Promoting anti-science via textbooks - by PERVEZ HOODBHOY

Khafee said:

Please provide a link to Ibn Khaldun's statement, to back up your claim.

Thank You

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Ibn Khaldun didn't say any of it.

User said:

Obviously it (rickshaw) was invented by someone who loves torturing others and laughs at their misery. See there is a difference between who created and who invented.

What would happen if Sun comes near Moon and Earth?

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Somebody would be unable to measure peoples private parts, because his own behind would have been vaporized.

maximuswarrior said:

Ibn Khaldun didn't say any of it.

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I know, but pseudo intellectuals, like to rant and show how knowledgeable they are, but end up looking like fools.

Khafee said:

Somebody would be unable to measure peoples private parts, because his own behind would have been vaporized.

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We all know which entity holds the greater gravitational pull .................. now that we have discovered it ....... I don't know what stops me from believing in 75:9 "Al Qayamah".

User said:

We all know which entity holds the greater gravitational pull .................. now that we have discovered it ....... I don't know what stops me from believing in 75:9 "Al Qayamah".

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So what stops you..............?

Khafee said:

So what stops you..............?

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Me not me ............. me in the sense I am human too.

User said:

Me not me ............. me in the sense I am human too.

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Oh sorry. I thought you weren't human.

Khafee said:

Oh sorry. I thought you weren't human.

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If I wasn't I would have ripped the necks of all ignorant Mullahs and infidels here on this thread, and taught all of you a good scientific lesson on how things work in Universe, which would surely had taught your generations that all of you petty humans are nothing ......... nothing ...... not even as big as a particle when it comes to looking at Universe and where you stand in it.

See my intentions that's why I am a human and nothing else....... I don't have that big of heart to forgive and give countless chances.

XenoEnsi-14 said:

Ibn Khaldun disagrees, even he said humans evolved from the apes. I seriously have no sympathy for people who believe in myths. Islam had it's chance and now it's gone. That's why we call it the Darwinian theory of Evolution, not the Khaldunian Theory.

Great minds think alike, and the truth can never be hidden.

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People living in the mountains have strong built. Their stamina is better than people living in plains.

People who live in cold areas have fairer skins and people live in tropics and in plains have darker skins to prevent them exposure to UV as sun shines more in plains and in tropics.

This is not evolution. This is adaptation. Its just like when I move to another country, I adapt to it and not evolve into a white man just because I have moved to a country with white skin majority.

In any case, the peoples of the earth are descendants of the three sons of Noah who spread out after the great storm around the world.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generations_of_Noah

Ibn Khuldun never said it as far as I have read him. I dont claim although I have read all of him.

Islam is a religion for up to the end of this world. Islam message was communicated over generations as our Creator knew we will not understand it if all of it was sent in one book with one Prophet PBUH.

Our Creator first taught us Oneness of His being. The concept of shirk. That was the emphasis in the beginning. Then He taught us not to give in to your desires. The people of Lot and the destruction of cities of Gomorrah and Sodom is an example. At that time it was an extremely advanced society but was destroyed and not a speck of that civilization was left on earth.

The message came in bits and pieces and culminated into one compilation of all that is relevant and necessary in the shape of Quran and the final messenger of Allah who brought it.

Khafee said:

Oh sorry. I thought you weren't human.

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Sometimes he isn't. Horns & wings pop out, and he grows a tail. But that is a rarity, usually during full moon.

Khafee said:

Calm down and stop talking crap.I simply answered a question posted by a member, did I say anything against any sect? If so quote me.

Btw, you are as bad as the mullahs, for the mullahs anyone who does not agree with them is a Kafir, for you anyone who does not agree with your POV is a sunni whahabi mulla etc. Both of you extremists, are fanatics and a bane to society. Time for you take a long hard look in the mirror.

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You are taking things personally. I was speaking generally. The problem is not that Hoodbhoy is Agha Khani. He is a rationalist. I don't like a lot of things he has to say about Pakistan and nationalism but he clearly is right about many things too. Tolerating him shows the beauty of having different and unique views. Bemoaning his sect shows our sectarian nature.

haviZsultan said:

You are taking things personally. I was speaking generally. The problem is not that Hoodbhoy is Agha Khani. He is a rationalist. I don't like a lot of things he has to say about Pakistan and nationalism but he clearly is right about many things too. Tolerating him shows the beauty of having different and unique views. Bemoaning his sect shows our sectarian nature.

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He is not a rationalist, he is an idiot, and a traitor. The sooner people realize this, the better it is.

If Pakistan was not a nuclear state, one can only imagine what India would be up to now, and anyone opposed to Pakistan's nuclear program is a class "A" idiot.

If you want to be his cheerleader, please feel free to do so, but don't tag me, go of on a tangent, and then talk crap.

Khafee said:

He is not a rationalist, he is an idiot, and a traitor. The sooner people realize this, the better it is.

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Who decides if someone is a traitor. A "pure" Wahabi mullah? By this logic anyone can be a traitor. This is part of the problem. We are ourselves declaring someone a traitor based on our own perceptions. I can disagree with Hoodhbhoy but I have never heard from his mouth anything the like of Hussain Haqqani or Asma Jehangir. Even NF Paracha and Marvi Sirmid are more critical of our policy than him.

Though I do agree that critics like Hoodbhoy, Marvi Sirmid, Hussain Haqqani and Asma Jehangir should not be anywhere near the making of Pakistani policy where the need is of sure-footedness rather than doubt and cynicism we have to agree that critics like Hoodbhoy have a very unique role to play in Pakistani society. This role is questioning the policies we have made. If no one will criticize or condemn what is wrong we will be tyrants. We need critics like him so that we don't become like Saudi or Iran. Its merily a matter of freedom, which a state has a responsibility to provide. If we have a counter argument it is similarly our concern to raise it.

If Pakistan was not a nuclear state, one can only imagine what India would be up to now, and anyone opposed to Pakistan's nuclear program is a class "A" idiot.

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I have never stated I never wanted Pakistan not to be a nuclear state. But I am open to criticism and express the right for me or Hoodbhoy to express his views under the umbrella of discussion. There is a logic that claims that rather than having nukes Pakistan and India should have focused on poverty and education-both countries have around 25% population that lives below the poverty line even though our government itself sets the poverty line below international standards. But india got nukes first in 74. So we were forced to have them too. America turned a blind eye to these nuclear tests by India. If they had, or our other allies had played a constructive role neither India or Pakistan would need to have nuclear weapons.

If you want to be his cheerleader, please feel free to do so, but don't tag me, go of on a tangent, and then talk crap.

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This condemnation for me expressing my views is very arrogant of you. You were belittling Hoodbhoy's views for being an Agha Khani. Is that the litmus test for being a Pakistani. The sect a person belongs to? If this is the way then we Pakistanis will be at each others throats for decades. I expected better of you.

Khafee said:

Please provide a link to Ibn Khaldun's statement, to back up your claim.

Thank You

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One should then look at the world of creation. It started out from the minerals and progressed, in an ingenious, gradual manner, to plants and animals. The last stage of minerals is connected with the first stage of plants, such as herbs and seedless plants. The last stage of plants, such as palms and vines, is connected with the first stage of animals, such as snails and shellfish which have only the power of touch. The word "connection" with regard to these created things means that the last stage of each group is fully prepared to become the first stage of the next group.

The animal world then widens, its species become numerous, and, in a gradual process of creation, it finally leads to man, who is able to think and to reflect. The higher stage of man is reached from the world of the monkeys, in which both sagacity and perception are found, but which has not reached the stage of actual reflection and thinking. At this point we come to the first stage of man after (the world of monkeys). This is as far as our (physical) observation extends

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The Muqaddimah: An Introduction to History, Ibn Khaldun, Link 2, Link 3, and Link 4.

An almost identical theory is mentioned earlier in the Encyclopedia of the Brethren of Purity.

airmarshal said:

People living in the mountains have strong built. Their stamina is better than people living in plains.

People who live in cold areas have fairer skins and people live in tropics and in plains have darker skins to prevent them exposure to UV as sun shines more in plains and in tropics.

This is not evolution. This is adaptation. Its just like when I move to another country, I adapt to it and not evolve into a white man just because I have moved to a country with white skin majority.

In any case, the peoples of the earth are descendants of the three sons of Noah who spread out after the great storm around the world.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generations_of_Noah

Ibn Khuldun never said it as far as I have read him. I dont claim although I have read all of him.

Islam is a religion for up to the end of this world. Islam message was communicated over generations as our Creator knew we will not understand it if all of it was sent in one book with one Prophet PBUH.

Our Creator first taught us Oneness of His being. The concept of shirk. That was the emphasis in the beginning. Then He taught us not to give in to your desires. The people of Lot and the destruction of cities of Gomorrah and Sodom is an example. At that time it was an extremely advanced society but was destroyed and not a speck of that civilization was left on earth.

The message came in bits and pieces and culminated into one compilation of all that is relevant and necessary in the shape of Quran and the final messenger of Allah who brought it.

Click to expand...

The Generations of Noah happened after the Great Flood, it does not deny evolution that occurred prior to the Flood and continues today.

The Three sons of Noah are the three main races of the modern era, the Mongoloid, Caucasoid and Congoid. Skin color does not matter.

Evolution takes millions of years, the Sons of Noah took thousands of years. God does not deny Evolution and neither does the Religion. The clues are there for all to see, ignorance never lasts.

Indus Falcon said:

Sometimes he isn't. Horns & wings pop out, and he grows a tail. But that is a rarity, usually during full moon.

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Aaaaa you missed being my guest this last super full moon, such energy, such power ........ I have never felt before, I feel like corrupted ................ when is the next super moon thingy again? @Khafee

User said:

Aaaaa you missed being my guest this last super full moon, such energy, such power ........ I have never felt before, I feel like corrupted ................ when is the next super moon thingy again? @Khafee

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Khafee said:

He is not a rationalist, he is an idiot, and a traitor. The sooner people realize this, the better it is.

If Pakistan was not a nuclear state, one can only imagine what India would be up to now, and anyone opposed to Pakistan's nuclear program is a class "A" idiot.

If you want to be his cheerleader, please feel free to do so, but don't tag me, go of on a tangent, and then talk crap.

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Best not to push Havi, he has been through a lot, and has some serious family problems. You wouldn't want to upset him, just because of an online argument. Ignore him. From what I hear, very decent family background.