1965 war by international & Indian observers.

[SarthakGanguly]

Barha ehsan kia. We also did favor for you when we didn't attack you when your as$ was whipped by China in 1962.

There's always a next time. Prod the Chinese and take your chance. Opportunities don't come to you. Make them instead.

 

[Areesh]

There's always a next time. Prod the Chinese and take your chance. Opportunities don't come to you. Make them instead.

Finally I agree with you. We are waiting for the right time. And we know it would come.

 

[GreenFalcon]

Indians are still in denial...................

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Finally I agree with you. We are waiting for the right time. And we know it would come.

That is for sure. Pakistan was not destined to be a half measure. I just hope we are able to resist complete Islamization in future and are able to preserve our civilization. I hope that we don't follow the example of the entire area from the Western coast of Africa to the shores of Karachi.

 

[jaunty]

Pakistan has won every war against India but has nothing to show for.




inb4 dramaqueen says point 5353

 

[deckingraj]

I will try one more time to explain my point. Hopefully it may make sense to you.

My point is that India herself did the same in Kashmir didn't she? Raan of kutch, Haji Pr, Kargil happened before 1st September (when grand slam was initiated)...Looks like you only want to talk about Gibraltar while forgetting that the fight remained local until Indians got beaten in that local fight.

I hope you know what you are talking about....Rann of Kutch was an absolute separate incident and Pakistan side end up wining that local incident(they gained land as well). In fact lack of Indian response emboldened your leadership further.. This is when Gibraltar got into picture where your irregulars(well trained - lessons learned from 47-48) backed by your regulars attacked Kashmir. I believe this is what you keep referring as local fight...and were we beaten there?? Voila...well i am not sure why then Grand Slam came into picture...anyways i will leave that for you to decide what version of History you wanna believe...i know what version i will...however for last time...there is no such thing like a local conflict in Kashmir...a conflict is a conflict...just because there is LOC and not IB that separate us there, it doesn't mean any tom dick and harry can come there...Look when we toy the same line your entire leadership threat us with nuclear war....right??

As for crap...Celebrating a war after fifty years just because Modi says so, itself is a testament of who is fed crap..

This is South Asia buddy...you guys do believe you won in Kargil...right?? Are you celebrating it?? 65 was a stalemate and we should leave it like that...Indians are happy lot because we defeated your nefarious plan of annexing kashmir...Pakistani's are happy lot because they halted India's advances across IB...this is where it ends...rest 65 should have been used for learning the areas of improvements...I believe IA did a wonderful job there and 71 is a proof of that...Did PA learned their lesson's from 65...i will leave it for you to decide...

 

[SQ8]

Oscar, atleast i am not discussing who won or who lost, that's a whole new debate and will require to point the follies nd success at both sides. It's just the pick n chose attitude that the Indians display to suit their agendas that i am after.

Cant help our neighbours. At least we let them post around like this, try the same at any Indian forum and you wont last more than a few hours.

 

[Bang Galore]

India wanted to capture Lahore. They tried. They brought their full force. Their tried their best. And failed.



Lol. I love it when bharati kids claim victory on 65 war. Nothing more laughable than that.



I have complete understanding of what happened that's why I consider 65 war as a stalemate and laugh at your claims of victory. No wonder your soldiers faint during "victory" celebrations.

Laugh away. Celebrate your "saved the underpants" day.....congratulations . 50 years after you attempted to take the Indian part of Kashmir, we still have it.

 

[Indus Falcon]

Barha ehsan kia. We also did favor for you when we didn't attack you when your as$ was whipped by China in 1962.

What do you think would have happened, had we done that?

 

[Indus Pakistan]

India is 7 times larger then Pakistan it has been militarily pathetic

If you have gone toe to toe with a nation 7 times smaller than yourself for over 60 years then you really have major issues

Can you imagine the following countries on the left punching the ones on the right? The disparity of about 6.5 to 1 is same as in India/Pak populations.

Tiny Belguim taking on Germany
Tiny Romania taking on Russia
Tiny Denmark taking on France
Uttar Pradesh alone taking on China.
Kerala alone alone taking on Pakistan.

List of European countries by population - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
States and union territories of India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

After 68 years what have they done with the massive 7:1 advantage? Just once India faced enemy that was about equal as in 1:1 when it faced China. You know what what happened. India got thrashed.

 

[Bang Galore]

Can you imagine the following countries on the left punching the ones on the right? The disparity is about 6.5 to 1 as in India/Pak populations.

Tiny Belguim versus Germany
Tiny Romania versus Russia
Tiny Denmark taking on France
Uttar Pradesh alone taking on China.
Kerala alone alone taking on Pakistan.

If we took your point at face value, what does it tell about the intelligence in a country that chooses to go to war with India? Supposedly with the odds stacked like you say?

 

[silent poison]

Hi ,

To all the Pakistani who claims about size of Indian Military vs Pakistan Military during 1965 war should also remember India has lost many of its officers commanders during 1962 war with PLA .

And second many of officer in 1965 were just came out of the army academy .

And India need to keep its enough strength on Chinese border for any misadventure by PLA .

Now the claim of fighting larger army by PA can be well understand .

Point -2 Technology .

At any given day Patton tanks will outperformed Indian Centurions and Sherman tanks

Army Techinlogy lead Pakistan

Air Force with jets like F-86 and star fighter the clear edge goes to PAF .

Navy - if not whole then most of the Indian naval vessel including its carrier was going through refitment when war starts .

Economy - i doubt Pakistani claim of having poorer economy ... The Pakistanis used to have edge in economy till 1964 and the day they read US report they got ransack on the Military expenditure which increased from 4.82% to 9.89% of the GDP during 1964-1965. Then they claim they have bad economy during war .!!! Probably it was the best time in all four war for Pakistani economy .

So, basically we can say Pakistani has edge in all four sections explained above .

Rest happy defence day Pakistanis and Happy victory day Indians .

Last point i miss akhnoor Jammu Highway read about it Pakistani .!!!

 

[Psychic]

Gibraltar was a failed operation and Indians made advances in Pakistani held Kashmir in response, didn't it?
That's how it happened:

1- Failed operation Gibraltar.

2- Indian occupation of Pakistani held territories in Kashmir.

3- Pakistani advances in Indian held Jammu/ Kashmir.

4- Outbreak of an all out war (which remained militarily inconclusive).

I never denied op Gibraltar or Grand slam...merely pointed out the fact that attacks in Kashmir were made by both sides on each other, while one can say that Gibraltar started it all but ignoring the Indian response in force is dishonesty. Indians themselves wanted to give response of Gibraltar in a localized conflict but when they failed in doing that because of Grand Slam, they started an all out war (time and place of their own choice without a formal declaration of war).

That's exactly what i want to point out!

When it comes to 1965 war, Pakistan becomes the attacker and you take the commencement of hostilities from Aug 1965 onwards (Op Gibraltar) and negate that the international border was crossed on 6 September by India.

but..

When it comes to 1971 War, Pakistan again becomes the aggressor when it attacked you on 3 December 1971 and you foolishly ignore the skirmishes / cross-border attacks by your forces well before that, and the conspiracy / activities by India as early as start of the year 1971.

Sir, there is no denying the fact that Pakistan indeed did Gibraltar and it did attack on 3 Dec 71, but it's the hypocrisy displayed by you guys when you pick-n-chose dates to your convenience that needs to be highlighted.

I hope you know what you are talking about....Rann of Kutch was an absolute separate incident and Pakistan side end up wining that local incident(they gained land as well). In fact lack of Indian response emboldened your leadership further.. This is when Gibraltar got into picture where your irregulars(well trained - lessons learned from 47-48) backed by your regulars attacked Kashmir. I believe this is what you keep referring as local fight...and were we beaten there?? Voila...well i am not sure why then Grand Slam came into picture...anyways i will leave that for you to decide what version of History you wanna believe...i know what version i will...however for last time...there is no such thing like a local conflict in Kashmir...a conflict is a conflict...just because there is LOC and not IB that separate us there, it doesn't mean any tom dick and harry can come there...Look when we toy the same line your entire leadership threat us with nuclear war....right??

Air Force with jets like F-86 and star fighter the clear edge goes to PAF .

Hawker Hunter​

Performance

• Maximum speed: 1,150 km/h
  

  Navy - if not whole then most of the Indian naval vessel including its carrier was going through refitment when war starts .

  
  
• Service ceiling: 50,000 ft
• Rate of climb: (87.4 m/s)
• Thrust/weight: 0.56

Armament

• Guns: 4× 30 mm (1.18 in) ADEN revolver cannon in a removable gun pack with 150 rpg

F-86 Sabre​

• Maximum speed: 1,106 km/h
• Service ceiling: 49,600 ft
• Rate of climb: (45.72 m/s)
• Thrust/weight: 0.42

Armament

• Guns: 6 X 0.50 in (12.7 mm) M3 Browning machine guns (1,800 rounds in total)

Navy - if not whole then most of the Indian naval vessel including its carrier was going through refitment when war starts .

You forgot that India even had a cruiser, even if much talked about AC is left aside, IN was superior than PN in terms of numbers and type of vessels.

When India gets a thrashing from much smaller Pakistan

than it must be technological fault or some loss some 3 years ago or some refits or some "un operational mig 21s".

India has lost many of its officers commanders during 1962 war with PLA .

How many? Are you even serious? BTW at that time, Ayub Khan proposed joint defense pact against China which was rejected by Indians...

Last point i miss akhnoor Jammu Highway read about it Pakistani .!!!

Gen chaudry missed his peg and his men missed bara khana at Lahore gymkhana.

 

[PDF]

Your aim in starting the war was to capture territory from India. Failing that, and desperately defending your own land is considered FAILURE.

It's really ludicrous, to hear you boasting about defending your own land, after starting a war to take the enemy's land

Every side has its own views. We believe we did beat India by defending our land with a small army. Even if someone consider that we attacked your side first, it is still a shame that you people having a much larger army could not fight as it should be expected. Anyway, there is no point to fight over history.
Have a nice day.

 

[Areesh]

Laugh away. Celebrate your "saved the underpants" day.....congratulations . 50 years after you attempted to take the Indian part of Kashmir, we still have it.

I don't celebrate anything. My research on this war is done. It was a stalemate. You can celebrate your "victory" as much as you want to.