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12th LCA joins the no45 Sqn- ACM declares 231 Tejas to be inducted

Have those folks never heard of PMPs?
Given that 90% of people online that talk smack about HAL have no clue of what it does and how efficiently it manages it's resources with limited sanction, scope and handicaps imposed on it. HAL as far as I know was the leader in Opex, utilizing Lean and six sigma in the country. When the rest of industry took pride in building Lada and Morris minors knockoffs right into the 90's , HAL was laying the ground work for current IAF fleet that fly's as of this day. Does HAL have issues, sure it does, compare it's management to IAF's or DRDO's, it 10 times as competent. ADA and IAF is another story that I do not wan't to dwell into.

People usually say HAL delivers 16 MKI/yr, forgetting that they are slated to deliver 16MKI's, 24 AJT's, 24ALH's, 8 LCA's, , and is capable of overhauling 16 Jaguars, 18 Mig27M, 8 Do228's alongside, and the number of LCH and HTT40's i am not sure about.
That is delivering about 72 brand new systems and capable of overhauling about 48 systems in a year, not to mention bunch of PSLV and GSLV components, development work on LCA, DARIN III, DARE upgrades, Mig21 bison schedule LGU replacements, CHeetak/Cheetah undercarriage repairs, Mirage 2000 Upgrades, Mig29UPG upgrades and Cemmilac/DGQA certifications for all ADA/DRDO systems. And while managing all of these systems still delivering a bottom line of 3000crs yoy to GoI.
 
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Your CRITICISAM is warranted and correct ………….. HAL and the development of LCA is a decade LATE

We should have 120 Tejas ……………….. NOT 12

Mark 2 should be reaching FOC just like GRIPEN NG

And the FIRST prototype of AMCA should be on display and ready for maiden flight 2020

" BUT ROME WAS NOT BUILT IN A DAY"

Keep the faith Hussain ……………

I do,

We had this conversation in the 2000s

Now its just funny
 
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Yes. But India is busy celebrating when ever a plane roll out of production line. It spend more time celebrating than actually work.

I kid you not 2005-2008 we were having this same dopey argument

The indians were predicting 250th tejas by 2015 or something

Its just cringeworthy listening to their predictions



Here they are chest beating over tejas number 12

Please gentlemen refer to the below thread, picked out from the many indian threads of similar nature

defence.pk/pdf/threads/iaf-to-procure-126-lca-tejas-fighters-by-2010.425/
IAF to procure 126 LCA Tejas fighters by 2010
Dated 2005
 
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Given that 90% of people online that talk smack about HAL have no clue of what it does and how efficiently it manages it's resources with limited sanction, scope and handicaps imposed on it. HAL as far as I know was the leader in Opex, utilizing Lean and six sigma in the country. When the rest of industry took pride in building Lada and Morris minors knockoffs right into the 90's , HAL was laying the ground work for current IAF fleet that fly's as of this day. Does HAL have issues, sure it does, compare it's management to IAF's or DRDO's, it 10 times as competent. ADA and IAF is another story that I do not wan't to dwell into.

People usually say HAL delivers 16 MKI/yr, forgetting that they are slated to deliver 16MKI's, 24 AJT's, 24ALH's, 8 LCA's, , and is capable of overhauling 16 Jaguars, 18 Mig27M, 8 Do228's alongside, and the number of LCH and HTT40's i am not sure about.
That is delivering about 72 brand new systems and capable of overhauling about 48 systems in a year, not to mention bunch of PSLV and GSLV components, development work on LCA, DARIN III, DARE upgrades, Mig21 bison schedule LGU replacements, CHeetak/Cheetah undercarriage repairs, Mirage 2000 Upgrades, Mig29UPG upgrades and Cemmilac/DGQA certifications for all ADA/DRDO systems. And while managing all of these systems still delivering a bottom line of 3000crs yoy to GoI.
Bhai your own government has declared that HAL is inefficient, why are you providing justifications when the Govt of India is calling its own department as inefficient and incompetent ?
 
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So India seek to stop precuring SU30 MKI and replace them with Tejas in the future?


No su30 order of 270 fighters will be complete by 2019/2020 took India 15 years to license build them .

The focus is now to build 230 Tejss to replace migs to compliment the massive mki fleet
 
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I kid you not 2005-2008 we were having this same dopey argument

The indians were predicting 250th tejas by 2015 or something

Its just cringeworthy listening to their predictions



Here they are chest beating over tejas number 12

Please gentlemen refer to the below thread, picked out from the many indian threads of similar nature

defence.pk/pdf/threads/iaf-to-procure-126-lca-tejas-fighters-by-2010.425/
IAF to procure 126 LCA Tejas fighters by 2010
Dated 2005

Let's also remember what pakistanis were saying, i.e. "Tejas would never get past IOC", "it will never get inducted", "IAF will reject it you'll see" and so on and so forth.
But here we are, with new production variants of Tejas flying almost every few months and new production lines opening.
 
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Let's also remember what pakistanis were saying, i.e. "Tejas would never get past IOC", "it will never get inducted", "IAF will reject it you'll see" and so on and so forth.
But here we are, with new production variants of Tejas flying almost every few months and new production lines opening.
Excuse me it was not pakistanis, it was your own Defence Minister Nirmala Sitharaman has done something unprecedented. She is openly defaming her Ministry’s high-tech public sector undertaking Hindustan Aeronautics Limited for alleged technological incompetence. Please correct yourself
Defence Minister Nirmala Sitharaman is openly defaming her ministry’s high tech undertaking HAL, just to defend the choice of Anil Ambani’s company as offset partner in the Rafale fighter jet deal
Defence Minister Nirmala Sitharaman has done something unprecedented. She is openly defaming her Ministry’s high-tech public sector undertaking Hindustan Aeronautics Limited for alleged technological incompetence, just to defend the selection of Anil Ambani’s new company as the offset partner in the Rafale deal. What is shocking is that the Defence Minister in her interaction with journalists in Delhi early this week remarked that the HAL did not have required capability to produce the Rafale fighter jets and later she observed that HAL and Dassault could not agree on production terms, so they could not go together. The responsibility of not concluding the agreement lay with the UPA government and not her government, she claimed.

The Defence Minister’s scathing attack on the capability of HAL has been immediately contested by the recently retired Chairman of the PSU, T Suvarna Raju in his interview to a leading daily on Wednesday, September 20. He said “When HAL can build a 25 tonne Sukhoi 30 from raw material stage, then what are we talking about? We could have definitely done Rafale”.

Sitharaman was not the defence minister in April 2015 when the announcement about the Rafale deal was made as a part of the India-France inter governmental agreement in Paris by Prime Minister Narendra Modi. Manohar Parrikar was the defence minister at the time. But still, as Parrikar’s successor, she has to project the developments correctly. In her eagerness to depict HAL in bad light, she has distorted the history of the actual developments that took place leading to the PM’s announcement of the Rafale deal and the subsequent exclusion of HAL on April 10, 2015. The developments show that HAL was supposed to be the collaborator until just two days before the PM’s announcement, as per the senior-most Indian officials, and there was no rift between the French company Dassault Aviation, makers of the Rafale jet, and HAL.

HAL is considered one of the top- ranking aero engineering and manufacturing companies in Asia and throughout its six decades of existence, this PSU has been continuously upgrading its technology and expertise to compete in the burgeoning global aerospace market. In 2017-18 financial year, HAL recorded a turnover of ₹18,519 crore and the company has a order book position of ₹61,123 crore as on March 31, 2018, despite a highly competitive market. India is likely to be the third largest aviation market in the world by 2025 and the country is forecasted to have a demand for a record 2,100 new aircraft worth US$ 290 billion.
 
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Excuse me it was not pakistanis, it was your own Defence Minister Nirmala Sitharaman has done something unprecedented. She is openly defaming her Ministry’s high-tech public sector undertaking Hindustan Aeronautics Limited for alleged technological incompetence. Please correct yourself
Defence Minister Nirmala Sitharaman is openly defaming her ministry’s high tech undertaking HAL, just to defend the choice of Anil Ambani’s company as offset partner in the Rafale fighter jet deal
Defence Minister Nirmala Sitharaman has done something unprecedented. She is openly defaming her Ministry’s high-tech public sector undertaking Hindustan Aeronautics Limited for alleged technological incompetence, just to defend the selection of Anil Ambani’s new company as the offset partner in the Rafale deal. What is shocking is that the Defence Minister in her interaction with journalists in Delhi early this week remarked that the HAL did not have required capability to produce the Rafale fighter jets and later she observed that HAL and Dassault could not agree on production terms, so they could not go together. The responsibility of not concluding the agreement lay with the UPA government and not her government, she claimed.

The Defence Minister’s scathing attack on the capability of HAL has been immediately contested by the recently retired Chairman of the PSU, T Suvarna Raju in his interview to a leading daily on Wednesday, September 20. He said “When HAL can build a 25 tonne Sukhoi 30 from raw material stage, then what are we talking about? We could have definitely done Rafale”.

Sitharaman was not the defence minister in April 2015 when the announcement about the Rafale deal was made as a part of the India-France inter governmental agreement in Paris by Prime Minister Narendra Modi. Manohar Parrikar was the defence minister at the time. But still, as Parrikar’s successor, she has to project the developments correctly. In her eagerness to depict HAL in bad light, she has distorted the history of the actual developments that took place leading to the PM’s announcement of the Rafale deal and the subsequent exclusion of HAL on April 10, 2015. The developments show that HAL was supposed to be the collaborator until just two days before the PM’s announcement, as per the senior-most Indian officials, and there was no rift between the French company Dassault Aviation, makers of the Rafale jet, and HAL.

HAL is considered one of the top- ranking aero engineering and manufacturing companies in Asia and throughout its six decades of existence, this PSU has been continuously upgrading its technology and expertise to compete in the burgeoning global aerospace market. In 2017-18 financial year, HAL recorded a turnover of ₹18,519 crore and the company has a order book position of ₹61,123 crore as on March 31, 2018, despite a highly competitive market. India is likely to be the third largest aviation market in the world by 2025 and the country is forecasted to have a demand for a record 2,100 new aircraft worth US$ 290 billion.

Oh yes, even though HAL is doing more comprehensive work then a lot of more self proclaimed competent people, in quite a few cases they are incompetent.
See for us competency means reaching western levels of economies of scale, production quality and quantity in the specified time, anything less is indeed incompetent.
However, that still doesn't make the Tejas any less lethal or the fact that it's rate of production is picking up.
 
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