We need more J-10Bs

batmannow · Sep 20, 2009

Muradk said:
Relax buddy lets stay on topic.

My point is why are we comparing our selves with India, India is 5 times bigger than us so if we have 1 aircraft they have 5, If we start chasing their numbers we will end up parking planes on the Motor way. That is one of the reason our fighter conversion is so difficult and our CCS is hell PAF from the very start knew that we will always be out numbered so the training should be good so our pilots could take on numbers. And we have seen that twice.
Now we have the technology to counter such threats if challenged our Ground -to-Air capabilities are way beyond theirs.
Second thing if you have not noticed when ever there is a breach of LOC by IAF we don't send 1 type of fighter we send 3 different fighters all together with the Induction of JF-17 now we can send 4 different types of fighters that makes a hell of a difference during a dog fight. Every fighter has its capabilities some are good at low level some at medium and some at high altitudes we find out were the bugger and within sec the pilots will decided which on goes head to head, During CAP something happens and you get entangled with a superior fighter you know his handicap and you bring him to that state where you have an upper hand.

dear sir!
what you say about paf getting J-11bs like 40 or so & could be upgraded with more westrn avionics, along with J10bs LIKE 60 or so , also upgraded with westrn avionics? :azn:

will that all can boost PAF 's power to a level that even IAF , with all its might , could stay out of PAKskies? :undecided:

will it could be the best addition , to the birds wht we still have, i mean (F-16s, JF-THUNDER, mirages, & F7PGS).
WHT YOU THINK , its very crrazy question, but sory i have a crazy mind!

thts why , i hve been kicked out , from ........! :cheers:

Myth_buster_1 · Sep 20, 2009

batmannow said:
dear sir!
what you say about paf getting J-11bs like 40 or so & could be upgraded with more westrn avionics, along with J10bs LIKE 60 or so , also upgraded with westrn avionics?
will that all can boost PAF 's power to a level that even IAF , with all its might , could stay out of PAKskies?
will it could be the best addition , to the birds wht we still have, i mean (F-16s, JF-THUNDER, mirages, & F7PGS).
WHT YOU THINK , its very crrazy question, but sory i have a crazy mind!
thts why , i hve been kicked out , from ........!

So you want to induct 3 type of AC from same origin? Why have we developed a policy of "buy everything made in china" or "Chinese equipments are the best bang for the buck"? Unless PAF has another western AC in their mind other then F-16, FC-20 will fill its role quite well..... but if we throw all the work load of 4.5 generation MRCA on just FC-20 then i think this acquisition is doomed! (our number one priority is to country IAF)
We need to have somthing like a star fighter which will give IAF heart attack when they think about it... lets say if IAF opts for SH which is very likely then PAF has to opt at least a squadron of Rafeal to at least gain a technical edge.... PAF needs at least 4 different type of MRCAs...
4th generation= JF-17 and F-16
4.5 Gen= FC-20 and (****?)

batmannow · Sep 20, 2009

Growler said:
So you want to induct 3 type of AC from same origin? Why have we developed a policy of "buy everything made in china" or "Chinese equipments are the best bang for the buck"? Unless PAF has another western AC in their mind other then F-16, FC-20 will fill its role quite well..... but if we throw all the work load of 4.5 generation MRCA on just FC-20 then i think this acquisition is doomed! (our number one priority is to country IAF)
We need to have somthing like a star fighter which will give IAF heart attack when they think about it... lets say if IAF opts for SH which is very likely then PAF has to opt at least a squadron of Rafeal to at least gain a technical edge.... PAF needs at least 4 different type of MRCAs...
4th generation= JF-17 and F-16
4.5 Gen= FC-20 and (****?)

dear friend,
plz comeout of dreams,, musharaf era has gone , we will not get a SINGAL tyre of "Rafeal ", no 2.. its too expensive, no3 thier no guranties that, all the spares of that bird could be availible during any out break of war with india.

but if we can ,, get J-11b & j-10s... fix them westrn avionics , they can serve in paf for long time to come , J-11b can give paf extra radius..... also its has good radars , well J-10s can take up , the striking role alll this will be very suitable for the rest of the birds...i guss its the mid trem solution. which can paf get!
with china,, i can gurnteee you that , they will never stop anything which we need from them at any time? :azn:

dear , i just wanit to have a oppinion from mr,, muradk...well thanks for your contributions...!
thanks a lot dear friend.

Muradk · Sep 20, 2009

Yar we will go for J-10 first and then if we like what we see we will go for more numbers, J10-B would make a perfect unit for OCU. I wish PAF gets J-11 but its hard for us India will not let that happen and dealing with Russia is worse than Uncle Sam. If they give us TOT than its worth it otherwise we will be in for a surprise.
China you will be amazed how many fighters they have given us for free with spares and more, Plus the best thing about the china tech is we can easily change it to western tech.
If we get 3 SQD of J-11 one for Karachi/Navel support one in Sargodha one in Peshawar we will be covered evenly.

batmannow · Sep 20, 2009

Muradk said:
Yar we will go for J-10 first and then if we like what we see we will go for more numbers, J10-B would make a perfect unit for OCU. I wish PAF gets J-11 but its hard for us India will not let that happen and dealing with Russia is worse than Uncle Sam. If they give us TOT than its worth it otherwise we will be in for a surprise.
China you will be amazed how many fighters they have given us for free with spares and more, Plus the best thing about the china tech is we can easily change it to western tech.
If we get 3 SQD of J-11 one for Karachi/Navel support one in Sargodha one in Peshawar we will be covered evenly.

THTS WHT i call ,,perfect understanding!
my dear skipper! :smitten:

with this mid-trem solution we,, stand a chance to play with our mighty enemy!

Myth_buster_1 · Sep 20, 2009

Muradk said:
Yar we will go for J-10 first and then if we like what we see we will go for more numbers, J10-B would make a perfect unit for OCU. I wish PAF gets J-11 but its hard for us India will not let that happen and dealing with Russia is worse than Uncle Sam. If they give us TOT than its worth it otherwise we will be in for a surprise.
China you will be amazed how many fighters they have given us for free with spares and more, Plus the best thing about the china tech is we can easily change it to western tech.
If we get 3 SQD of J-11 one for Karachi/Navel support one in Sargodha one in Peshawar we will be covered evenly.

Sir dont you think J-11B and J-10B would have been more better for a competition to meet PAF 4.5 generation requirement?
Do you honestly think "technically" FC-20 can hold both SH and MLU MKI on its own? Dont you think about this starfighter type fighter theory for PAF? A high tech squadron that will be able to take on IAF on its own in a skirmish? Imagine the repeat of F-86 - F-104 = F-16 - (possibly Rafael or EF)? wouldnt PAF be better of like that or spend more money on Quantity and achieve little or no Quality edge over IAF?

batmannow · Sep 21, 2009

Growler said:
Sir dont you think J-11B and J-10B would have been more better for a competition to meet PAF 4.5 generation requirement?
Do you honestly think "technically" FC-20 can hold both SH and MLU MKI on its own? Dont you think about this starfighter type fighter theory for PAF? A high tech squadron that will be able to take on IAF on its own in a skirmish? Imagine the repeat of F-86 - F-104 = F-16 - (possibly Rafael or EF)? wouldnt PAF be better of like that or spend more money on Quantity and achieve little or no Quality edge over IAF?

dear freind!
who is going to give, you EF or even RAFAELE?

i guss, as hounrable, MURADK sir explained to us, its far more ezy to equip J-11bs or FC-20s with westrn Avionics then getting EF or RAFAEL!
purchasing westrn avionics, from the black market is posible any time we need, but depending on westrn platforms is not a choice for us, at least for the comming 10 years!
so , wht should we do? :undecided:

wait 10 more years , so that our enemy gets far more hi-tech birds?
& keep asking west to plz give us used & de-equiped garbage, in the name of 5. gen bird? :cheesy:

as hourble, SKIPPER already described, us that its far more ezy for us , to work on a chinese PLF, & upgrade it, to the level, where it can surprize, even a MKI, surly it will going to take him down , with surprize!
remember, last lock on by PAF over LAHORE to a iaf m2000 last year!
that was amazing?
i guss, you can ask SKIPPER , wht kind of upgrads & avionics are needed, to make an J-11b or J-10b to become a nightmare for a IAF MKI!

dear friend, i think u are a great asset , to this fourm but plz keep ur thinking , in the frames of posibilities.
no hard feelings, bro! :smitten:

Myth_buster_1 · Sep 21, 2009

batmannow said:
who is going to give, you EF or even RAFAELE?

Like i said before.. Pakistan is dealing with even more sensitive high technology like the Type-214 so i dont know why we react so pessimistically to such news.

i guss, as hounrable, MURADK sir explained to us, its far more ezy to equip J-11bs or FC-20s with westrn Avionics then getting EF or RAFAEL!

But i thought west does not give us anything but 3rd grade outdated stuff so why should west give us all the 4.5 generation goodies for J-11B and FC-20?

purchasing westrn avionics, from the black market is posible any time we need, but depending on westrn platforms is not a choice for us, at least for the comming 10 years!

Oh come on now... western black market? producing high tech systems for 4.5 generation air crafts? :cry:

so , wht should we do?

Quality over quantity..

& keep asking west to plz give us used & de-equiped garbage, in the name of 5. gen bird?

as hourble, SKIPPER already described, us that its far more ezy for us , to work on a chinese PLF, & upgrade it, to the level, where it can surprize, even a MKI, surly it will going to take him down , with surprize!

What surprise? Only FC-20 and J-11B is going to be on the reciving end of a suprise when by the time they enter in numbers MKI will be already upgraded to almost Su-35BM level... and i am serious... check out their latest development...
Thats why i am trying to say.... PAF needs a really high tech true MKI and SH killer which in conjunction with FC-20 should prove to be hunter killer joint force.

dear friend, i think u are a great asset , to this fourm but plz keep ur thinking , in the frames of posibilities.
no hard feelings, bro!

Every one is entitled to their opinion.
:cheers:

and happy eid.

PakShaheen79 · Sep 21, 2009

Rightly no J-11 is coming till 2019 as per PAF's own plan of modernization and that is quite understandable

Inducting and absorbing systems like

-JF-17
-F-16M + MLU
-AWE&C
-Air Refuel-er
-Spada SAM
-FC-20

There is already too much to take in and master on for PAF. Any thing in 4.5 Gen will come after wards ... But still I support the idea that PAF must build its Hi-Tech portion around FC-20.

warlock21 · Sep 21, 2009

PakShaheen79 said:
Rightly no J-11 is coming till 2019 as per PAF's own plan of modernization and that is quite understandable

Inducting and absorbing systems like

-JF-17
-F-16M + MLU
-AWE&C
-Air Refuel-er
-Spada SAM
-FC-20

There is already too much to take in and master on for PAF. Any thing in 4.5 Gen will come after wards ... But still I support the idea that PAF must build its Hi-Tech portion around FC-20.

I can see MK in u...

PakShaheen79 · Sep 21, 2009

warlock21 said:
I can see MK in u...

Would you elaborate a bit what MK means??

warlock21 · Sep 21, 2009

Mastan Khan

Myth_buster_1 · Sep 21, 2009

PakShaheen79 said:
Rightly no J-11 is coming till 2019 as per PAF's own plan of modernization and that is quite understandable

In fact no J-11 is coming at all.. just a mere discussion on forums.

PakShaheen79 · Sep 21, 2009

warlock21 said:
Mastan Khan

I don't think so... Sir Mastan Khan indeed very respected member of forum but we both do differ in some matters as well

warlock21 · Sep 21, 2009

PakShaheen79 said:
I don't think so... Sir Mastan Khan indeed very respected member of forum but we both do differ in some matters as well

what u said in post quoted by me is same thing wht MK said earlier... may be on some other thread....thts why I said so..

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We need more J-10Bs

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