17 Indian Army soldiers killed in Uri attack

[Spectre]

Not quite, they are all related, no matter how much you deny.

How are foreign terrorists from Pakistan conducting an attack in IA which had no role in the death of the girl are related? Boy was killed when local Kashmiri policemen fired pellets on the local Kashmiri protestors

 

[Dazzler]

How are foreign terrorists from Pakistan conducting an attack in IA which had no role in the death of the girl are related? Boy was killed when local Kashmiri policemen fired pellet girls on the local Kashmiri protestors

Where is your proof that they came from pakistan?? You are beating the same bush again and again.


Here you go...

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/proof

proof
pruːf/
noun

1. 1.
   evidence or argument establishing a fact or the truth of a statement.
   "you will be asked to give proof of your identity"
   synonyms: evidence, verification, corroboration, authentication, confirmation, certification,validation, attestation, demonstration, substantiation, witness, testament; More
2. 2.
   PRINTING
   a trial impression of a page, taken from type or film and used for making corrections before final printing.
   synonyms: page proof, galley proof, galley, pull, slip, trial print;
   revise
   "a desk strewn with the proofs of a book he was correcting"

adjective

1. 1.
   able to withstand something damaging; resistant.
   "the marine battle armour was proof against most weapons"
   synonyms: resistant, impenetrable, impervious, repellent; More
   
2. 2.
   denoting a trial impression of a page or printed work.
   "a proof copy is sent up for checking"

verb

1. 1.
   make (fabric) waterproof.
   "the flysheet is made from proofed nylon"
2. 2.
   make a proof of (a printed work, engraving, etc.).
   "proofing could be done on a low-cost printer"

 

[Spectre]

I can quote a thousand quotes with opposing views

To rush into explanations is always a sign of weakness by Agatha Christie

It is easy to be wise in the explanation of an experience one has not personally witnessed by Algernon Blackwood

All definitions, explanations, distinctions, evaluations tend to be self-serving by Marty Rubin

We have, as human beings, a storytelling problem. We're a bit too quick to come up with explanations for things we don't really have an explanation for by Malcolm Gladwell

World is not as simple as bunch of quotes which just sound wise with no substance whatsoever by smuhs1

What i presented was not a quote but a logical instrument widely used and developed as a problem solving technique. What you have provided are quotes by celebrities present and past falling in the same category as village wisdom.

However you are welcome

Where is your proof that they came from pakistan?? You are beating the same bush again and again.


Here you go...

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/proof

proof
pruːf/
noun

1. 1.
   evidence or argument establishing a fact or the truth of a statement.
   "you will be asked to give proof of your identity"
   synonyms: evidence, verification, corroboration, authentication, confirmation, certification,validation, attestation, demonstration, substantiation, witness, testament; More
2. 2.
   PRINTING
   a trial impression of a page, taken from type or film and used for making corrections before final printing.
   synonyms: page proof, galley proof, galley, pull, slip, trial print;
   revise
   "a desk strewn with the proofs of a book he was correcting"

adjective

1. 1.
   able to withstand something damaging; resistant.
   "the marine battle armour was proof against most weapons"
   synonyms: resistant, impenetrable, impervious, repellent; More
2. 2.
   denoting a trial impression of a page or printed work.
   "a proof copy is sent up for checking"

verb

1. 1.
   make (fabric) waterproof.
   "the flysheet is made from proofed nylon"
2. 2.
   make a proof of (a printed work, engraving, etc.).
   "proofing could be done on a low-cost printer"

1. Markings on the weapons retrieved.

2. MO displayed which is similar to patterns observed in the prior attacks by Pakistani terrorists.

3. GPS grids from devices recovered.

 

[Pandora]

What i presented was not a quote but a logical instrument widely used and developed as a problem solving technique. What you have provided are quotes by celebrities present and past falling in the same category as village wisdom.

However you are welcome

Einstein in one of the most quoted people on this planet and he was just a physicist. Like i said quotes are not iron clad rules but just source of inspiration.

As for your logic of Simplest Explanation is often the most probable one
you cant apply simple logic in a complex world where thousands of papers on psychology are published every month which very much blow this naive statement to oblivion. In my opinion this statement is from a lazy fool who didnt want to get out of bed to explain.

 

[Spectre]

Sorry, that is your assumption, and it is untrue.

I AM REFERRING SPECIFICALLY TO THE URI ATTACK.

It is undeniable that the Kashmir unrest is part of the very big picture, but the number of layers involved is large. All layers are connected, but in a certain gradation; everything is not connected to everything else. I could spend a useful one hour detailing the interconnects, but don't want to take the time to explain to those - almost everybody in this forum - who already know everything about everything and don't need to be confused with the facts.

I had to read your post like 10 times. Now this is what i called a layered post - After skimming, i thought I was being insulted, after first proper read I thought every one else was, after 2nd read I got the gist.

 

[Dazzler]

What i presented was not a quote but a logical instrument widely used and developed as a problem solving technique. What you have provided are quotes by celebrities present and past falling in the same category as village wisdom.

However you are welcome



1. Markings on the weapons retrieved.

2. MO displayed which is similar to patterns observed in the prior attacks by Pakistani terrorists.

3. GPS grids from devices recovered.

So this is your proof,

see these, according to your analogy, you admit that your country is instigating terrorism in pakistan right?

 

[Hellfire]

@Spectre @Joe Shearer

The "indian vickers machine gun" Swat is:

Russian PKM LMG!!! Nice try!!!!

 

[Spectre]

So this is your proof,

see these, according to your analogy, you admit that your country is instigating terrorism in pakistan right?

From your PoV - certainly. This comprises of proof.

@Spectre @Joe Shearer

The "indian vickers machine gun" Swat is:

Russian PKM LMG!!! Nice try!!!!

Sorry I know as much about weapons as I know about ornithology- which is to say nothing. So I had to concede that point to @Dazzler

 

[Tipu7]

In early 2016, on PDF I debated about Kashmir issue with couple of Indian members and pointed out that if India respect human rights and give up her claims on Jammu & Kashmir in the light of promises made by their founding fathers, then peace will restore in region and South Asia can turn into a influenced region in World. Poor Indian soldiers are paying price of immoral strategic games played by high elite.
But my Indian counterparts refused this idea and said that they don't care about loss of lives in Kashmir as they are nation of over billion and they will remain in Kashmir no matter how heavy price their soldiers will pay, they claimed that India has full capability to "absorb" military casualties and tensions in Kashmir is now part of history.

Now today, after six months situation is entirely changed. Freedom movement is on full swing, Indian state terrorism is on high and loss of "ONLY" 20 soldiers is not acceptable by those who were happily willing to "absorb" as many casualties as possible just few months ago.

It's hypocrisy of new low limit. They say one thing today, next day they change their stance by 180 degree.

 

[Hellfire]

@Spectre Russian PKM above

here. I am busy and going offline for few days. hence pointers for you


Indian 7.62 mm Vickers LMG an excellent weapon. Here

@Joe Shearer

Come on this is fun!

 

[nair]

If the terrorists are smart.... There are chances of a big Ticket attack in pak .. ... The blame would automatically directed towards India.. .. and we are back to square one....

Why this Post?

@Spectre Russian PKM above

here. I am busy and going offline for few days. hence pointers for you


Indian 7.62 mm Vickers LMG an excellent weapon. Here

@Joe Shearer

Come on this is fun!

 

[Hellfire]

@Spectre

Now I trust you to be able to debunk and not concede on bluffs.

Last few words before I go offline for some days.


1. There has been a reduction in number of camps and definitely a significant decrease in infiltration. However the former was due to US pressure and the latter is mainly due to a better grid established.

2. The day OBL was killed, that was the day US lost its vice like grip over Pakistan. That is the rationale why, my dear @Spectre you frustrate me with your very narrow spectrum of thinking. Ajmal Kasab - useless for India, expenditure on exchequer, but it ensured that US maintained pressure on Pakistan.

3. If you correlate the divergence in US-Pak relations, it was strained till OBL was eliminated. Once it was achieved, Pakistan went on its own course. Today, Pakistan simply thumbs its nose on US. The only little bit of support US has is from the officer cadre of PA to some extent, but that also is fading as the policy of cutting back on US Aid to Pakistan is counter-productive as there is literally no incentive to PA officers to listen to US. China has only gladly filled this void, hence you see PA trying to establish its supremacy over civil law enforcement agencies in CPEC too. The SSD spat with NS govt is a case in example.

4. The markings and all do not matter. Weapons can be brought from anywhere. The clincher was the map with matrices and GPS coordinates as recovered. However, it is immaterial.

5. When I said 17 is hardly a cost, I meant it. The alternative is thousands of casualties with a rash action. Even US took a week plus to act on Sept 9/11. Everything has to be thought out. You simply can not launch an attack on whims and fancies. Any attack will have to be done taking US and Russia on board. Perhaps, Mumbai attack was actually a time when Obama called up Pakistan to tell that India would be justified in hitting them.

6. The only option for India is to strengthen it's own procedures and not re-act. A war is never won by reactions. Revenge is a dish best served cold - with minimal costs to own self. Read Sun Tzu. It makes sense.

7. I will urge you to think on what I just wrote.

@nair

Post number #808 of TTC. Telling spectre where they just bluffed. You can say ... adding spice to the exchange!

 

[notorious_eagle]

@Spectre @Joe Shearer

The "indian vickers machine gun" Swat is:

Russian PKM LMG!!! Nice try!!!!

Sir

I usually avoid these usual di** measuring contests, but i can tell you from the horse's mouth, a full leading Colonel who actively served in Bajaur and Torkham, he directly blamed Indian support for terrorist elements in Balochistan and FATA.

After interrogation, members of the BRA revealed that they received weapons and money from Indian elements in Afghanistan. This has been forwarded to Americans not once but multiple times. This is what lead to American crackdown on NDS and Indian elements in Afghanistan to placate Pakistani concerns. Talal Bugti travelled to Switzerland on an Indian passport with a false name, this was revealed by Pakistani Minister of Defence. To say that there is no Indian involvement in FATA and especially Balochistan would be an understatement.

 

[Spectre]

@Spectre

Now I trust you to be able to debunk and not concede on bluffs.

Last few words before I go offline for some days.


1. There has been a reduction in number of camps and definitely a significant decrease in infiltration. However the former was due to US pressure and the latter is mainly due to a better grid established.

2. The day OBL was killed, that was the day US lost its vice like grip over Pakistan. That is the rationale why, my dear @Spectre you frustrate me with your very narrow spectrum of thinking. Ajmal Kasab - useless for India, expenditure on exchequer, but it ensured that US maintained pressure on Pakistan.

3. If you correlate the divergence in US-Pak relations, it was strained till OBL was eliminated. Once it was achieved, Pakistan went on its own course. Today, Pakistan simply thumbs its nose on US. The only little bit of support US has is from the officer cadre of PA to some extent, but that also is fading as the policy of cutting back on US Aid to Pakistan is counter-productive as there is literally no incentive to PA officers to listen to US. China has only gladly filled this void, hence you see PA trying to establish its supremacy over civil law enforcement agencies in CPEC too. The SSD spat with NS govt is a case in example.

4. The markings and all do not matter. Weapons can be brought from anywhere. The clincher was the map with matrices and GPS coordinates as recovered. However, it is immaterial.

5. When I said 17 is hardly a cost, I meant it. The alternative is thousands of casualties with a rash action. Even US took a week plus to act on Sept 9/11. Everything has to be thought out. You simply can not launch an attack on whims and fancies. Any attack will have to be done taking US and Russia on board. Perhaps, Mumbai attack was actually a time when Obama called up Pakistan to tell that India would be justified in hitting them.

6. The only option for India is to strengthen it's own procedures and not re-act. A war is never won by reactions. Revenge is a dish best served cold - with minimal costs to own self. Read Sun Tzu. It makes sense.

7. I will urge you to think on what I just wrote.

@nair

Post number #808 of TTC. Telling spectre where they just bluffed. You can say ... adding spice to the exchange!

I never said that I don't understand the line of reasoning. I do. It is just that I don't agree with it. Yours is Kissinger approach - the old exploit and not enforce rule book followed till recently by CIA and foggy bottom since 60s.

Mine is the enforcement - stop it on it's tracks without concern for probable but not certain accrued gains in future.

I have had a lot of debate on this irl with diplomats and such but like all things its a matter of opinion.

Regards

 

[Hellfire]

Sir

I usually avoid these usual di** measuring contests, but i can tell you from the horse's mouth, a full leading Colonel who actively served in Bajaur and Torkham, he directly blamed Indian support for terrorist elements in Balochistan and FATA.

After interrogation, members of the BRA revealed that they received weapons and money from Indian elements in Afghanistan. This has been forwarded to Americans not once but multiple times. This is what lead to American crackdown on NDS and Indian elements in Afghanistan to placate Pakistani concerns. Talal Bugti travelled to Switzerland on an Indian passport with a false name, this was revealed by Pakistani Minister of Defence. To say that there is no Indian involvement in FATA and especially Balochistan would be an understatement.

I have said TTP we don't support. Very categorically. That organisation is not our baby. Sorry. That is Saudi baby you have. You try to throw that on us too.

Rest is off topic. I have always said 'calibrated' trouble in Baluchistan is a possibility.

The weapon post was posted to debunk the proof as posted. It is the wrong make and wrong weapon. A Russian PKM being passed off as Indian Vickers LMG is a laugh ... that is all.