalaanaa hai :omghaha:

Jo bhi Kaha usnay 2002, and 2008 drama mein bhi india nay LAKSHMAN REKHA CROSS NAHI KI.

:D
 
Jo bhi Kaha usnay 2002, and 2008 drama mein bhi india nay LAKSHMAN REKHA CROSS NAHI KI.

:D
chinta mat karro bhai jaan hum ub bhi lakshman rekha cross nahi kerne walle kyonki ab hamme maloom hai ki binna kuch karre kis tarah pakistani establishment aur media ko majboor kerna hai .... dekhte jao dekhte jao asli picture to ab shurur hui hai per ye the end nahi hai ... picture to abhi baaki hai :D
 
chinta mat karro bhai jaan hum ub bhi lakshman rekha cross nahi kerne walle kyonki ab hamme maloom hai ki binna kuch karre kis tarah pakistani establishment aur media ko majboor kerna hai .... dekhte jao dekhte jao asli picture to ab shurur hui hai per ye the end nahi hai ... picture to abhi baaki hai :D

Dil pay maat layyaar maar jayeinga.

aunty police bolyay ya nahi party youn hi chalegi :yahoo: :agree::wave:. hum kareingay jo hum chaheingay.
 
Dil pay maat layyaar maar jayeinga.

aunty police bolyay ya nahi party youn hi chalegi :yahoo: :agree::wave:. hum kareingay jo hum chaheingay.
dil pe aapke milk ke log lete hain hamari to policy hi kuch aur hai aap log hi khud ko jaroorat se jyada importence dete ho :sarcastic:
 
GEN. ZIA’S FAMOUS THREAT TO INDIAN PM RAJIV GANDHI IN 1987


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The Representative of India Today included the comments of BehramNam – Special Advisor to Indian PM Rajiv Gandhi, on his article on Gen. Zia-ul-Haq’s visit to India. He writes,

“Pakistan President General Zia-ul-Haq arrived in New Delhi (enroute to Chennai to watch the Pakistan-India Test Match) without any invitation. At that time, Indian PM was not ready to meet Gen. Zia at the Airport. Indian Army were waiting for PM orders for an Attack on Pakistan through the Rajasthan Sector. In such a situation, it was improper to meet the Pakistani President. But Opposition Leaders & Cabinet Members were of the view that despite that the Pakistani Leader arrived without any invitation, it will be against Diplomatic Norms not to meet him & would cause misunderstandings about the Indian leadership on an International Level.

On our persuasion, Rajiv Gandhi went to the Airport the receive the President of Pakistan. Gen. Zia was accorded a lukewarm response from the Indian Prime Minister with an uninterested handshake without making any eye-contact. Rajiv Gandhi said to me, “Gen. Zia has to go to Chennai to watch the Cricket Match, so accompany him & take care of him”. I thought that Bhagwan how strong is this man, that inspite of an insulting behaviour from Rajiv Gandhi, Gen. Zia kept smiling.

Before his departure, Gen. Zia turned to Rajiv Gandhi and said, ‘Mr. Rajiv, you want to attack Pakistan, go ahead and do it. But keep in mind that after this the World would forget Hulagu Khan & Gengis Khan & will only remember Zia-ul-Haq & Rajiv Gandhi. Because this will not be a Conventional War but a Nuclear War. In this situation, Pakistan might be completely destroyed, but Muslims will still be there in the World, but however with the destruction of India, Hinduism will vanish from the face of this earth’.

Cold-drops of perspiration were visible on Rajiv Gandhi’s forehead. I felt sensation in my backbone. These were only few minutes, but Gen. Zia seemed to us a very dangerous man. With a stern-face, Gen. Zia’s eyes showed that he meant business. I was astonished, that after this stern warning, in a flash, Gen. Zia started smiling as if nothing happened & warmly shook hands with other hosts. Except Rajiv Gandhi & myself, that this Gen. Zia had created problems for the Indian PM by threatening him of Nuclear War.”

No matter how bad people say about Gen. Zia, but this is a fact that Gen. Zia was a Pro-Pakistan, True & Honest Leader, one of the finest Pakistan has ever had. Such events & circumstances define a Leader. Be it Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto or Nawaz Sharif, the former initiating the Nuclear Program & the latter conducting the Nuclear Blasts.

A 'fantastic' 'story'.

It is widely believe that due to this open threat, this incident became a setting stone for Sen. Larry Pressler's famous Pressler Amendment, which put sanctions on Pakistan, as everyone perceived them to be modifying the US equipment and building nukes. That was also why the remainder of the F-16's were never delivered; till post 2002 after President Busch lifted the sanctions.

You mean, Pakistan screwed itself up just over a perceived threat of an imminent Indian attack? That's bad.

Gen. Zia opened up a map and showed him a red line going through Pakistan and India (probably Delhi or something, I don't remember as I used to get details a day after). So anyhow, the Indian Ambassador was told that it would take these jets 45 minutes to get to the target and he needed to broker a peace deal immediately.

So, we had no idea about how much time F-16s take to cover a certain distance before Gen Zia told us, and we were not prepared for that while going to a war? More fantastic stories.
 
/Are you expecting me to respond?

not necessarily .... but if you find it necessary to deny the repeated statement of the 'Commander of Western Command' of Indian Army of that time .... then you can respond ... your choice ....
 
A 'fantastic' 'story'.

You mean, Pakistan screwed itself up just over a perceived threat of an imminent Indian attack? That's bad. [/QUOTE]

Of course you'd read like that. Pakistan pushed you away and stopped you from attacking.......that was in their national interest. Whether it screwed them up or not, that all later. The fact is, the deployments took place from all across India, you spent many millions of dollars a DAY to keep those forces there to attack a country and they pushed you away over a small conversation. Shows one party has balls and the other party has never grown any!!!! This is how I respond to silly posters. I am sure you are feeling it.


So, we had no idea about how much time F-16s take to cover a certain distance before Gen Zia told us, and we were not prepared for that while going to a war? More fantastic stories.

An F-16, flying over hilly terrain at a few hundred feet, and about 3 decades ago, not many radars could detect it (the PAF is extremely well trained on flying at few meters above the surface, thanks to their American training).

And you were not prepared, even when you WERE prepared, you backed down MANY times. Its story of your life. Like right now, take a look at the jingoism your Modi is spreading, he's going around and gossiping about Pakistan to everyone who wants to listen.

In return, you get a romantic Modi picture / selfies from him :rofl: . This is a foreign policy nightmare. Read up Hindustan times, they are writing every day advising Modi not to do crap like this and canceling talks.

He can't attack Pakistan, the damage assessments are coming out clear. The NY times and others have their defense analysts openly say (even with Indian lobby's influence), that any "surgical strikes or attacks" might result in Organ-damage, meaning the attackers will not come back or will suffer huge losses. And in any conflict, India will take a MUCH bigger loss than Pakistan.

The US,looking out for her investments, has already put a boot up someone's rear to stop trying to be aggressive, the Chinese have done the same. And the genius has forced Pakistan to cancel talks and he doesn't want to talk.

If anything happens and he goes to the UN, the world will say "you cancelled talks and you were unwilling to continue any dialogue, why are you now bit*ching about it".
 

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