052D可能最终停留在21艘

[CHI RULES]

China don't own you one, we can handle India alone.

Can you?

There is no free meal in this world, you have to earn it by your own.

No one give China a penny since year 1949, then who shall we blame?

Sir I am quite agreed with your message instead of begging Pak should go for self reliance and lessons/models of China should be benchmark. The progress has been started in case of PAF where a decade long project has been started. Further considering Chinese history it is perhaps the most trust worthy ally in world for Pakistan unlike many so called brotherly Muslim countries. Chinese have always resisted imperialism and like same for others.

We as a nation should learn and go for progress in science and technology like China has done.

Hi,

There is nothing modern available to pakistan in european ships---other than Turkey---.

Most european countries would have american parts and equipment---.

If u can pay u may got same tech from China as we may upgrade F22Ps with capable techs if willing to bear costs from China.

 

[MastanKhan]

China don't own you one, we can handle India alone.

Can you?

There is no free meal in this world, you have to earn it by your own.

No one give China a penny since year 1949, then who shall we blame?

Hi,

It is not a matter of " we owe "---it is a matter of being one.

absolutely there is free meal all over the world---israel - US---Britain - US---So Korea - US---Japan - US - Germany to US.

All these relationships are build on 'free meal'---because the US knows that it cannot do it all alone---it needs to carry the smaller nations along---the smaller nations indulge in whatever they can---but the US carries the load---.

And it is not a matter of taking on India alone---because there are other fronts that can be opened up against china by 'other' countries---.

 

[FuturePAF]

The Type 052D and Type 55 Destroyers are Blue Water ships build around the doctrine of the PLA-Navy. The Pakistani Navy's Warfighting strategy is different. It is more Littoral and focused on managing and defending small naval squadrons with massive amounts of firepower (i.e. missile boats and submarines).

Missile boats and submarines are being acquired, but ships to organize them and defend them are what we need.
what would be more focued on the Pakistani needs would be the following (but made to be as silent to submarine threats as the type 26 Royal navy frigate is planned to be)

6 Type 054B (http://mil.news.sina.com.cn/2013-08-22/0902736685.html) but equipeed with a mix of HQ-16 and HQ-9s

the alternative would be getting 6 type 052D but scaled down to lower costs:
something like the following
https://defpost.com/general-dynamic...s-guided-missile-frigates-navys-ffgx-program/

btw, how much does it cost to build and equip one type 052D

another help would be developing a mast similar to the ceafar mast the Australians are making, and put in on the F-22P frigates Pakistan operates (http://www.janes.com/images/assets/906/43906/p1531411.jpg)

swapping out the current SAM Missiles with something like the Planned Turkish Naval Air Defense missiles would add some serious air defense capabilities.

these are the changes that would move the PN to that of a formidable littoral navy with limited blue water abilities per operational requirements.

 

[帅的一匹]

Hi,

It is not a matter of " we owe "---it is a matter of being one.

absolutely there is free meal all over the world---israel - US---Britain - US---So Korea - US---Japan - US - Germany to US.

All these relationships are build on 'free meal'---because the US knows that it cannot do it all alone---it needs to carry the smaller nations along---the smaller nations indulge in whatever they can---but the US carries the load---.

And it is not a matter of taking on India alone---because there are other fronts that can be opened up against china by 'other' countries---.

Yes, I agree with you.

China at the same time, has tried the best to support Pakistan as well.

One should understand: one bird at hand is better than two birds at forest.

 

[FuturePAF]

Yes, I agree with you.

China at the same time, has tried the best to support Pakistan as well.

One should understand: one bird at hand is better than two birds at forest.

As a gift, we would gladly accept it. Especially from a true friend. If something is going to be purposely built, we would hope it would be tailored to the operational needs of the PN, but if given as a gift as is, the PN would joyfully accept.

 

[MastanKhan]

Yes, I agree with you.

China at the same time, has tried the best to support Pakistan as well.

One should understand: one bird at hand is better than two birds at forest.

Hi,

The thing is that China cannot allow any weakness in its flank---which is pakistan---. If the flank is strong---the front will hold good---.

Both the countries have stepped out of their way in their own manner to strengthen each others resolve.

Next 5 years time period would be very interesting.

 

[Rashid Mahmood]

No thanks. We are only interested in tiny winy coastal defense ships which we love to call WARships.

So your a naval warfare expert ?

 

[帅的一匹]

So your a naval warfare expert ?

I think he is being sarcastic

 

[Tank131]

Again, the question of 052D or frankly any other large destroyer is out of the question for now. Frankly Pakistan has no need for such a large vessel nor the financial capacity to field it in any reasonable numbers. The focus should be on large frigates of ~4000t range, but also on finding the right weapons and sensors. There are a multitude of platforms available from China and Turkey so that is less the concern. The proposed 4000t frigate (aka 057) seemedbto be the ideal frigate for Pakistan given its expansive size and 32-48 vls cells. It was on artist renditions and models, equiped with 8 AShM and a 21 cell FL-3000N system as well as 2 CIWS. It is large enough to have equipped the HHQ-9 and had PN been able to find a quad packed missile you could have had 16 HQ-9 and 64-128 medium ranged missiles making it one of the best frigates in the Indian ocean certainly with more defenseive capacity than any IN ship.

 

[帅的一匹]

052E

That's what PN shall plan for inthe future.

And it shall carry Z20 navy version with it.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Well would be great to be considered for a option for big Chinese defence ship

 

[Aamir Hussain]

I believe the Type 54A that we are getting can also support Z 20 when it becomes available.

 

[MastanKhan]

The Type 052D and Type 55 Destroyers are Blue Water ships build around the doctrine of the PLA-Navy. The Pakistani Navy's Warfighting strategy is different. It is more Littoral and focused on managing and defending small naval squadrons with massive amounts of firepower (i.e. missile boats and submarines).

Missile boats and submarines are being acquired, but ships to organize them and defend them are what we need.
what would be more focued on the Pakistani needs would be the following (but made to be as silent to submarine threats as the type 26 Royal navy frigate is planned to be)

6 Type 054B (http://mil.news.sina.com.cn/2013-08-22/0902736685.html) but equipeed with a mix of HQ-16 and HQ-9s

the alternative would be getting 6 type 052D but scaled down to lower costs:
something like the following
https://defpost.com/general-dynamic...s-guided-missile-frigates-navys-ffgx-program/

btw, how much does it cost to build and equip one type 052D

another help would be developing a mast similar to the ceafar mast the Australians are making, and put in on the F-22P frigates Pakistan operates (http://www.janes.com/images/assets/906/43906/p1531411.jpg)

swapping out the current SAM Missiles with something like the Planned Turkish Naval Air Defense missiles would add some serious air defense capabilities.

these are the changes that would move the PN to that of a formidable littoral navy with limited blue water abilities per operational requirements.

Hi,

Did Ghazi not die on the other side of India---. We are only limited by our options---. If we have ships---we will become a blue water navy---that is the only difference between the haves and have nots---.

Same is the case with our doctrine---. If our ships can sail the blue waters with a show of strength---our doctrine would change---.

 

[rcrmj]

052E
View attachment 460860 View attachment 460861 View attachment 460862

That's what PN shall plan for inthe future.

And it shall carry Z20 navy version with it.

no it is not 052E````

 

[帅的一匹]

no it is not 052E````

Please shed some light