The Ababeel missile is basically Pakistan's new SLV

With the new added third stage. We can now all be confident that the Ababeel missile is the basic configuration for Pakistan's SLV. It can probably lift a payload of around 150 - 250 kg (maybe 290?) into LEO covering about 250 - 500 Km. A small hydrazine fueled fourth stage could be added like China's KZ-1.

Personally I'm a little disappointed they couldn't acquire the technology for a larger diameter motor, of maybe 1.70 m, but beggars can't be choosers.

I expect a full SLV test will be conducted with a dummy satellite within the next year. What are the implications for Pakistan?

Karl said:

With the new added third stage. We can now all be confident that the Ababeel missile is the basic configuration for Pakistan's SLV. It can probably lift a payload of around 150 - 250 kg (maybe 290?) into LEO covering about 250 - 500 Km. A small hydrazine fueled fourth stage could be added like China's KZ-1.

Personally I'm a little disappointed they couldn't acquire the technology for a larger diameter motor, of maybe 1.70 m, but beggars can't be choosers.

I expect a full SLV test will be conducted with a dummy satellite within the next year. What are the implications for Pakistan?View attachment 371633

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While the system can be modified to insert ~100kg sats in LEO, it is not going to be converted into an SLV.

Solid-fueled BMs can only be make-shift solutions for launching satellites. Pakistan's SLV program will have a different, modular and scalable approach.

The Deterrent said:

While the system can be modified to insert ~100kg sats in LEO, it is not going to be converted into an SLV.

Solid-fueled BMs can only be make-shift solutions for launching satellites. Pakistan's SLV program will have a different, modular and scalable approach.

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@TheDeterrent
Do you really think that? If you look at similar systems around the world, Brazil's VLM Nova, China's KZ-1 and KZ-11 and Israel's Shavit - II they all follow a similar cost sharing/cost effective approach vis-a-vis missiles/SLV. Also the Ababeel should be able to lift more than 100 kg, minimum 150 - 200 kg esp with a liquid upper stage. I agree that a liquid system like India's PSLV or China's Long March lift heavier payloads but I can't see Pakistan embarking on a costly program like that! I guess one option would be something like Argentina's Tronador-II program but that would take many years of development and isn't really modular or scalable.

I guess one option would be to host China's Naga-L rocket. But that's not really an indigenous solution. http://www.b14643.de/Spacerockets_1/China/Naga-L/Description/Frame.htm

Or maybe Turkey's UFS (which looks like Vega???) http://www.b14643.de/Spacerockets_1/Rest_World/UFS/Description/Frame.htm

Karl said:

@TheDeterrent
Do you really think that? If you look at similar systems around the world, Brazil's VLM Nova, China's KZ-1 and KZ-11 and Israel's Shavit - II they all follow a similar cost sharing/cost effective approach vis-a-vis missiles/SLV. Also the Ababeel should be able to lift more than 100 kg, minimum 150 - 200 kg esp with a liquid upper stage. I agree that a liquid system like India's PSLV or China's Long March lift heavier payloads but I can't see Pakistan embarking on a costly program like that! I guess one option would be something like Argentina's Tronador-II program but that would take many years of development and isn't really modular or scalable.

I guess one option would be to host China's Naga-L rocket. But that's not really an indigenous solution. http://www.b14643.de/Spacerockets_1/China/Naga-L/Description/Frame.htm

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I see @The Deterrent's point, but from the context of having to separate Pakistan's space program from its strategic weapons program. The space program is supposed to be benign, one built upon multi-national collaboration, contributing to the public good, private sector engagement and, ideally, commercial activity.

These elements require the space program to be transparent and accessible, which is a huge no-no for the weapons program. If we bind the two, then we'll either have Strategic Plans Divisions officers preventing SUPARCO from doing anything with an outside party, or outsiders wishing to stay away from SUPARCO because it'll help NESCOM et. al, or both.

So yes, this will slow SUPARCO's progress in SLV development, but being slow is better than being cut-off from global space development activities. It might not seem relevant to SLVs, but the purpose of SLVs is to deploy satellites, and collaboration with external parties won't hurt our satellite development.

Besides, an industry compliant SLV solution could also help Pakistan become a commercial agent for satellite launches, which in turn can help SUPARCO et. al to be more self-sustaining.

Bilal Khan (Quwa) said:

I see @The Deterrent's point, but from the context of having to separate Pakistan's space program from its strategic weapons program. The space program is supposed to be benign, one built upon multi-national collaboration, contributing to the public good, private sector engagement and, ideally, commercial activity.

These elements require the space program to be transparent and accessible, which is a huge no-no for the weapons program. If we bind the two, then we'll either have Strategic Plans Divisions officers preventing SUPARCO from doing anything with an outside party, or outsiders wishing to stay away from SUPARCO because it'll help NESCOM et. al, or both.

So yes, this will slow SUPARCO's progress in SLV development, but being slow is better than being cut-off from global space development activities. It might not seem relevant to SLVs, but the purpose of SLVs is to deploy satellites, and collaboration with external parties won't hurt our satellite development.

Besides, an industry compliant SLV solution could also help Pakistan become a commercial agent for satellite launches, which in turn can help SUPARCO et. al to be more self-sustaining.

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Good points. I just can't see where the technology or money to finance this is going to come from? Always expect Pakistan to go for the cheapest/easiest solution. Plus, external parties aren't going to share sensitive technology with Suparco regardless.

Karl said:

Good points. I just can't see where the technology or money to finance this is going to come from? Always expect Pakistan to go for the cheapest/easiest solution. Plus, external parties aren't going to share sensitive technology with Suparco regardless.

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It could be a very long and gradual process.

hmm what is SLV? :S

Yousafzai_M said:

hmm what is SLV? :S

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Satellite Launch Vehicle.

Yousafzai_M said:

hmm what is SLV? :S

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Satellite Launch Vehicle

Zaheer1971 said:

Does this means now we can launch our satellites ourselves without using Russians base.

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No. The weight of the satellite you can deploy in LEO (Low Earth Orbit) using this missile will be limited to few(around 50-100) kgs. To deploy a satellite in GEO (Geostationary Earth Orbit) you'll need much heavier rockets.

So in short, to deploy any meaningful satellites in either orbits you'll probably reply on Chinese rockets in foreseeable future.

The Pakistan military has reportedly conducted the first successful flight test of a new medium range ballistic missile (MRBM), according to the Inter Services Public Relations (ISPR), the media arm of the Pakistan Armed Forces.

The test involved the successful launch of the surface-to-surface MRBM Ababeel, reportedly capable of carrying multiple warheads using Multiple Independent Re-entry Vehicle technology (MIRV). The new missile purportedly has a maximum range of 2,200 kilometers (1,367 miles).


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A third MRBM, the Shaheen-III, a multi-stage fueled ballistic missile with an estimated range of 2,750 kilometers (1,700 miles) is currently still under development by the National Development Complex. It is possible that the Ababeel is a more robust and redesigned variant of the Shaheen-III fitted with an improved terminal guidance system, among other modifications. Indeed, in order to accommodate a MIRV warhead, the Shaheen-III would in all likelihood have undergone a complete redesign.

Based on the press release it is unclear, however, whether Pakistan has mastered MIRV technology given that it merely mentions that the missile is “capable” of being fitted with a MIRV warhead, rather than announcing that it has mastered the technology and developed MIRV payloads.

And while the test will cause alarm in New Delhi, Islamabad will need to further invest in and develop intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance (ISR) capabilities including satellite technology (e.g., by adapting and refining China’s Beidou-II satellite navigation system for Pakistan’s sea- and land-based missile systems) to operationalize ballistic missiles capable of carrying multiple warheads and field a credible MIRV capability.

Nevertheless, the possible introduction of MIRV warheads is a clear sign that the nuclear arms race between India and Pakistan is escalating. The mentioning of MIRV technology in the press release announces a new and more dangerous stage in the nuclear arms competition in South Asia.

http://thediplomat.com/2017/01/paki...apable-of-carrying-multiple-nuclear-warheads/

Karl said:

@TheDeterrent
Do you really think that? If you look at similar systems around the world, Brazil's VLM Nova, China's KZ-1 and KZ-11 and Israel's Shavit - II they all follow a similar cost sharing/cost effective approach vis-a-vis missiles/SLV. Also the Ababeel should be able to lift more than 100 kg, minimum 150 - 200 kg esp with a liquid upper stage. I agree that a liquid system like India's PSLV or China's Long March lift heavier payloads but I can't see Pakistan embarking on a costly program like that! I guess one option would be something like Argentina's Tronador-II program but that would take many years of development and isn't really modular or scalable.

I guess one option would be to host China's Naga-L rocket. But that's not really an indigenous solution. http://www.b14643.de/Spacerockets_1/China/Naga-L/Description/Frame.htm

Or maybe Turkey's UFS (which looks like Vega???) http://www.b14643.de/Spacerockets_1/Rest_World/UFS/Description/Frame.htm

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Yes. You're not getting it. I'm not saying that similar systems do not exist or similar path cannot be followed.
Pakistan has defined a quite elaborate 2050 space vision. If resources permit, within the next few years Pakistan will introduce proper liquid-fueled SLVs for launching our own satellites. Granted it will be a very slow and gradual process, but this will be the new approach.

Turkey is working on a SLV currently, would be excellent opportunity for both countries to co-operate..

aptly named haha.
this kid looks so weak. love the name.

Combat-Master said:

Turkey is working on a SLV currently, would be excellent opportunity for both countries to co-operate..

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beautiful ma sha allah

@Karl

Abbabeel is ballistic missile with MIRV. Period.
Abbabeel is bascially an offensive weapon aiming to neutralize Indian ballistic missile defense system and deliver warheads inside enemy territory with greater probability. Period.

What you are referring to is a potential possible and a probable direction in which such a platform could be reused. Its called "re-purposing" and it is essentially the secondary usage.

Now there is a reason for me to correct you. Any of your illogical assumptions would be picked up by Indian stupid channels and they will present your nonsense as facts. So "basically" it is what it is and it is "basically" and "certainly" not an SLV.