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  • Really?

    What do you have to say about this:

    And indeed, We have eased the Qur'an in your tongue that they might be reminded. 44:58?


    And you say translation is "hard" and "very difficult"?! While the Koran says understanding was made easy for whatever language intended from Russian to persian to English!

    Really, we complicate God's easy and beautiful religion unnecessarily. We should look at the Koran first before coming into any conclusion.
    I am having this dicussion, because I know you are good guy, in sha Allah. I think I know one, when I see. :)


    Thank you very much. Yes, I just do not go against the Koran, even if it may be very different to everyone's views. I try to uphold Koran to the status it was meant to be.
    If you are not convinced about the translation:

    Trlatin by Pikthall:
    Shall I seek other than Allah for judge, when He it is Who hath revealed unto you (this) Scripture, fully explained? Those unto whom We gave the Scripture (aforetime) know that it is revealed from thy Lord in truth. So be not thou (O Muhammad) of the waverers. -------- "Fully explained"

    Yusuf ali:
    Say: "Shall I seek for judge other than Allah? - when He it is Who hath sent unto you the Book, explained in detail." They know full well, to whom We have given the Book, that it hath been sent down from thy Lord in truth. Never be then of those who doubt. ------- "Explained in detail"

    Mohsin khan:

    "Shall I seek a judge other than Allah while it is He Who has sent down unto you the Book (The Quran), explained in detail." Those unto whom We gave the Scripture know that it is revealed from your Lord in truth. So be not you of those who doubt.
    Well, Saheeh International translation is widely considered to be the closest to Arabic itself. And all trnalstions I quoted is from saheeh international. You can check

    As a Muslim you cannot consider "details are omitted" because Koran says otherwise. By considering that Koran is insufficient, you are denying that Koranic verse.

    That was just one verse. I can bring tens of other verses where God forbids us of seeking ANY other guidance for religion except Koran and also says Koran is easy to understand and fully detailed.
    Listen, NO details are omitted in the Quran. I can also show you verses sayig how to perform prayers, ablution and the amount of charity to give. Its just that people avoid the quran and thinks so.
    Creation of Israel and it's final destruction ont he hand Muslims is one of them. There has been a vast body of knowlesge transmitted to us about his predictions. We don't know which is true which is fabrication. But at least those that are coming true should be taken into account. As well as those that have good chains of narrators and we can trust them.


    Creation of israel is specified in the Koran itself. No need to go to hadiths for that. ^
    As I said, the way you are diverting the topic would be a long debate. Anyway, as you wish. You cannot deny these verses:

    , "Then is it ***other than Allah*** I should seek as judge while it is He who has revealed to you the Book ***explained in detail***?" And those to whom We gave the Scripture know that it is sent down from your Lord in truth, so never be among the doubters. -------- right, "other than Allah?" - so do you seek "hadiths"? And "explained in detail" and you say "details are omitted"?

    This is just the tip of the iceberg. I can bring tens of other verses. But first, I would wait for your reply to this one.
    Quran orders us to follow Sunnah of the prophet:


    Right, so you admit now that Mohammed does not know the future and are diverting the topic.

    The debate with which you diverted would be a long one. Are you sure you want to discuss?
    Quran says that God gave Prophet Joseph the power to interpret dreams with which he knew the future. Not all future, just the dreams. These are exceptional circumstances which God has specified in the Quran himself. Yet, remember, this was not directly a power to know the future but just a means to do so (interpreting dreams).

    As far as the question of Prophet mohammed knowing the future, this is clearly nullified by the Koran itself.
    PART 2:

    Say, "None in the heavens and earth knows the unseen except Allah , and they do not perceive when they will be resurrected."

    Say, "I am not something original among the messengers, nor do I know what will be done with me or with you. I only follow that which is revealed to me, and I am not but a clear warner." ----> This verse VERY clearly says he does not know what will be done with him OR US. Here, there is no question of "Ghaib".

    What is your conclusion? Remember, use reasoning and sound judgment as advised:

    And they will say, "If only we had been listening or reasoning, we would not be among the companions of the Blaze."
    Okay, let us discuss the verse according to you.

    Knower of the unseen, and He does not disclose His unseen to anyone. Except whom He has approved of messengers, and indeed, He sends before each messenger and behind him observers. That he may know that they have conveyed the messages of their Lord; and He has encompassed whatever is with them and has enumerated all things in number. 72:26-28

    At the same time, you **cannot** deny these verses:

    Say, , "I do not tell you that I have the depositories of Allah or that I know the unseen, nor do I tell you that I am an angel. I only follow what is revealed to me." Say, "Is the blind equivalent to the seeing? Then will you not give thought?"
    Let's not get lost in translation. "Mystery" here is a translation of "Ghaib" = "Unseen".

    You are using your subjective interpretation here. The word "mystery" and "unseen" are definitely not the same.

    And even if they were, we have to use **reasoning* to understand the verses. If you believe that "mystery" means "knowing the future", well, then you will be denying the other verses which I quoted? Why do you want to add the word "independent" to the other verses? Who gives you authority to change God's words or derive a meaning out of your own whims?
    The prophet's predictions are coming true right in front or our eye.

    FACT: If you deny mutawaatir knews ---> one might claim "There was no prophet Muhammad at all."
    prove he even existed. How would you prove it?

    Sorry i did not notice this message as you did not used the "reply to conversaitin" feature.

    I would prove it by God's word - Koran? Simple. As a believer in God, I take the Koran as God's word and as he declared: infallible truth. As the Koran says Prophet Mohammed existed, I believe it. Because the Koran says only God knows the future and Prophet mohammed does not, I do not care what hadiths say. I don't even know what "mutawaatir" is nor do I care because I take Koran as God's word and do not intercede his words in any way. Simple. As god says, only the Koran is to be used "to judge between truth and falsehood".

    Which predictions came true? Let us discuss.

    He (alone) knows the Unseen, nor does He make any one acquainted with His Mysteries, except a messenger whom He has chosen: and then He makes a band of watchers march before him and behind him, that He may know that they have (truly) brought and delivered the Messages of their Lord: and He surrounds (all the mysteries) that are with them, and takes account of every single thing.

    Mysteries? What does mystery mean? Mystery here does not mean the future - that is out of question because **other Verses clearly says he does not know future, which I just showed**. Mystery here implies meeting with Angel Gabreil, the miraculous journey which is talked of, and the way God reveals his verses. These are the "mysteries" which God revealed to his messenger.
    "Btw, even Quran talks about a greate mischief banu Israel will make and their subsequent destruction.
    See chapter 17 please."

    Yes, I know that already. The thing to be noted here is that the prophecy is a **conditional** one. Koran implies "IF" the same moral degeneration and corruption occurs in the new State of Israel then God will punish them again as he did 3000 years ago.

    The reason why Israel exists to this day and Arabs have failed in all previous wars is because Israel is a tolerant, progressive society which perserves their values, as opposed to the oppressive Arabs. That kind of degeneration and corruption, if occurs, seem far away now.
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