100% price escalation on Rafale fighter aircraft to Rs 1.75 lakh crore likely to dent IAF's strike c

[LTE-TDD]

yep,we should go with the americans........for a a medium multirole fighter.....maybe superhornets or f-16 advanced blocks
they can provide some help with tejas

no problem, they will increase the price too, why not?

 

[SpArK]

Rafale: Reasons for buying

To be sure, the primary reason for selecting a Western aircraft – ahead of more potent Russian alternatives – is to reduce dependence on one vendor country.

The other objective is to acquire the full technology suite of a modern aircraft for local production. French technology is being pitched as the magic potion that will save the Tejas programme, while also providing a large boost to aerospace and defence electronics industries in India. Basically, it will allow India to move up from screwdriver technology to building entire fighter aircraft from scratch.

But will Dassault, which builds the Rafale, oblige? The French newspaper L’Usine Nouvelle cites complex electronics, and especially the Thales AESA radar, as being difficult to transfer. The Delhi-based Daily Pioneer predicts a “stream of news reports that we’ve already heard a thousand times before will come out telling us how unprepared our institutions are to receive this technology”.

There is no reason for the IAF to accept a downgraded Rafale. In view of the massive fall in living standards in the West in general and mass unemployment in France in particular, it is France, not India that has to compromise. The alternative for Dassault is the closure of its Rafale plant. Someone should sit with the French and show them the mirror.

The IAF is clear that it does not want to repeat the story of the HF-24 Marut fighter – the first Indian supersonic aircraft – which was developed in the 1960s by HAL and the freelancing German aerospace engineer Kurt Tank. Like the Tejas, the Marut too was an underpowered aircraft that was quietly retired.

If the French do not deliver the technology, there is no point spending billions on sterile imports – unless someone in the vicinity of South Block is seriously committed to kickbacks.

Rafale’s costs may defy gravity

Another problem with the Rafale is the ballooning cost. The MMRCA was a requirement of the 2000s but the extended competition has inflated costs to stratospheric levels – from $10 billion a decade ago to around $20 billion ( now 30 billion???)))), according to the New Delhi-based Institute for Defence Studies & Analysis (IDSA). Plus, nobody reckoned with the falling rupee, which has also increased the cost per plane.


Need for spending wisely

Acquiring the Rafale at such a prohibitive cost is extravagance which India cannot afford at a time when economic growth has hit an embarrassing 5 percent and the rupee is in free fall. “While it was presumed a few years ago that funds for defence would not be a constraint in the future, a slowing economy has led to these funds being curtailed,” says the IDSA. “The writing on the wall is clear: resource constraints are looming for the armed forces.”

When advanced Russian aircraft are available for less than half the price of the Rafale, it would be prudent to wait before signing on the line that is dotted. The money can be better spent on beefing up the Tejas programme. For the kind of cash we are talking, there is a hell of a lot of red hot technology that cash strapped defence companies .




True.

 

[LTE-TDD]

you dont understand......the russians may co develop with us but at the end they are unwilling to share key technologies with us like in the case of fgfa........

Is that hard to understand? why they have to share with you?

 

[BATMAN]

I think, India is looking at this deal as stop gap, in the backdrop of locally made LCA, MRCA, MMRCA and MMMRCA.

 

[vivINDIAN]

100% price escalation on Rafale fighter aircraft to Rs 1.75 lakh crore likely to dent IAF's strike capability


Sunday, Jan 26, 2014, 7:02 IST | Place: New Delhi | Agency: DNA

India’s biggest deal of procuring 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) for $18 billion (Rs90,000 crore) has hit rough weather. Two years after French aircraft maker Dassault Aviation bagged the deal for its Rafale fighter jets on account of being the lowest bidder, its cost has now shot up by 100 per cent.


In January 2012, when Rafale was declared the winner, its price was quoted between $60-65 million (Rs373-Rs400 crore). A top defence ministry official said the price of a fighter jet made by Dassault could now cost $120 million (Rs746 crore). The second bidder, Eurofighter, had quoted $80-85 million (Rs497-Rs528 crore).

The price hike would mean that the deal would cost India nothing less than $28-30 billion (Rs1.75 lakh crore-Rs1.86 lakh crore),” said an Indian Air Force (IAF) official, who is privy to discussions of the cost negotiation committee.

The defence ministry headed by AK Antony has developed cold feet after the cost doubled compared to the original estimate. With the general elections just months away, Antony is unsure about the fate of the deal, a defence ministry official said. “As the negotiations continue, the cost is spiralling out of hand. It is a major worry,” he said.

An IAF official said that in 2007, when the tender was floated, the cost of the programme was $12 billion (Rs42,000 crore). When the lowest bidder was declared in January 2012, the cost of the deal shot up to $18 billion (Rs90,000 crore).

Eighteen of the 126 planes will be purchased directly from Dassault, while Hindustan Aeronautics Limited will manufacture the other 108 under a licence, at an upcoming facility in Bangalore.

The IAF, which is fighting its depleting combat strength, was banking on Rafale as this was going to be the force’s leading fighter plane for the next four decades. “With chances of the MMRCA deal getting inked appearing dim, there seems to be no solution to the immediate problem of shrinking squadron numbers as existing aircraft are forced into retirement,” said another IAF official.

The air force is seeking to replace its ageing MiG-21s with a modern fighter and MMRCA fits between India’s high-end Sukhoi-30MKIs and its low-end Tejas LCA lightweight fighter. The IAF has a sanctioned strength of 45 fighter jet squadrons. However, it only has 30 squadrons operational as old aircraft have been retired.

dna exclusive: 100% price escalation on Rafale fighter aircraft to Rs 1.75 lakh crore likely to dent IAF's strike capability - India - DNA

the truth is we are never going to sign this MMRCA d.rafale deal
f*ck this

 

[typoerror]

invest in amca. buy 100 more sukhois. add 5 more squadrons of tejas. and yeah, cancel the deal.

 

[thesolar65]

I think what the French are doing is shear blackmail and why not? We have to blame ourselves only for this!! If you look around the globe we are the only country surrounded by two big enemies. For the last 65 years we have been buying military equipments from abroad without investing in defence R&D for about 40 years!! USSR gave us weapons @cheap because of cold war and we thought we would get that facility forever. Now the changed Russia also means business(learns the taste of money) and they have also tried to Blackmail us!! Everybody will screw you if you behave like what India is behaving. Be it US, EU, french, Russia, Israel...This should open our eyes.

Just think of this sentence "Whatever GOD does is for our own benefit". Take this as a challenge with a pinch of salt!!

First thing, buy some of those thing which we find it necessary for our security "with a heavy heart"!! Next go back to Drawing Board for Kaveri Engine, AMCA, LCA, Submarines, Tanks etc. And this time do it seriously taking the help of Private Industry, Honestly!!

Secondly try to solve boarder problems with at least Chinese as it will take off a lot of pressure as I do not think with Pakistan it will possible!!(for the time being).

This is my views as a Civilian
@Abingdonboy @SpArK @45'22' @rockstarIN

 

[45'22']

Is that hard to understand? why they have to share with you?

i dont have any problem........i was answering to a member who thought they will give all the tech

 

[janon]

The MKI order talk is utter horsesh!t- the IAF categorically ruled it out.


And the talk of price escalation has never been made official only "murmurs"/""rumours" from "unnamed sources"- it's all BS created by the nonsense Indian media.

The CEO of Dassault has stated that the cost would be ''a lot more than'' 20 billion dollars.

 

[karan.1970]

The CEO of Dassault has stated that the cost would be ''a lot more than'' 20 billion dollars.

any quotable link>?

 

[Abingdonboy]

Views of Olybrius a distinguished member from Mil Photo forum who knows a LOT about the Rafale and Dassualt:

$60-65 million $ is a flyaway cost and since 2012 it has not increased, $120 million for a "Rafale made by Dassault" can be anything but certainly not a flyaway cost. It looks like they are comparing apples and oranges, either through ignorance or bad faith (to create a buzz) .. Indian press at its best

 

[SQ8]

@h0mer

No ToT, no business...

People were dead against LCA coz of delays, now realizing that the delay is inevitable for a hi-tech programmes like fighter jet.

IN understood it and supported well, now IAF coming in terms of it.

No it isnt. The F-16 went through a very smooth development process even though it incorporated some ground breaking ideas.
The same can be said of other projects. The issue is with mismanagement by the administration running the development team and the lack of coordination and foresight between the customer and R&D.

 

[h0mer]

No it isnt. The F-16 went through a very smooth development process even though it incorporated some ground breaking ideas.
The same can be said of other projects. The issue is with mismanagement by the administration running the development team and the lack of coordination and foresight between the customer and R&D.

First time jet builders vs seasoned veterans? Not even close. I'm actually quite surprised that India was able to get the Tejas into Production.

1.) No jet building experience
2.) Crappy economy
3.) No aerospace infrastructure facilities
4.) No engineering talent.

They either fixed or implemented all of the above and got to the point where they can now design and manufacture jets on their own. Quite the feat. Engine tech and Radar tech still eludes them, but I believe they're not that far away on either of those fronts.

 

[Abingdonboy]

First time jet builders vs seasoned veterans? Not even close. I'm actually quite surprised that India was able to get the Tejas into Production.

1.) No jet building experience
2.) Crappy economy
3.) No aerospace infrastructure facilities
4.) No engineering talent.

They either fixed or implemented all of the above and got to the point where they can now design and manufacture jets on their own. Quite the feat. Engine tech and Radar tech still eludes them, but I believe they're not that far away on either of those fronts.

Post of the week for me.

 

[SQ8]

First time jet builders vs seasoned veterans? Not even close. I'm actually quite surprised that India was able to get the Tejas into Production.

1.) No jet building experience
2.) Crappy economy
3.) No aerospace infrastructure facilities
4.) No engineering talent.

They either fixed or implemented all of the above and got to the point where they can now design and manufacture jets on their own. Quite the feat. Engine tech and Radar tech still eludes them, but I believe they're not that far away on either of those fronts.

Not at all, its not the research that dogged the jet. It was piss poor project management. That has little to do with Aviation or any industry.. but rather management science.
Perhaps the fact that it was a government led initiative led to this.. by contrast.. the US aircraft industry has been a private ..and hence competitive venture since its inception.