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[1973-2015] How Vietnamese and American passed over the past ( Vietnam War)?

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As explanation to someone thinking that Vietnam suddenly come for American support, unconditionally, I start the thread to mark some milestone and explanation for a slow trip to normalization between Vietnam and USA.

Pls join my thread with less hatred and more constructive attitude. Thanks in advance.

Index:
1. Operation End Sweep 1973: peace after a massive bombing raid. Post #3
2. Homecoming operation 1973 for POWs
3. Nixon Letter : 1 Feb 1973

---- to be continued.
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Year 2015 also marks 4o years of the end of Vietnam War (1975) , 20 years of new relation with USA ( 1995 ).
But the serious normalization seem to be just started.

Very slow healing procedure has been processing and it hasn't done.
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Vietnam, 2 Mar 2015, Rose Gottemoeller, Under Secretary of State for Arms Control and International Security for the US State Department, spoke highly of the ongoing model on overcoming bomb and mine consequences in Quang Tri, saying that it can be applied in UXO-contaminated areas across the world.

In 2015, the US Government will provide 8 million USD for Quang Tri to establish an UXO tracking database centre in order to help detect and early deal with areas heavily contaminated by UXOs, she said.

During her trip to the province, Gottemoeller visited the Quang Tri bomb and mine action centre, the scene of the bomb and mine clearance projects by the Mines Advisory Group (MAG) and the Norwegian People’s Aid (NPA) in Trang Soi hamlet, Trieu Ai commune, Trieu Phong district

Over the past 20 years, surveying and clearing UXOs in the province has achieved considerable achievements, helping reduce the number of bomb-and-mine-related accidents to 127 during the period of 2008-2014 from 456 cases in the 2001-2007 period.

By the end 2014, 8,399 hectares of UXO-contaminated land in Quang Tri has been freed from 556,448 explosive materials.-VNA
 
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As explanation to someone thinking that Vietnam suddenly come for American support, unconditionally, I start the thread to mark some milestone and explanation for a slow trip to normalization between Vietnam and USA.

Pls join my thread with less hatred and more constructive attitude. Thanks in advance.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Year 2015 also marks 4o years of the end of Vietnam War (1975) , 20 years of new relation with USA ( 1995 ).
But the serious normalization seem to be just started.

Very slow healing procedure has been processing and it hasn't had done.

---- to be continued.

Thanks for starting this, I look forwards to a long and productive relationship between the US and Vietnam. I'll start with this:

We screwed up bad. Really bad during the Vietnam War! But for all our mistakes, we are trying to make amends. Slowly, but surely, we are making amends for our mistakes.

The first step towards a strong relationship, and healing, is to acknowledge what has been done and seek to change it.

We are doing just that.

DA NANG, Vietnam — In the tropical climate of central Vietnam, weeds and shrubs seem to grow everywhere — except here.

Forty years after the United States stopped spraying herbicides in the jungles of Southeast Asia in the hopes of denying cover to Vietcong fighters and North Vietnamese troops, an air base here is one of about two dozen former American sites that remain polluted with an especially toxic strain of dioxin, the chemical contaminant in Agent Orange that has been linked to cancers, birth defects and other diseases.

On Thursday, after years of rebuffing Vietnamese requests for assistance in a cleanup, the United States inaugurated its first major effort to address the environmental effects of the long war.

This morning we celebrate a milestone in our bilateral relationship,” David B. Shear, the American ambassador to Vietnam, said at a ceremony attended by senior officers of the Vietnamese military. “We’re cleaning up this mess.”

The program, which is expected to cost $43 million and take four years, was officially welcomed with smiles and handshakes at the ceremony. But bitterness remains here. Agent Orange is mentioned often in the news media, and victims are commemorated annually on Aug. 10, the day in 1961 when American forces first tested spraying it in Vietnam. The government objected to Olympics sponsorship this year by Dow Chemical, a leading producer of Agent Orange during the war. Many here have not hesitated to call the American program too little — it addresses only the one site — and very late.

“It’s a big step,” said Ngo Quang Xuan, a former Vietnamese ambassador to the United Nations. “But in the eyes of those who suffered the consequences, it’s not enough.”

Over a decade of war, the United States sprayed about 20 million gallons of Agent Orange and other herbicides in Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos, halting only after scientists commissioned by the Agriculture Department issued a report expressing concerns that dioxin showed “a significant potential to increase birth defects.” By the time the spraying stopped, Agent Orange and other herbicides had destroyed 2 million hectares, or 5.5 million acres, of forest and cropland, an area roughly the size of New Jersey.

Nguyen Van Rinh, a retired lieutenant general who is now the chairman of the Vietnam Association for Victims of Agent Orange/Dioxin, has vivid memories of hearing American aircraft above the jungles of southern Vietnam and seeing Agent Orange raining down in sheets on him and his troops. Plants and animals exposed to the defoliant were dead within days. Many of his troops later suffered illnesses that he suspects were linked to the repeated exposure to Agent Orange, used in concentrations 20 to 55 times that of normal agricultural use.

“I would like to have one message sent to the American people,” Mr. Rinh said in his office, where a large bust of Ho Chi Minh, the wartime leader and icon, stared down from a shelf behind his desk. “The plight of Agent Orange victims continues. I think the relationship would rise up to new heights if the American government took responsibility and helped their victims and address the consequences.”

Those who have worked on the issue say the American government has been slow to address the issue in part because of concerns about liability. It took years for American soldiers who sprayed the chemicals to secure settlements from the chemical companies that produced them. The United States government, which also lagged in acknowledging the problem, has spent billions of dollars on disability payments and health care for American soldiers who came into contact with Agent Orange.

Mr. Shear, the American ambassador, sidestepped a reporter’s question after the ceremony about whether the United States would take responsibility for the environmental and health effects of Agent Orange.

“There is a disconnect between what America has done for its soldiers and what America has done for Vietnam,” said Charles Bailey, the director of the Agent Orange in Vietnam Program, an effort by the Aspen Institute, a nongovernmental organization based in Washington, to reach common ground between the United States and Vietnam on the issue. “I’m sometimes glad I’m not a U.S. diplomat in trying to square that circle.”

A class-action case against chemical companies filed in the United States on behalf of millions of Vietnamese was dismissed in 2005 on the grounds that supplying the defoliant did not amount to a war crime and that the Vietnamese plaintiffs had not established a clear causal effect between exposure to Agent Orange and their health problems. The United States government is rolling out a modest $11.4 million program to help people with disabilities in Vietnam, but it is not explicitly linked to Agent Orange. The oft-repeated American formulation is “assistance regardless of cause.”

When environmental factors are linked to disease, proof positive is sometimes hard to determine. American military studies have outlined connections between Agent Orange and myriad ailments, while Dow Chemical maintains that the “very substantial body of human evidence on Agent Orange establishes that veterans’ illnesses are not caused by Agent Orange.”

In Vietnam, there are many cases in which links to Agent Orange appear striking.

Nguyen Van Dung, 42, moved to Da Nang in 1996 with his wife and newborn daughter and worked at the former American base, wading through the knee-deep mud of drainage ditches and dredging them with a shovel. During the first 10 years, he, like other employees, harvested fish and eels from the large ponds and canals on the air base grounds, taking them home almost daily. Studies later showed high concentrations of dioxin in the fat tissue and organs of the fish.

The couple’s first daughter is now at the top of her class, but their second child, also a girl, was born in 2000 with a rare blood disease. She died at 7.

Their son Tu was born in 2008, and he was quickly found to have the same blood condition. With regular transfusions, he has defied his doctor’s prediction that he would not live past 3, but he is nearly blind, with bulging eyes that roll wildly, and he speaks in high-pitched tones that only his parents can understand. His chest cavity is so weak that he cannot breathe if he lies on his stomach.

What caused the birth defects, and who is to blame? Detailed medical tests are out of the question for Tu’s parents, whose combined monthly income is the equivalent of $350, much of which goes to medical care.

But Luu Thi Thu, the boy’s mother, does not hesitate to assign blame.

“If there hadn’t been a war and Americans hadn’t sprayed dioxin and chemicals into this area, we wouldn’t be suffering these consequences,” she said.

“What happened to my son is already done, and nothing can change that,” she said. “The American and Vietnamese governments need to clean up the Da Nang airport so that the next generation will not be affected.”

Le Ke Son, a doctor and the most senior Vietnamese official responsible for the government’s programs related to Agent Orange and other chemicals used during the war, said the debates should take a back seat to aid. “We spend a lot of time arguing about the reason why people are disabled,” he said. “One way or another they are victims and suffered from the legacy of the war.

From http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/10/w...ation-in-vietnam.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0#h[]

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The Vietnam War was a mistake clouded by a fear of an ideology that is all but dead. We've moved past our fear, past of irrationality towards Vietnam and we push forwards into the future looking for peace and prosperity with the Vietnamese people.

US Investments in Vietnam

U.S.-invested projects cover 33 out of 64 provinces and cities across Vietnam. However, both the project number and capital are concentrated in nine localities of Ba Ria-Vung Tau, Ho Chi Minh City, Dong Nai, Binh Duong, Hanoi, Danang, Hai Duong, Binh Dinh and offshore oil wells.

U.S. investment should be considered from a wider view. Many corporations from the U.S. stepped into Vietnam via their affiliates, which were positioned in other nations and territories, such as Coca Cola, Procter & Gamble, Unocal, Conoco and Intel.

Phan Huu Thang, head of the Foreign Investment Agency under the Ministry of Planning and Investment, revealed that such investment had involved 74 projects with $2.4 billion of registered capital. The projects were mainly large-scale and mostly operating effectively, Thang said.


In general, U.S. investment in Vietnam, including both direct and “related” money, has been poured in 400 projects totaling US$ 4.7 billion, making the US the sixth largest investor in Vietnam. In fact, that the Vietnam-US Bilateral Trade Agreement (BTA) has been implemented for five years alongside with Vietnam’s WTO membership and the US awarding PNTR status to Vietnam has benefited not only Vietnamese enterprises but also FDI firms including US companies in the country.

AmCham Vietnam | U.S. investment in Vietnam

Even 10 years ago, who would have thought to see US businesses in such numbers and US investment in such quantities in Vietnam? Time heals all wounds, no matter how deep.

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Here's to a prosperous and peaceful future my Vietnamese friends :cheers:!
 
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1. 1973 - Operation End Sweep Peace starts after a massive bombing raid - Christmas or Eleven Days Bombing Raid - December 1972

Paris Peace Accord
agreed in January 1973

After a bombing operation then immediately it's time for a peaceful operation: Operation End Sweep. As you know, American did dominate the Vietnam East Sea and able to make the blockage of Haiphong harbor of North Vietnam during most of war time.

Operation End Sweep was a United States Navy and United States Marine Corps operation to remove naval mines fromHaiphong harbor and other coastal and inland waterways in North Vietnam between February and July 1973. The operation fulfilled an American obligation under the Paris Peace Accord of January 1973, which ended direct American participation in the Vietnam War. It also was the first operational deployment of a U.S. Navy air mine countermeasures capability
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Note: to Vietnam: Feb - Jul 1973 is the final, the third stage of the operation, the first stage - preparation started in Nov 1972 in Subic base. Peace planned even during War

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A naval mine explodes in Haiphong Harbor on 9 March 1973 during Operation End Sweep, photographed by the automatic mine locator camera aboard an American CH-53A Sea Stallion helicopter. It is believed to be the only explosion of a mine during End Sweep. The Mark 105 hydrofoil minesweeping sled the helicopter is towing is at right.

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The special device minesweeper USS Washtenaw County (MSS-2) making her final check sweep in Haiphong Harbor on 20 June 1973. A single-mastedjunk under sail is at right.

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American lost 3 helicopters during the operation.
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Ships of Task Force 78 in the Gulf of Tonkin, heading for North Vietnam to conduct Operation End Sweep.

Task Force 78 included 25 ships with 2 helicopter carriers, 3 ships with heli pad, 7 minesweeper ships, .... 48 x CH53D
 
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2: Operation Homecoming for Vietnam POWs - Feb 1973

Nothing can produce emotion, passion and controversy like war. How could anyone ever forget the scene of a returning POW from Vietnam kissing the ground as he first set foot on U.S. soil after years of captivity, and the thrill of watching…his wife and children run across the tarmac and into his open arms? When a soldier comes home, it is a joyous reunion.
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US prisoners of war Lieutenant Colonel Robert L Stirm is met by his family at a military base in California on his return from years of captivity in Ha Noi.


Operation Homecoming for Vietnam POWs Marks 40 Years
By Donna Miles
American Forces Press Service

WASHINGTON, Feb. 12, 2013 – Forty years ago today, a C-141A Starlifter transport jet with a distinctive red cross on its tail lifted off from Hanoi, North Vietnam, and the first flight of 40 U.S. prisoners of war began their journey home through Operation Homecoming.

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Newly freed prisoners of war celebrate as their C-141A aircraft lifts off from Hanoi, North Vietnam, on Feb. 12, 1973, during Operation Homecoming. The mission included 54 C-141 flights between Feb. 12 and April 4, 1973, returning 591 POWs to American soil. U.S. Air Force photo


By the day’s end, three C-141A aircraft would lift off from Hanoi, as well as a C-9A aircraft from Saigon, South Vietnam. In a steady flow of flights through late March 1973 under terms set through the Paris Peace Accords, 591 POWs returned to American soil.

Americans were spellbound as they watched news clips of the POWs being carried in stretchers or walking tentatively toward U.S. officers at the awaiting aircraft for the first flight from Hanoi’s Gia Lam Airport.

The POWs ranged from privates first class to colonels, all wearing new gray uniforms issued by the North Vietnamese just before their release.

Air Force Tech. Sgt. James R. Cook, who suffered severe wounds when he bailed out of his stricken aircraft over North Vietnam in December 1972, saluted the U.S. colors from his stretcher as he was carried aboard the aircraft. Also on the first flight was Navy Cmdr. Everett Alvarez Jr., the first American pilot to be shot down in North Vietnam and, by the war’s end, the longest-held POW there. He spent eight-and-a-half years in captivity.

Celebration broke out aboard the first aircraft -- nicknamed the “Hanoi Taxi” -- as it lifted skyward and the POWs experienced their first taste of freedom.

Historian Andrew H. Lipps captured the magnitude of the moment in his account, “Operation Homecoming: The Return of American POWs from Vietnam.”

“Imagine you’re imprisoned in a cage; imagine the cage surrounded by the smell of feces; imagine the rotted food you eat is so infested with insects that to eat only a few is a blessing; imagine knowing your life could be taken by one of your captors on a whim at any moment; imagine you are subjected to mental and physical torture designed to break not bones but instead spirit on a daily basis. That was being a prisoner of North Vietnam,” Lipps wrote.

“Then imagine one day, after seemingly endless disappointment, you are given a change of clothes and lined up to watch an American plane land to return you home. That was Operation Homecoming.”

Aeromedical teams assigned to each aircraft tended to the former POWs during the two-and-a-half hour flight to Clark Air Base in the Philippines, the first stop on their trip home. Meanwhile, many of the POWs joked and smoked American cigarettes as they caught up on all they’d missed while in captivity: fashion trends and the women’s liberation movement, among them.

“Everything seemed like heaven,” recalled Air Force Capt. Larry Chesley, who, after being shot down over North Vietnam, spent seven years in the notorious “Hanoi Hilton” and other POW prisons. “When the doors of that C-141 closed, there were tears in the eyes of every man aboard,” he said.

Air Force Maj. Gen. Ed Mechenbier, the last Vietnam POW to serve in the Air Force, recalled the emotion of his own journey out of North Vietnam on Feb. 18, 1973. "When we got airborne and the frailty of being a POW turned into the reality of freedom, we yelled, cried and cheered,” he said.

The POWs arrived to a hero’s welcome at Clark Air Base, where Navy Adm. Noel Gayler, commander of U.S. Forces Pacific, led their greeting party. Joining him were Air Force Lt. Gen. William G. Moore Jr., who commanded 13th Air Force and the homecoming operation at Clark, and Roger Shields, deputy assistant secretary of defense for POW/MIA affairs.

Speaking to the crowd that lined the tarmac to welcome the aircraft, returning POW Navy Capt. Jeremiah Denton -- who would go on to earn the rank of rear admiral and later was elected to the U.S. Senate, representing Alabama -- elicited cheers as he thanked all who had worked for their release and proclaimed, “God bless America.”

Air Force Lt. Col. Carlyle “Smitty” Harris, who spent almost eight years as a POW after being shot down over North Vietnam, joined the many other POWs who echoed that sentiment. “My only message is, ‘God bless America,’” he said, dismissing assertions in the media that the POWs had been directed to say it.

“With six, seven or eight years to think about the really important things in life, a belief in God and country was strengthened in every POW with whom I had contact,” he said. “Firsthand exposure to a system which made a mockery of religion and where men are unable to know truth made us all appreciate some of the most basic values in ‘God bless America.’”

Air Force Col. Robinson Risner, the senior Air Force officer at the infamous "Hanoi Hilton" honored today by a statue in his likeness at the U.S. Air Force Academy, choked back emotion as he arrived on the second C-141 flight from Hanoi.

“Thank you all for bringing us home to freedom again,” he told the crowd.

After receiving medical exams and feasting on steak, ice cream and other American food, the former POWs received new uniforms for their follow-on flights home. Their aircraft made stops in Hawaii and California. The first group of 20 former POWs arrived at Travis Air Force Base, Calif., on Feb. 14, 1973.

News clips of the arrival reveal the deep emotion of the freed POWs as they arrived on the U.S. mainland. Navy Capt. James Stockdale, who went on to become a vice admiral and vice presidential candidate, was the first man to limp off the aircraft.

Stockdale paused to thank his countrymen for the loyalty they had showed him and his fellow POWs. “The men who follow me down that ramp know what loyalty means because they have been living with loyalty, living on loyalty, the past several years -- loyalty to each other, loyalty to the military, loyalty to our commander-in-chief,” he said.

Of the 591 POWs liberated during Operation Homecoming, 325 served in the Air Force, 138 in the Navy; 77 in the Army and 26 in the Marine Corps. Twenty-five of the POWs were civilian employees of U.S. government agencies.

In addition, 69 POWs the Viet Cong had held in South Vietnam left aboard flights from Loc Ninh. Nine other POWs were released from Laos, and three from China.

Forty years after their release, two of the former POWs serve in Congress: Sen. John McCain of Arizona and Rep. Sam Johnson of Texas.

A dinner and ceremony being planned for late May at the Richard Nixon Presidential Library in California will honor the POWs, recreating the dinner the president hosted for them at the White House in 1973.

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POWs : who lately help normalizing the relation between former foes

First US Ambassador in Vietnam: Pete Peterson [1997-2011]
US Senator: John McCain

On 10 September 1966 US Pilot Douglas "Pete" Peterson flew his last mission over Northern Viet Nam. His plane went down in flames over the Red River Delta. After his capture he was taken to the Hoa Lo Prison in central Ha Noi, sarcastically dubbed the "Hanoi Hilton" among the US Prisoners of War, who were kept there until March 1973, after the peace agreement finally had been signed.

A year after Peterson's capture he was joined by another pilot John McCain, who was shot down on 26 October 1967 after a bombing run in his A-4 Sky Hawk fighter bomber. John McCain parachuted down in Truc Bac Lake, in the suburbs of Ha Noi, less than 500 meters from Ho Chi Minh's residence.


Peterson as well as McCain returned to Ha Noi 25 years after their release from the Hanoi Hilton. Peterson came back as the first US Ambassador to Ha Noi in 1997, appointed by President Clinton. McCain came to Viet Nam as a US Senator. McCain used the opportunity to meet with the old coppersmith, that had fished him out of the Truc Bach Lake.

Peterson became a very popular figure in Ha Noi for his easy going and amiable manner, and it did not hurt his image at all, when he married a beautiful and sharp Vietnamese lady, who had returned from overseas to work at the Australian embassy


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The two US Pilots Peter Peterson (left) and John McCain spent six years at "Hanoi Hilton", as the old French security prison was dubbed by the American Prisoners of War. These photos were taken during their captivity and are now on display in the prison museum.
 
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3. The Nixon letter

TEXT OF MESSAGE FROM THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES TO THE PRIME MINISTER OF THE DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC OF VIETNAM.


February 1, 1973

The President wishes to inform the Democratic Republic of Vietnam of the principles which will govern United States participation in the postwar reconstruction of North Vietnam. As indicated in Article 21 of The Agreement on Ending the War and Restoring Peace in Vietnam signed in Paris on January 27, 1973, the United States undertakes this participation in accordance with its traditional policies. These principles are as follows:

1) The Government of the United States of America will contribute to postwar reconstruction in North Vietnam without any political conditions.

2) Preliminary United States studies indicate that the appropriate programs for the United States contribution to postwar reconstruction will fall in the range of $3.25 billion of grant aid over five years. Other forms of aid will be agreed upon between the two parties. This estimate is subject to revision and to detailed discussion between the Government of the United States and the Government of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam.

3) The United States will propose to the Democratic Republic of Vietnam the establishment of a United States-North Vietnamese Joint Economic Commission within 30 days from the date of this message.

4) The function of this Commission will be to develop programs for the United States contribution to reconstruction of North Vietnam. This United States contribution will be based upon such factors as:

(a) The needs of North Vietnam arising from the dislocation of war;

(b) The requirements for postwar reconstruction in the agricultural and industrial sectors of North Vietnam's economy.

5) The Joint Economic Commission will have an equal number of representatives from each side. It will agree upon a mechanism to administer the program which will constitute the United States contribution to the reconstruction of North Vietnam. The Commission will attempt to complete this agreement within 60 days after its establishment.

6) The two members of the Commission will function on the principle of respect for each other's sovereignty, non-interference in each other's internal affairs, equality and mutual benefit. The officers of the Commission will be located at a place to be agreed upon by the United States and the Democratic Republic of Vietnam.

7) The United States considers that the implementation of the foregoing principles will promote economic, trade and other relations between the United States of America and the Democratic Republic of Vietnam and will contribute to insuring a stable and lasting peace in Indochina. These principles accord with the spirit of Chapter VIII of The Agreement on Ending the War and Restoring Peace in Vietnam which was signed in Paris on January 27, 1973.

UNDERSTANDING REGARDING ECONOMIC RECONSTRUCTION PROGRAM

It is understood that the recommendations of the Joint Economic Commission mentioned in the President's note to the Prime Minister will be implemented by each member in accordance with its own constitutional provisions.

NOTE REGARDING OTHER FORMS OF AID

In regard to other forms of aid, United States studies indicate that the appropriate programs could fall in the range of 1 to 1.5 billion dollars depending on food and other commodity needs of the Democratic Republic of Vietnam.

End of the full text of the 1977 Department of State release containing the "Nixon Letter."
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GDP of South Korea in 1972 : 11.37 billion USD
 
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Thanks for sharing. I'm all for a very prosperous relationship between our two countries. Yes, there is a lot of bad history, but there can be an even better future! :cheers:
 
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4. Vietnam application for U. N. membership: 1977

In March 1977, President Carter sent a commission to Vietnam. The United States no longer vetoed Vietnam's application for U.N. membership, paving the way for the July 20, 1977 U.N. Security Council recommendation - undertaken by consensus, without formal vote - that Vietnam be admitted to the United Nation.
 
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5. Last official battle of Vietnam War ( USA vs Khmer Rouge ) : Mayaguez incident:

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Last names on the Veterans Memorial Wall
Cleveland helicopter pilot Richard Van De Geer, killed in 1975 Mayaguez incident, buried at Arlington
 
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There is no permanent foe in international politics for instance US Japan since the end of ww2.....i see a strong US Japan and Vietnam alliance in coming years.


Small question: Did US forgot some of its nukes Vietnam during Vietnam war...or its just a rumour?
 
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I think you need to thank China for that. :)
if that is what you have in mind, then I want to piss on it. death and sorrow are the last thing we want. you obviously not.

ingrates don't know what that means
do you constantly want to talk of bullshit again?

Thanks for starting this, I look forwards to a long and productive relationship between the US and Vietnam. I'll start with this:

We screwed up bad. Really bad during the Vietnam War! But for all our mistakes, we are trying to make amends. Slowly, but surely, we are making amends for our mistakes.

The first step towards a strong relationship, and healing, is to acknowledge what has been done and seek to change it.

We are doing just that.

DA NANG, Vietnam — In the tropical climate of central Vietnam, weeds and shrubs seem to grow everywhere — except here.

Forty years after the United States stopped spraying herbicides in the jungles of Southeast Asia in the hopes of denying cover to Vietcong fighters and North Vietnamese troops, an air base here is one of about two dozen former American sites that remain polluted with an especially toxic strain of dioxin, the chemical contaminant in Agent Orange that has been linked to cancers, birth defects and other diseases.

On Thursday, after years of rebuffing Vietnamese requests for assistance in a cleanup, the United States inaugurated its first major effort to address the environmental effects of the long war.

This morning we celebrate a milestone in our bilateral relationship,” David B. Shear, the American ambassador to Vietnam, said at a ceremony attended by senior officers of the Vietnamese military. “We’re cleaning up this mess.”

The program, which is expected to cost $43 million and take four years, was officially welcomed with smiles and handshakes at the ceremony. But bitterness remains here. Agent Orange is mentioned often in the news media, and victims are commemorated annually on Aug. 10, the day in 1961 when American forces first tested spraying it in Vietnam. The government objected to Olympics sponsorship this year by Dow Chemical, a leading producer of Agent Orange during the war. Many here have not hesitated to call the American program too little — it addresses only the one site — and very late.

“It’s a big step,” said Ngo Quang Xuan, a former Vietnamese ambassador to the United Nations. “But in the eyes of those who suffered the consequences, it’s not enough.”

Over a decade of war, the United States sprayed about 20 million gallons of Agent Orange and other herbicides in Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos, halting only after scientists commissioned by the Agriculture Department issued a report expressing concerns that dioxin showed “a significant potential to increase birth defects.” By the time the spraying stopped, Agent Orange and other herbicides had destroyed 2 million hectares, or 5.5 million acres, of forest and cropland, an area roughly the size of New Jersey.

Nguyen Van Rinh, a retired lieutenant general who is now the chairman of the Vietnam Association for Victims of Agent Orange/Dioxin, has vivid memories of hearing American aircraft above the jungles of southern Vietnam and seeing Agent Orange raining down in sheets on him and his troops. Plants and animals exposed to the defoliant were dead within days. Many of his troops later suffered illnesses that he suspects were linked to the repeated exposure to Agent Orange, used in concentrations 20 to 55 times that of normal agricultural use.

“I would like to have one message sent to the American people,” Mr. Rinh said in his office, where a large bust of Ho Chi Minh, the wartime leader and icon, stared down from a shelf behind his desk. “The plight of Agent Orange victims continues. I think the relationship would rise up to new heights if the American government took responsibility and helped their victims and address the consequences.”

Those who have worked on the issue say the American government has been slow to address the issue in part because of concerns about liability. It took years for American soldiers who sprayed the chemicals to secure settlements from the chemical companies that produced them. The United States government, which also lagged in acknowledging the problem, has spent billions of dollars on disability payments and health care for American soldiers who came into contact with Agent Orange.

Mr. Shear, the American ambassador, sidestepped a reporter’s question after the ceremony about whether the United States would take responsibility for the environmental and health effects of Agent Orange.

“There is a disconnect between what America has done for its soldiers and what America has done for Vietnam,” said Charles Bailey, the director of the Agent Orange in Vietnam Program, an effort by the Aspen Institute, a nongovernmental organization based in Washington, to reach common ground between the United States and Vietnam on the issue. “I’m sometimes glad I’m not a U.S. diplomat in trying to square that circle.”

A class-action case against chemical companies filed in the United States on behalf of millions of Vietnamese was dismissed in 2005 on the grounds that supplying the defoliant did not amount to a war crime and that the Vietnamese plaintiffs had not established a clear causal effect between exposure to Agent Orange and their health problems. The United States government is rolling out a modest $11.4 million program to help people with disabilities in Vietnam, but it is not explicitly linked to Agent Orange. The oft-repeated American formulation is “assistance regardless of cause.”

When environmental factors are linked to disease, proof positive is sometimes hard to determine. American military studies have outlined connections between Agent Orange and myriad ailments, while Dow Chemical maintains that the “very substantial body of human evidence on Agent Orange establishes that veterans’ illnesses are not caused by Agent Orange.”

In Vietnam, there are many cases in which links to Agent Orange appear striking.

Nguyen Van Dung, 42, moved to Da Nang in 1996 with his wife and newborn daughter and worked at the former American base, wading through the knee-deep mud of drainage ditches and dredging them with a shovel. During the first 10 years, he, like other employees, harvested fish and eels from the large ponds and canals on the air base grounds, taking them home almost daily. Studies later showed high concentrations of dioxin in the fat tissue and organs of the fish.

The couple’s first daughter is now at the top of her class, but their second child, also a girl, was born in 2000 with a rare blood disease. She died at 7.

Their son Tu was born in 2008, and he was quickly found to have the same blood condition. With regular transfusions, he has defied his doctor’s prediction that he would not live past 3, but he is nearly blind, with bulging eyes that roll wildly, and he speaks in high-pitched tones that only his parents can understand. His chest cavity is so weak that he cannot breathe if he lies on his stomach.

What caused the birth defects, and who is to blame? Detailed medical tests are out of the question for Tu’s parents, whose combined monthly income is the equivalent of $350, much of which goes to medical care.

But Luu Thi Thu, the boy’s mother, does not hesitate to assign blame.

“If there hadn’t been a war and Americans hadn’t sprayed dioxin and chemicals into this area, we wouldn’t be suffering these consequences,” she said.

“What happened to my son is already done, and nothing can change that,” she said. “The American and Vietnamese governments need to clean up the Da Nang airport so that the next generation will not be affected.”

Le Ke Son, a doctor and the most senior Vietnamese official responsible for the government’s programs related to Agent Orange and other chemicals used during the war, said the debates should take a back seat to aid. “We spend a lot of time arguing about the reason why people are disabled,” he said. “One way or another they are victims and suffered from the legacy of the war.

From http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/10/w...ation-in-vietnam.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0#h[]

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The Vietnam War was a mistake clouded by a fear of an ideology that is all but dead. We've moved past our fear, past of irrationality towards Vietnam and we push forwards into the future looking for peace and prosperity with the Vietnamese people.

US Investments in Vietnam

U.S.-invested projects cover 33 out of 64 provinces and cities across Vietnam. However, both the project number and capital are concentrated in nine localities of Ba Ria-Vung Tau, Ho Chi Minh City, Dong Nai, Binh Duong, Hanoi, Danang, Hai Duong, Binh Dinh and offshore oil wells.

U.S. investment should be considered from a wider view. Many corporations from the U.S. stepped into Vietnam via their affiliates, which were positioned in other nations and territories, such as Coca Cola, Procter & Gamble, Unocal, Conoco and Intel.

Phan Huu Thang, head of the Foreign Investment Agency under the Ministry of Planning and Investment, revealed that such investment had involved 74 projects with $2.4 billion of registered capital. The projects were mainly large-scale and mostly operating effectively, Thang said.


In general, U.S. investment in Vietnam, including both direct and “related” money, has been poured in 400 projects totaling US$ 4.7 billion, making the US the sixth largest investor in Vietnam. In fact, that the Vietnam-US Bilateral Trade Agreement (BTA) has been implemented for five years alongside with Vietnam’s WTO membership and the US awarding PNTR status to Vietnam has benefited not only Vietnamese enterprises but also FDI firms including US companies in the country.

AmCham Vietnam | U.S. investment in Vietnam

Even 10 years ago, who would have thought to see US businesses in such numbers and US investment in such quantities in Vietnam? Time heals all wounds, no matter how deep.

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Here's to a prosperous and peaceful future my Vietnamese friends :cheers:!
it is good that both sides get over it and concentrate on the future.
nobody in vietnam wants to talk about the war.

There is no permanent foe in international politics for instance US Japan since the end of ww2.....i see a strong US Japan and Vietnam alliance in coming years.
that is true. we will see how things develop.
Small question: Did US forgot some of its nukes Vietnam during Vietnam war...or its just a rumour?
yes, there is rumour and remains rumour.
 
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if that is what you have in mind, then I want to piss on it. death and sorrow are the last thing we want. you obviously not.
Sorry, my fault. Of cause you stay together because of pure love. And of cause American love a comunist country. Not a fun of death and sorrow, just tell the truth, you like or not.
 
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Hey pals, let read my first post again.
"LESS HATRED AND MORE CONSTRUCTIVE" and on topic. @Sommer
If you really understand what others must suffer in post-war era.
Thanks !!!
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American and Vietnamese are not easy to just step out of the war, because both countries love their men and women. They are still searching for their missing men and women at this moment.

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Previous posts are for returning POW and something about removal naval mines, bombs, ordnances ... in Vietnam with US supports.
Next post would be about MIA issue. Search for missing in action men and women by both sides.

I have to say, Vietnam has been searching for remains of both side few decades ( since 1973) before officially establish the relationship with US ( in 1995 ). The delivery started since 1988.

This cooperation in POW/MIA program bring them together, they have chance to exchange more information, understand more about each other, the statistic, the feeling.

For example, American could remove their aircrafts lost in combat, in case the aircrafts not down inland but to the sea. But in MIA action, they must list all with coordinates for searching purpose.

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POW/MIA Effort Continues Three Decades After Vietnam War
By Donna Miles
American Forces Press Service

WASHINGTON, April 29, 2005 – The United States and Vietnam are helping heal wounds left by the war that ended 30 years ago by working together to determine the fate of missing servicemembers in Vietnam, including 1,800 from the United States.

"As we mark the 30th anniversary of the end of the war, we must not forget those on both sides who made the ultimate sacrifice during the terrible conflict," said U.S. Ambassador to Vietnam Michael Marine.

"The best way to do this is to remain steadfast in our efforts to achieve the fullest possible accounting of our missing personnel from the Indochina conflict," Marine told participants at the March 17 Texas Tech 5th Triennial Vietnam Symposium in Lubbock, Texas.

Navy Adm. William J. Fallon, commander of U.S. Pacific Command, called POW/MIA recovery operations "our most robust PACOM program in Vietnam," during March 8 testimony before the Senate Armed Services Committee.

Marine said he regularly urges the Vietnamese government to maintain its cooperation and to take concrete steps to allow full access to all archival records, renewed joint activities in the Central Highlands, and a concerted effort to conduct underwater activities.

"Right now, there are teams spread out across Vietnam conducting investigations and recovery activities," he said. He referred to five recovery teams, two research and investigative teams and an investigation team from the Joint POW/MIA Accounting Command that deployed to Vietnam in early March.

The Defense Department announced two recent successes in this effort earlier this month, resulting in the remains of six servicemembers being identified and returned to their families for burial.

On April 25, Defense Department officials announced that the remains of Marine 2nd Lt. Heinz Ahlmeyer Jr., Marine Sgt. James N. Tycz, Marine Lance Cpl. Samuel A. Sharp Jr., and Navy Petty Officer 3rd Class Malcolm T. Miller were identified.

The four men were part of a reconnaissance patrol operating in Quang Tri province, South Vietnam, when they came under attack and were killed May 10, 1967. Their surviving patrol members were rescued later that morning, but the four men's bodies could not be recovered, officials said.

In the fall of 1991, several Vietnamese citizens visited the U.S. POW/MIA Office in Hanoi, claiming to have access to the remains of U.S. servicemen. One of the Vietnamese men provided bone and teeth fragments.

Between 1993 and 2004, eight joint U.S.-Vietnamese teams led by the Joint POW/MIA Accounting Command interviewed and surveyed the skirmish area and two other joint teams conducted excavations and recovered remains. After extensive analysis, scientists from JPAC positively identified the four missing men.

Sharp was buried April 23 in San Jose, Calif. Ahlmeyer, Tycz and Miller will be buried at Arlington National Cemetery May 10, 38 years after they were killed.

On April 12, the department announced that two Army officers missing from the Vietnam War since 1971, Col. Sheldon Burnett and Warrant Officer 3 Randolph Ard, were positively identified and their remains were returned to their families for burial.

The two officers died when their OH-58A helicopter was hit by enemy anti-aircraft fire and crashed in Savannakhet province, Laos. After 11 days of heavy resistance, South Vietnamese ground troops reached the crash site but found no trace of the missing men or any graves.

Between 1989 and 1996, joint U.S.-Lao teams led by JPAC conducted five separate field investigations, without success. Then in 2002, U.S. specialists interviewed four former North Vietnamese soldiers, three who had seen the bodies of the unaccounted-for soldiers. The fourth Vietnamese soldier had drawn a sketch of the area shortly after the incident.

In 2003, the four Vietnamese witnesses and local Lao villagers guided the team to the crash site, where they found aircraft wreckage but no human remains. In August and September 2004, JPAC and Lao specialists excavated the crash site and two nearby graves, where they found human remains, U.S. military clothing and Ard's identification tag.

After extensive analysis of the remains recovered at the site, JPAC scientists positively identified Ard and Burnett.

JPAC officials acknowledge that achieving these successes can be "agonizingly slow" and is frequently difficult and downright dangerous.

At an April 7 ceremony at the JPAC headquarters at Hickam Air Force Base, Hawaii, Maj. Gen. W. Montague Winfield, commander, and his staff paid tribute to 16 men who died during a POW/MIA recovery mission in Vietnam four years earlier. Seven JPAC members and nine Vietnamese government counterparts were killed when their MI-17 helicopter crashed in the mountains of Vietnam on April 7, 2001.

Marine expressed appreciation for support both countries are providing to bring closure to missing servicemembers' families. "I want to thank the dedicated men and women - both American and Vietnamese - who work so hard to find answers for the loved ones of these soldiers," he said.

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Stephen Jaffe/Agence France-Presse — Getty Images
During his visit in 2000, former President Bill Clinton helped Dan and David Evert, behind him, search for the remains of their father, an airman.
 
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I think you need to thank China for that. :)

traitor can not say like that. what china did in VN war ?, stopped help from 1968 and begged Nixon to visit Peking China 1972.
 
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On 12 February 1973 twenty-seven American and South Vietnamese POWs were released in exchange for NVA/VC prisoners, organized by the Four Power Joint Military Commission. In this photo, North Vietnam soldiers are carrying Captain David Earle Baker, an injured American POW who was captured 27 June 1972, from a hospital tent to the release point

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A joint U.S. and Vietnamese anthropological team on Dong Nua Mountain, Quang Binh Province is shown collecting buckets of earth which will be sifted through in an effort to locate personal effects of American soldiers listed as missing in action (MIA). Photographed 8 Feb 1991.

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After the return of the POWs, there were still many servicemen missing. U.S. teams conducted some very restricted searches in 1974 to account for Americans missing in South Vietnam, with limited success. At the same time, the work by the "Four Party Joint Military Commission" resulted in the return of 23 sets of remains of men who died in captivity in North Vietnam. The 1975 Communist victories in South Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia virtually halted U.S. work in the region as America was forced to completely withdraw.

Over the next decade, Vietnam returned few remains of missing Americans. In the mid-1980s, the U.S. and Vietnam increased the frequency of high-level policy and technical meetings to help resolve the POW/MIA issue. The U.S. government viewed this work as a humanitarian obligation. The Vietnamese slowly began to return American remains that they had previously collected and stored; eventually they permitted the U.S. to excavate a few crash sites.

The Lao government, with whom the U.S. maintained diplomatic relations, agreed to several crash-site excavations in the mid-1980s. This resulted in the return and identification of the remains of a few dozen Americans. Cambodia's political state of affairs did not permit in-country accounting work.
In 1988 a presidential emissary, General John Vessey, USA (Ret.), convinced the Vietnamese to permit U.S. teams to search throughout the country.
The MIA Search Continues

The most urgent investigations try to resolve the question of captive Americans remaining behind in Indochina. Working jointly, American and Vietnamese experts focused on "Last Known Alive" (LKA) cases, missing Americans whom the U.S. believed might have survived their initial loss incident. To date, the U.S. has identified 296 individuals as LKA in all of Southeast Asia. Following very deliberate and exhaustive investigative efforts, the Department of Defense has determined that more than 190 are deceased.

In 1992, the Joint Task Force-Full Accounting (JTF-FA) formed to expand U.S. field operations. Teams from this organization worked in Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia alongside their foreign counterparts. Together, they interviewed thousands of witnesses regarding the fate of missing Americans. Their hard work resulted in the location of crash and burial sites all over the region, so that the recovery elements made up primarily of Central Identification Laboratory, Hawaii (CILHI) personnel could excavate them. This work continues under the direction of the Joint POW/MIA Accounting Command (JPAC).

There are currently (2005) about 1,900 Americans unaccounted-for from the war in Southeast Asia. The work of the official departments and teams responsible for closing the gap has been criticized as too timid and ineffective. The Vietnamese have been obstructionist and manipulative at times. The status of the MIAs is very emotional and personal to friends and family and it is highly unfortunate that this sensitive subject has often been mishandled. Everyone should remain hopeful and insist that eventually all POW/MIAs from the Vietnam War will be found and brought home.
 
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