India's AMCA 5th Gen Stealth Fighter Project could be completed in 2019

We recently contacted our source in HAL who is working with AMCA project, and we asked him about the comments made by ADA Chief recently about the timeline. He said that 2025 is the timeline given which is correct but what our “so-called’ journalists forgot to mention was that 2025 was not initial year but actually was the deadline given by MoD to ADA to make AMCA operational within the force. Though he said that AMCA’s Naval variant won’t come before 2025 (prototype). But the main AMCA variant which is meant for Air-Force is definitely coming in 2019 as a prototype for it’s first flight.

ADA modified the designs of AMCA which is the final design stage.

Now ADA-HAL is making 1:1 Model of AMCA for various tests related to stealthiness which would happen before the end of this year. This test will be the final procedure of AMCA before building it’s prototype which would start from 2018.

We also tried to get status of all component’s development and we succeeded. Here’s the update of AMCA’s component’s current status:

No.~ Item ~ Status~ Since~ ETA
1~ Design ~ Done~ 2008 ~ ~2017
2 ~Stealth ~ Done~ 2010 ~ ~ 2017
3 ~Composites ~Ongoing~ 2010 ~2017
4 ~Control ~Ongoing~ 2015 ~2018
5 ~Engine ~Ongoing~ 2017 ~2020
6 ~Avionics ~Ongoing~ 2013 ~2018
7 ~Equipment ~Ongoing~ 2013 ~2018
8 ~Radar ~Ongoing~ 2015 ~2019+
9 ~Sensors ~Ongoing~ 2015 ~2018
10 ~Cockpit ~Ongoing~ 2013-14 ~2018
11 ~EW & EC ~Ongoing~ 2013-14 ~2018

http://www.defencenews.in/article/I...ter-Project-could-be-completed-in-2019-250646

Jesus, HAL has so much god damn things in it's plate it's not even funny. India NEEDs a HAL competitor or two, it's ridiculous.

Engine?We yet to decide what engine will be using,still Half is boasting about 2019.

India should have two parallel lines. One concentrating on FGFA, HAL. The other should eventually concentrate on AMCA down the line, private sector assembler.

Going by HAL's trend, No Chance mate.

The_Sidewinder said:

Going by HAL's trend, No Chance mate.

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It's hilarious how they think it's good idea. So, they want to put all this into one basket.

HAL control the production and support of both programs. Why?

Let there be two different production agencies for two separate programs.

Water Car Engineer said:

It's hilarious how they think it's good idea. So, they want to put all this into one basket.

HAL control the production and support of both programs. Why?

Let there be two different production agencies for two separate programs.

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Unlike the LCA Program HAL will not be manufacturing AMCA as a whole but will be the lead integrator of modules manufactured by the Pvt Players. However, I agree that there should be an alternate to HAL.

AMCA said:

Unlike the LCA Program HAL will not be manufacturing AMCA as a whole but will be the lead integrator of modules manufactured by the Pvt Players. However, I agree that there should be an alternate to HAL.

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LCA is going that route as well. L&T, VEM Tech, Alpha are producing LCA main modules now.

Not the point, India needs another completely different competitor, production agency. I know HAL shits bricks at the thought of TATAs, Mahindras, Reliances getting that big, but it's for the greater good of India and the users that matter, not HAL.

There is no reason to have them producing, testing, supporting two separate 5th generation birds.

Water Car Engineer said:

It's hilarious how they think it's good idea. So, they want to put all this into one basket.

HAL control the production and support of both programs. Why?

Let there be two different production agencies for two separate programs.

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Why what makes you think two agencies is better? I, unfortunately, deal with this kind of bureaucratic BS everyday. The worst part is, I don't even work for or with the government. Just a private company with too many departments and directors.

I'm not sure what experience you have in this department, but all setups comes with its problems. It just depends on how the program is being ran, and has pretty much nothing do to with public or private or one or ten agencies.

Try getting consent from two directors that hate each other, and worse, if you don't include someone who feels they have a role in the project, even though it would impact them in no logical way.

Genesis said:

Why what makes you think two agencies is better? I, unfortunately, deal with this kind of bureaucratic BS everyday. The worst part is, I don't even work for or with the government. Just a private company with too many departments and directors.

I'm not sure what experience you have in this department, but all setups comes with its problems. It just depends on how the program is being ran, and has pretty much nothing do to with public or private or one or ten agencies.

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For India's case, it needs to be done. They have themselves missed deadlines for the Tejas production several times over, which they made up themselves. Do I want them to do that handling both FGFA, AMCA at the same time? No.

As far as the private sector are concerned, they have actually prototyped and trialed programs like the Kestrel APC and ATAGs ahead of schedule, mind you they've only started in this sector. Other DPSUs are all known for tardiness. Much less complex, but if the TATAs want to assemble, test airbus C295s, and build a private sector assembly line which will be make a single engined fighter design - If Reliance is producing a whole aerospace park, producing Antonov transports, etc - If Mahindra and TATAs want to assembly, test Bell, Airbus helicopters, why not leverage all this for a domestic R&D program under the private sector?

Water Car Engineer said:

For India's case, it needs to be done. They have themselves missed deadlines for the Tejas production several times over, which they made up themselves. Do I want them to do that handling both FGFA, AMCA at the same time? No.

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Fighter production is difficult, this has been the case across the world. F-35 anybody? LM's capabilities is well known, also they have experience in F-22, and yet here we are.

As far as the private sector are concerned, they have actually prototyped and trialed programs like the Kestrel APC and ATAGs ahead of schedule. Which other DPSU wouldn't have done. Much less complex, but if the TATAs want to assemble, test airbus C295s, and private sector assembly line will be made also the a single engined design. If Reliance a whole aerospace park, produce Antonov transports, etc. If Mahindra and TATAs want to assembly, test Bell, Airbus helicopters, why not leverage all this for a domestic R&D program under the private sector?

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Well, those projects were handled well then. Indian members likes to talk ISRO, that is 100% government agency, and yet it seems to be doing well. I don't have to tell you not all private enterprise do well.

You also need to remember personal interests, and ego. This agency India has must have a ton of pull to be able to pull this off. One also need to remember India doesn't have a tradition of fighter designs, which means any top guys would need to be lured from this exact agency. They can make every step of the way very painful, in a very difficult process already.

Basically, it's never as easy as it sounds. The one thing I learnt from these few years out of school is if something is one way and it's obvious how to make it better, it's that way for a reason. Don't think you are smarter, someone has tried and has failed to change.

Genesis said:

Well, those projects were handled well then. Indian members likes to talk ISRO, that is 100% government agency, and yet it seems to be doing well. I don't have to tell you not all private enterprise do well.

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Well, the defence production agencies are different, they've actually lived off of assembly contracts since independence. They just wait around with no competition and get orders. The MoD since independence havent cared.

If ISRO had the same options of importing, same corrupt users, ISRO wouldnt be ISRO. Dont have to deal with any corrupt users, they themselves are the users. And actually want to continuously improve on their designs.

OFB can just sit, wait for t55 contract, do nothing with it, sit wait for t72 contract, do nothing with it, sit wait for t90 contract. Doesnt really matter if they meet their production goal, or have good quality, because they're the only ones doing.


If you want to see what sitting, waiting around for the next contract looks like, look at the same effect with Hindustan Motors production line in the 2014.




Hindustan Motors 2014 -






Versus what the private sector has done since they had a fair shot into the auto industry.

Same needs to happen in the defence sector. Competition between different agencies will produce the better product for the users.


Now I think HAL is much better than HM, but it can be even better faced with competition, I think.

They dont need to have this much work share. If they screw up FGFA and AMCA production, it's the users that suffer. Let them concentrate on one.

Genesis said:

Indian members likes to talk ISRO, that is 100% government agency, and yet it seems to be doing well.

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ISRO is a small agency with a clear mandate. It works well because of those reasons just like our Election Commission can conducted fair and corruption-free elections due to it's small size and defined mandate. HAL and other failed Indian government agencies are excessively large with multiple, unclear mandates. You can't compare the two.

Genesis said:

Why what makes you think two agencies is better? I, unfortunately, deal with this kind of bureaucratic BS everyday. The worst part is, I don't even work for or with the government. Just a private company with too many departments and directors.

I'm not sure what experience you have in this department, but all setups comes with its problems. It just depends on how the program is being ran, and has pretty much nothing do to with public or private or one or ten agencies.

Try getting consent from two directors that hate each other, and worse, if you don't include someone who feels they have a role in the project, even though it would impact them in no logical way.

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Sounds a bit like my office, can take a leaf out of this one! i totally agree!

The one said:

bakvas, only design in final stage not even complete, engine, aviation, radar, stealth coting are long way to go

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This is the typical attitude of our defense programme,there is no wonder in pak members troll on us,we deserve those things.