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1500 years old Bible in which 'Jesus predicts coming of Prophet Muhammad' unearthed in Turkey

If I give you my Quran from my home and you take it to I believe Turkey where they have the oldest Quran and you compare page by page there will be no difference.
@DesiGuy
If I give you my Quran from EU and you take it to Indonesia, you will have the same from page to page...heck even the letters from page to page will be similar...you can find this on the websites also....
 
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@DesiGuy you started with sympathizing with @MarkusS by saying Muslims want to attack Christians and Jews when you know not even the basics...Whereby we all believe at least from Adam to Abraham! We may differ after that but you hid the similarities

You used the same techniques for Shia and Sunni, you refused me showing you the similarities but want to highlight the differences....You fuel on fights which is disgusting! Really disgusting!

@MarkusS when we discuss dont stoop low because of your pride or anger...Even in the bible 7 sins are considered dangerously poisonous!

You only want insult christianity. Thats all.
 
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Whereas if I give you my bible and you take it to Rome you would not be able to even compare it to the older manuscripts because they are written in Latin or Armaic. :cheesy:

The only surviving Armaic speakers are a tribe in Syria who are now mostly Muslims.
 
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When did I insult Christianity? In fact you tried to insult Islam and the prophet!!

You say bible mentions your prophet...which is a lie to speak bad about christianity. And i did not insult your prohet. I simply don´t believe he even existed. You can believe in your religion i´m fine with that
 
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Islam wants Muslims to believe Jews and Christians are Kitabiya - A Muslim concept. but NOT vice versa. because, Christians nor Jews or Hindus wants to live the life of a Dhimmi accepting your Kitabiya(Ahl-e-Kitab IINM).

Christians from the start have seen muslims as satan worshippers. but because of their numbers, Vatican or Protestants will dare to claim their beliefs as so since Christians or Jews wants to live anyway. below is an example what European Christians thought about Musalman:
(source not quoted because "tolerant" Momin's will feel "offended" but you can anyway, get it from the links or giyf)
2qnxki8.jpg

This illustration, taken from the German book Mahomets und Türcken Grewel published in Frankfurt in 1664, depicts Mohammed in the bottom panel being tormented by demons. The book is “An account of the wars between Austria and Turkey in the 1660′s, prefaced by an account of Islam.” It was sold at auction by Sotheby’s in 2002.
(Hat tip: Kilgore Trout.)

while muslims will strive to prove that Islam is scientific,modern, word from the creator and much more. but, those who have scrutinized,analysed Koran and Hadiths will want to disagree. but, since Muslims are much more religious and are a formidable force, increasing in number it is totally unwise for ANY to debunk Koran and Islamic history in open as it is deemed as "Islamophobia" . so, the politically correct viewpoint maintained by most non-muslim countries and it's people.
 
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I thought religious discussions weren't allowed on PDF? That's what the moral maulvis here keep telling me.

I now realise however, that rule exists only for kafirs, pure bred muslims can flaunt this rule as long as they think they are winning, the moment their ego gets hurt, they will "sanction" you. I'm talking from experience.
 
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You only want insult christianity. Thats all.

Mate it is you who insult us by saying that we believe on a person who didn't exist and now claiming that we insulting Christianity? what a pity. Please come up with logic not with emotions.
 
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Mate it is you who insult us by saying that we believe on a person who didn't exist and now claiming that we insulting Christianity? what a pity. Please come up with logic not with emotions.

As i said, i respect your religion, and i expect you to respect mine. I don´t care about Mohammed. He is not my prophet. If you honor him i´m completly fine with that, but don´t expect me to honor him. deal?
 
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Christians from the start have seen muslims as heretics and satan worshippers. but because of their numbers, Vatican or Protestants will dare to claim their beliefs as so since Christians or Jews wants to live anyway.
(source not quoted because "tolerant" Momin's will feel "offended" but you can anyway, get it from the links or giyf)
2qnxki8.jpg

This illustration, taken from the German book Mahomets und Türcken Grewel published in Frankfurt in 1664, depicts Mohammed in the bottom panel being tormented by demons. The book is “An account of the wars between Austria and Turkey in the 1660′s, prefaced by an account of Islam.” It was sold at auction by Sotheby’s in 2002.
(Hat tip: Kilgore Trout.)

while muslims will strive to prove that Islam is scientific,modern, word from the creator and much more. but, those who have scrutinized,analysed Koran and Hadiths will want to disagree. but, since Muslims are much more religious and are a formidable force, increasing in number it is totally unwise for ANY to debunk Koran and Islamic history. so, the politically correct viewpoint maintained by most non-muslim countries and it's people.

What is the history of the Austrians and the Turks? Why would they not have a problem with Islam? Are you stupid?

As i said, i respect your religion, and i expect you to respect mine. I don´t care about Mohammed. He is not my prophet. If you honor him i´m completly fine with that, but don´t expect me to honor him. deal?

No problem but you did not answer me, there a millions of Muhammad PBUH descendants all over the world, we have his grave in Saudi Arabia, and his worse enemies attested to his existence.
 
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I. Why So Many Versions?
"Breaking up is hard to do," as the song goes. Ma Bell did it--creating a glut of long distance companies almost as numerous as brands of deodorant.

The Bible did it, too. Before the year 1881 you could read any version you wanted--as long as it was the King James Version. But since 1881, scores of new translations have been printed.

How did the King James get dethroned? Which translation is best today? Are any of the modern translations really faithful to the original? These are some of the questions we'll be looking at in this essay. But initially, we'd just like to get a bird’s eye view. We simply want an answer to the question, "Why are there so many versions of the Bible?"

There are three basic influences which have given birth to a multitude of translations.

First, in 1881 two British scholars published a Greek New Testament which was based on the most ancient manuscripts then available. This text, by Brook Foss Westcott and Fenton John Anthony Hort, made several notable departures from the Greek text which King James translators used. For the most part, the Westcott-Hort text was a shorter New Testament. That's because the older manuscripts (MSS) which they used did not contain passages such as the longer ending of Mark's gospel of the story of the women caught in adultery. The Greek MSS which the King James translators followed included these and many other passages.

At the same time the Westcott-Hort text made its debut, the English Revised Version of the New Testament appeared. A new era was born in which translations of the New Testament now used the few ancient Greek MSS rather than the many later ones.

Second, since 1895 many archeological and manuscript discoveries have been made which have which have pronounced judgment on some of the renderings found in the King James. The single most important discovery was that of the Egyptian papyri. In 1895, Adolf Deissmann published a volume, given the unassuming title, Bible Studies (Bibelstudien), which revolutionized NT scholarship. Deissmann discovered that ancient papyrus scraps, buried in Egyptian garbage dumps some 2,000 years ago, contained Greek which was quite similar to the Greek of the NT. He concluded that the Greek of the NT was written in the common language of the day. It was not the dialect which only the most elite could understand. Since Deissmann's discovery, translators have endeavored to put the NT into language the average person could comprehend--just as it was originally intended. Not only that but the papyri have helped us to understand many words--words which were only guessed at by King James translators.

Finally, there have been philosophical influences. That is, the theory of translation is being revamped today. Missionaries have made a significant contribution toward this end--because they are eager to see a particular tribe read the Bible in its own language.

These three differences--textual, informational, philosophical--have been the parents of a new generation of Bible translations. But are these translations any good? Are they any better than the King James?

For the rest of the essay, we will examine each of these influences and then, finally, try to see which translation is best.

II. The Text of Modern Translations
Where have all the verses gone? The modern translations seem to have cut out many of the most precious lines of Scripture. They end Mark's gospel at the 8th verse of chapter 16; they omit the reference of the angel of the Lord stirring the waters at the pool of Bethesda (verse 4 of 1 but I respect their scholarship.)

Finally, we ought to quit labeling one another as heretics or idiots in the ongoing discussion. There needs to be charity on both sides. One of my college professors frequently said, "The Christian army is the only army in the world that shoots its wounded!" Unfortunately, this is especially true when it comes to translations of the Bible.

III. Deissmann and the Papyri
In1895 a German pastor by the name of Adolf Deissmann published a rather innocent-sounding volume: Bible Studies. Yet, this single volume started a revolution in NT scholarship--a revolution in which the common man was the winner.

In the 1800s Deissmann began reading ancient Greek MSS. But not the great classical authors. He was reading private letters, business transactions, receipts, marriage contracts. What were these documents? Merely scraps of papyrus (the ancient forerunner to paper) found in 2,000-year-old Egyptian garbage dumps. In these seemingly insignificant papyri, Deissmann discovered a key to uncover the NT! For these papyri contained the common Greek language of the first century A.D. They were written in the vocabulary of the NT.

What's so revolutionary about that? you ask. It is revolutionary because up until 1895, biblical scholars had no real parallels to the language of the NT. They often viewed its Greek asinvented by the Holy Spirit. They called it "Holy Ghost Greek." Now it is true that the ideas--even the words--were inspired by the Holy Spirit. But it's another thing to say that thelanguage of the NT was unusual--that its grammar and vocabulary were, in a word, unique. If this were true, only the spiritual elite could even hope to understand the NT.

Deismann's discovery burst the bubble on this view: the Greek of the NT was written in the language of the common man.

There are two implications of what Deissmann did for the Bible translations:

First, if the apostles wrote in easy-to-understand terms, then translations of the Bible should reflect this. We ought not to translate with big 50 cent religious-sounding words if the original was not written that way. The King James word 'propitiation,' for example, basically means 'satisfaction'--that is, God is satisfied with Christ's payment for our sins. Our Lord's final word from the cross, "It is finished," has been found on papyrus business documents--on receipts, if you will. It means "paid in full."

In other words, Bible translations need to be clear. One of the obvious proofs of this is that the gospel offends people. And it cannot be offensive unless it is understood!

Second, the papyri discoveries have helped us to understand words which the King James translators merely guessed at. For example, in the King James version of 2

Revised Standard Version
The RSV was completed in 1952 and was intended to be, in part, a revision of the King James. Of course, it used the ancient MSS of the NT, resulting in the omission of several verses and words. But the wording was still archaic. The RSV attempts to be a word-for-word translation where possible. The NRSV follows the same principle of translation, though has now become more "gender-inclusive" in its approach. At times this is very helpful; at other times, it is misleading.

New American Standard
The NASB is something of an evangelical counterpart to the RSV. It, too, was intended to be something of a revision of the King James. There are three major differences between the RSV and the NASB: first, the NASB is less archaic in its wording. Second, its translators were more conservative theologically than the RSV translators. Third, because of the translators' desire to adhere as closely to the wording of the original, often this translation is stilted and wooden. Still, the NASB is probably the best word-for-word translation available today.

New English Bible
The NEB was completed in 1971, after a quarter of a century of labor. It marks a new milestone in translation: it is not a revision, but a brand new translation. It is a phrase-for-phrase translation. Unfortunately, sometimes the biases of the translators creep into the text. The REB (Revised English Bible) follows the same pattern: excellent English, though not always faithful to the Greek and Hebrew.

New International Version
The NIV was published in 1978. It may be considered a counterpart to the NEB. It is more a phrase-for-phrase translation than a word-for-word translation, and the scholars were generally more conservative than those who worked on the NEB. I personally consider it the best phrase-for-phrase translation available today. However, its major flaw is in its simplicity of language. The editors wanted to make sure it was easy to read. In achieving this goal, they often sacrificed accuracy (in particular, in the NT, sentences are shortened, subordination of thought is lost, conjunctions are deleted).

New World Translation
Finally, a word should be said about the New World Translation by the Jehovah's Witnesses. Due to the sectarian bias of the group, as well as to the lack of genuine biblical scholarship, I believe that the New World Translation is by far the worst translation in English dress. It purports to be word-for-word, and in most cases is slavishly literal to the point of being terrible English. But, ironically, whenever a sacred cow is demolished by the biblical writers themselves, the Jehovah's Witnesses twist the text and resort to an interpretive type of translation. In short, it combines the cons of both worlds, with none of the pros.

In summary, I would suggest that each English-speaking Christian own at least a NASB or RSV and an NIV. As well, I think it would be helpful to possess a King James and even a New English Bible. And then, make sure that you read the book!


Why So Many Versions? | Bible.org


I didnt even write this!
 
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I thought religious discussions weren't allowed on PDF? That's what the moral maulvis here keep telling me.

I now realise however, that rule exists only for kafirs, pure bred muslims can flaunt this rule as long as they think they are winning, the moment their ego gets hurt, they will "sanction" you. I'm talking from experience.

Mate shoot your question and don't play games and you can mail me also if you want
 
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