052D可能最终停留在21艘

[Maarkhoor]

In 60s, we sent J-5, and 59 tanks.

For which war?

 

[yjdlbcj]

This picture is all the reserve tents sent by the Wenchuan earthquake and the Pakistan brothers. Because of the lack of transport, only to be able to sit on the ground. This is a real friend. It is also the only strategic ally recognized by the Chinese people.

For which war?

the war between India and Pakistan

 

[Maarkhoor]

This picture is all the reserve tents sent by the Wenchuan earthquake and the Pakistan brothers. Because of the lack of transport, only to be able to sit on the ground. This is a real friend. It is also the only strategic ally recognized by the Chinese people.


the war between India and Pakistan

Brother there is no war happen in 1960, it happened 1965, 1971 and Kargil as far as I know China refuses to took part militarily and for equipment and supplies I can't say anything. Even during Kargil China refuses to help us diplomatically.

 

[Moon]

For which war?

I think he's talking about the F-6 in 1965.

 

[yjdlbcj]

Brother there is no war happen in 1960, it happened 1965, 1971 and Kargil as far as I know China refuses to took part militarily and for equipment and supplies I can't say anything. Even during Kargil China refuses to help us diplomatically.

In 1971, our country experienced 10 years of Cultural Revolution. At that time, China was on the brink of collapse.

 

[Kompromat]

Im talk about deterrence my friend

China has / have a policy not to get engage in others war. So expect no help in case of war other than equipment and supplies.

 

[YeBeWarned]

Speaking with complete neutrality and objectivity, what would you do with them, that you cannot do with AIP-equipped diesel submarines, shore-based anti-shipping missiles, and shore-based maritime surveillance and attack aircraft? Just think of the huge difference in costs. If you like to hear engines, push in missile-carrying corvettes. This combination will give you complete cover for all shipping lanes coming to your ports, and also cover a large part of your fishing zone.

well, these Type 52D can be our flag ships leading the group of F-22, Milgem , and FAC ..we needs Ships with AESA long range radar , along with heavy AD protection against Ariel Threats ..
no ship in PN arsenal is capable enough to deal with AD effectively .
Submarines play a vital but different role here .

Any attempt to blockade your coastline will be looked at with complete disapproval by the littoral states and by Iran, whose territorial waters jut out far enough to make any enveloping blockade impossible, and to enable shipping to sail through other territorial waters and make a small course correction once within the protective cover of this curtain of submarine defences, small ship patrols and missile cover from land and air.

I agree but I doubt PN will be relying on its FAC fleet to stop or withstand any possible blockade . that is where our AIP subs comes in , and with Harba in Operations a Cruise/Anti Ship missile of 400 km range wont let any Ship move around freely .

 

[Joe Shearer]

This is my last post on this particular subject, as it should not seem as if there is an intrusion with mischief in mind.

well, these Type 52D can be our flag ships leading the group of F-22, Milgem , and FAC ..we needs Ships with AESA long range radar , along with heavy AD protection against Ariel Threats ..
no ship in PN arsenal is capable enough to deal with AD effectively .
Submarines play a vital but different role here .

NO ships, or small fleets, can stand against aerial attack, particularly against cruise missiles or guided missiles, unless supported by shore-based installations; both air cover and quick-response medium- or long-range missile batteries supported by those AESA radar installations that you mentioned. As you will readily appreciate, it is much easier to mount these radar 'chains' (there needs to be a networked system for any genuine prevention to work) on land than on expensive floating real estate. Further, the only answer to air attack is to have air capabilities of one's own.

That is why I have suggested to those interested that corvette-level vessels suitably armed are a hugely more cost-effective response to the threats in question than equally vulnerable, not necessarily hugely more secure destroyers or frigates.

A minor point: since no high-speed fleet manoeuvres are likely to happen (in other words, no carrier task forces), destroyers are massive over-kill, when even frigates are unlikely to be a frugal answer.

However, he who pays the piper calls the tune.

I agree but I doubt PN will be relying on its FAC fleet to stop or withstand any possible blockade . that is where our AIP subs comes in , and with Harba in Operations a Cruise/Anti Ship missile of 400 km range wont let any Ship move around freely .

Well, then, there you are, precisely my recipe, but adding corvettes/missile boats to the mix will extend your safety zone by at least 400 kms. And adding dedicated maritime surveillance aircraft will simultaneously address your requirements of surveillance, anti-submarine warfare, anti-surface ship warfare; in another role, such aircraft or dedicated aircraft positioned for air superiority will shield your surface vessels.

Ah well, gorib'er kotha keu shonay na.

 

[GriffinsRule]

I think he's talking about the F-6 in 1965.

Chinese aircraft and weapons came after the war was over, not during. It was mainly to replace what PAF lost and to counter the US embargo on spares and arms. They never actually helped during the hostilities and neither should we expect them to do so in the future.

 

[Moon]

Chinese aircraft and weapons came after the war was over, not during. It was mainly to replace what PAF lost and to counter the US embargo on spares and arms. They never actually helped during the hostilities and neither should we expect them to do so in the future.

I forgot thy came in Decemberof 65, thanks for correcting me.
As for the help during war, I agree and believe me I'm a staunch supporter of Pakistan fighting it's own wars, if the Chinese want to help out, great, but our primary focus should be building up an army, to fight on it's own.

 

[Tank131]

My goodness, could people please get some semblance of reality... @Zarvan again talking about 20 frigates and how China should spend $3billion per year on PN...please man look at the reality. Your navy has 4 real frigates which are woefully poor with air defense, and 5 obsolete clunkers. You are still ironing out the purchase of 4 corvettes (which we all hope will be I-class to help bolster the gap in AD but will likely be ADA because of $$$). You are only buying one AD Frigate on 054A because of $$$ and you want 20 frigates. And on top of that, CHINA will pay for them? Their is no free lunch my friend, and just giving them access to routes through Pakistan in CPEC wont change that. Will it be a boon for Pakistan, hopefully, but that is a debt Pakistan will pay back one way or another...likely by selling China enterprises or institutions that are vital for running infrastucture, so Pakistanis will be paying Chinese companies for their utilities rather than Pakistani ones because they were sold to pay off debt...like the $30-45 billion you think they should spend on your navy...get real man.

 

[Muhammad Omar]

If we get this ship with type 54 frigates and Submarines it's gonna increase the capabilities of PN like boooom

 

[SQ8]

Little boats with a big punch are actually more suitable for Pakistan's naval objectives than large tin cans that massage a national ego.

Being a Navy child.. I have too many relatives in the PN and know the insides of most of the current ships and the quality of their chefs.
But, besides the charm of a big ship- there are considertions besides all out war that dictate larger vessels

Blue water capability allows for the anti-piracy operations and keeping the SLOC open both in peace and in war that is a role many proponents of the “insurgent” navy ignore. While maritime security agencies such as the coast guard and PMSA could be equipped with ships to guarantee peacetime support against pirates and other sea borne threats.. they are ill equipped to provide assistance in case of a larger conflict.
Something the Navy experienced in 71 much to its chagrin. The Osas would not have had a free hand had there been more capital ships capable of blocking out at ranges(although the singular nature of Karachi also contributed to that).

 

[Joe Shearer]

Being a Navy child.. I have too many relatives in the PN and know the insides of most of the current ships and the quality of their chefs.
But, besides the charm of a big ship- there are considertions besides all out war that dictate larger vessels

Blue water capability allows for the anti-piracy operations and keeping the SLOC open both in peace and in war that is a role many proponents of the “insurgent” navy ignore. While maritime security agencies such as the coast guard and PMSA could be equipped with ships to guarantee peacetime support against pirates and other sea borne threats.. they are ill equipped to provide assistance in case of a larger conflict.
Something the Navy experienced in 71 much to its chagrin. The Osas would not have had a free hand had there been more capital ships capable of blocking out at ranges(although the singular nature of Karachi also contributed to that).

Good Grief! You are the close-mouthed one!That's about the personal glimpse.

About your essential point on the need for a blue water navy, I believe that this will become increasingly attenuated by increasing domination of nearby waters by air and by missile, not to mention better methods of surveillance.

At the moment, your point has to be conceded.

If we get this ship with type 54 frigates and Submarines it's gonna increase the capabilities of PN like boooom

After invading southern Greece and receiving the submission of other key city-states, he turned his attention to Sparta and asked menacingly whether he should come as friend or foe; the reply was "Neither."

Losing patience, he sent the message:
You are advised to submit without further delay, for if I bring my army into your land, I will destroy your farms, slay your people, and raze your city.
The Spartan ephors again replied with a single word:

If.

 

[tarrar]

PN needs warships & cruisers to strengthen the navy.