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Is Lockheed dumping F-16s on India?

F-35 is to costly to maintain Look its LCC I don't except that Europe Leaving F-16 soon


Still it has better prospect than Gripen in India

Due Strategic capital And Politics comes With the Deal which Sweden as Nation Lacks for India its big Game Emails ,Supplies of GE engines ,Drones connected With It

As a Platform F-16 block -70 is Not bad choice to begin With For rest we have Rafale

Norway, Denmark, Holland, UK, Italy, Turkey already committed to F-35, replacing F-16s.
None will remain in service.
Belgium started the tender.
Greece has no money, Portugal trying to sell off theirs.

A few Eastern European states remain,thats it.

Indias deal with US will not depend on a single contract.
 
It's not dumping, it's a slap on face of PAF
 
Is Lockheed dumping F-16s on India?
By Vineet KhareBBC Hindi
  • 20 June 2017
  • From the sectionIndia


Lockheed Martin and India's Tata Group have formalised an agreement to relocate the manufacturing of the most advanced F-16 fighter jets to India.

The effort is aimed at securing a multi-billion dollar deal from Delhi.

The announcement comes days ahead of Indian PM Narendra Modi's visit to Washington for a meeting with President Trump.

But some defence experts are accusing Lockheed of offloading obsolete aircraft on India.

What's in the deal?
India will be able to "produce, operate and export the multi fighter F-16 Block 70 aircraft", a joint release said.

"Contingent upon (the) US and Indian government agreement and approval, F-16 Block 70 aircraft would be produced exclusively in India," said a Lockheed Martin statement to the BBC.

"The F-16 Block 70, the next production version of the aircraft, would be the only F-16 version in production. As such, India would become the future home of F-16 production worldwide."

Many see the arrangement as a boost to Mr Modi's "Make in India" push, although it may take years to bear fruit.

Lockheed and Tata would have to win a formal bidding process to begin co-manufacturing.


Why does India need it?
India needs to replace over 200 aged MiGs that are already pushing the expiry date, experts say.

The Russian-supplied MIGs have faced criticism over the years for alleged malfunctioning and frequent crashes that have killed scores of Indian pilots.

_96565697_7c4e2df5-f69a-4dd6-b380-7d3491f5b5c4.jpg
Image copyrightLOCKHEED WEBSITE
Russians blame the crashes on poor Indian maintenance.

India has been trying to ease its traditional reliance on Russia by diversifying its buying options.
It bought French Rafales off the shelf in 2016 after lengthy and arduous negotiations.

Steeply escalating costs, poor after-sales service and a lack of sophisticated military equipment are the reasons cited by some analysts for the shift away from Russia.

The F-16s are said to be up against competition from Sweden's Saab group and its Gripen jets.

How cutting-edge are F-16s?

F-16s have dominated the global market for years. More than 3,000 of the multi-role aircraft are currently in use by 26 countries.

F-16 production in India will support thousands of jobs in the US, said a joint statement issued from Paris, apparently to counter expected criticism that the deal would fall foul of Mr Trump's "America First" policy.

They were originally conceived in the early 1970s as a "lightweight air-to-air day fighter".

_96565703_brahma.jpg
Image copyrightTWITTER
But some commentators in India are asking if the agreement with the Tatas is an effort by Lockheed to offload old technology in India.

"India a dumping ground for obsolete weapons system?" asked defence expert Brahma Chellaney on Twitter.

"Lockheed Martin signs F-16 deal with Tata. Why Tata? Because they make the noisiest car?"


Defence writer Rahul Bedi agrees with Mr Chellaney.

"F-16s developed in the '70s have already reached the optimum level of modernisation. The US Air Force has phased them out in favour of the much more advanced F-35s," he told the BBC.

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Image copyrightAFP
Image captionRussian-supplied MiGs have faced criticism over the years
In an email reply, Lockheed countered: "The F-16 remains the backbone of the US Air Force's frontline air fleet and the US Air Force plans to operate F-16s, alongside F-35s and other aircraft, for decades into the future.

"The US Air Force recently announced plans to extend the structural service life of up to 841 of its F-16s."

Could there be a roll-out delay?

Another worry is that it could take years for any F-16 to get off the assembly lines in India, assuming Lockheed-Tata win the tender and get on with the job of setting up manufacturing units.

The glacial pace of India's bureaucracy is a major cause for concern, with tenders, trials and manufacturer shortlists before anything can move on the ground.

"I fear it will take nearly a decade before we see the first aircraft. Who will then buy the technically obsolete F-16s?" asked Rahul Bedi.


Are there other risks for India?

Russia has long been considered a close Indian ally. For decades India bought Russian armaments to fulfil its defence needs.

But India's suggested pivot towards the US has come in for sharp criticism by some.

The Lockheed-Tata announcement could be seen through the same prism.

The feeling among the sceptics is that such closeness could cost precious Russian goodwill and Russia could get close to India's arch rival Pakistan, which India blames for fomenting "terror".

"The Russians are not in contention in the single engine aircraft race because they have nothing to offer," says Rahul Bedi.

"India's experience with Russia has been poor. The India deal to purchase aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov was for $960m. It finally agreed to pay $2.3bn due to severe cost escalation.
this is very funny that two rivals are going to use same aircraft in huge number, nice exploitation by USA :D
 
what are the chances of PAF to buy their favorite planes from India. Indeed a great victory for India. Very unfortunate story for PAF..
 
So no F-35's?
Also the concern is rightly placed if they are going to deliver first F-16 in 2025.

More closer to 2030.....Just near when PAF may be retiring it's older F-16s, the IAF will be inducting them.

1) Strategic Partnership policy has already been finalized in 2017

2) Vendors to pick their Indian partners by end of 2017 based on SP policy

3) RFP would be issued in 2018 for 200 Jets

4) Proposals would be submitted by the vendors in 2019

5) Limited trials would be completed in 2020

6) Vendor selection would be done in 2021

7) Negotiations would be completed and contract would be signed in 2022

8) First fighter would be inducted in 2024-25
 
1) Strategic Partnership policy has already been finalized in 2017

2) Vendors to pick their Indian partners by end of 2017 based on SP policy

3) RFP would be issued in 2018 for 200 Jets

4) Proposals would be submitted by the vendors in 2019

5) Limited trials would be completed in 2020

6) Vendor selection would be done in 2021

7) Negotiations would be completed and contract would be signed in 2022

8) First fighter would be inducted in 2024-25

By 2021, there may or may not still exist an F-16 product line.
 
Apples and Oranges, the original project was that of Sabre II for which Grumman was given the work to carry out a feasibility study.
If things were that simple, the SU-30s which India claims to manufacture wouldn't be just some 60% operational due to lack of spares.
Even a blind person will tell you that JF-17 looks nothing close to MiG-21....however checkout the inputs in the so called INDIGENOUS Tejas. :D

http://www.rediff.com/news/2001/jan/13nad.htm


As i said you should just stick to reading fiction....sanwli.

Not a shred of doubt. The F-16 (even the most advanced Block) is a step backward for India. With the acquisitions India had planned this doesn't make much sense. Seems like a dump project by the Americans. The timeframe should be a huge concern here. The Russians, Swedes and others must be pulling their hair after learning about this.

As for those Indians claiming that Pak also operates the F-16, we have operated these machines for decades. If Pakistan sought more F-16s in the past it did so because experience and logistics dictated this. Times have changed now with the induction of the JF-17.

The Pak Air Force will be inducting a 5th gen fighter by the time any of this has materialized. In fact, Pak should already look around and start making arrangements for a potential deal. The FC-31 is the foremost choice at this point and time.
 
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this fighter jet will not use stealth technology.for learning purpose, this is a good choice for Indians.f-16s are very dangerous fighter jets.maintenance is a big issue.world is moving on towards 5th generation fighter jets and paf love for f-16s will be over after this deal finalizes.this deal might have direct impact on Pakistan and we will surely look for a joint fighter 5th generation program with China.missiles use by this new f-16s are incredible and it's a good choice but it will impact Russia India ties as well.there are chances of su-35s coming to Pakistan.this deal will not please Russia.similarly it will impact Pakistan directly.finally an end of f-16 love story for paf.
 
this fighter jet will not use stealth technology.for learning purpose, this is a good choice for Indians.f-16s are very dangerous fighter jets.maintenance is a big issue.world is moving on towards 5th generation fighter jets and paf love for f-16s will be over after this deal finalizes.this deal might have direct impact on Pakistan and we will surely look for a joint fighter 5th generation program with China.missiles use by this new f-16s are incredible and it's a good choice but it will impact Russia India ties as well.there are chances of su-35s coming to Pakistan.this deal will not please Russia.similarly it will impact Pakistan directly.finally an end of f-16 love story for paf.

It will be mighty interesting how the Russians respond to this. The Indians have opted for the F-16 over Su-35 or any other Russian fighter. The Indians have made a tremendous blunder here from a logistical view point. The Americans have sold a dead bird to the Indians.

No doubt about it. The F-16 proponents have been proven dead wrong. The thing everyone feared has happened. The writing was always on the wall.
 
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By 2021, there may or may not still exist an F-16 product line.

There is tremendous pressure on India do away with the tender process and go with LM selection immediately. Even if Modi buckles under pressure and takes this route, The contract cannot be finalized until India signs CISMOA and BECA agreements. So there is bound to be delay either way and LM cannot afford to keep the plant alive with no work.
 
Baba Ji, why not ask IAF about what role the JF-17 is playing with at least one MKI pilot with a particular incident during recent hostilities on LOC. ;)


How nice!!!

So you know of the incident? Well, JF -17 got locked on pretty well out, isn't it? Unfortunately for it, we had a bird up in the air scanning deep into your airspace. Shame! But then it is really a cat and mouse game, one day you get a lock, one day you don't. One day you get locked one day other get's locked ....


Oh wait, is that what you are referring to? Or were you trying to spin it as a reverse?


Well news for you, there was no Su-30 MKI there that day, but an Indian Mig-29UPG which locked it :)

A certain Squadron Leader G ;)

I am sure you can be rest assured that I am quite well aware of your attempt at twisting tales here (if it indeed is the incident that actually took place and you somehow know of it).... :D

@BABA AGHORI

Nod and move on, nod and move on .. .you may soon find entire Su-30 MKI (which incidentally is not even in LC region and indeed the other twin tailed roams there) will be ;);) and :yes4::yes4:

There is tremendous pressure on India do away with the tender process and go with LM selection immediately. Even if Modi buckles under pressure and takes this route, The contract cannot be finalized until India signs CISMOA and BECA agreements. So there is bound to be delay either way and LM cannot afford to keep the plant alive with no work.


Nothing to that effect. Only in PDF there seems to be a 'tremendous pressure on India'! Hilarious to see post after posts on simple posturing. Companies are posturing and such preposterous statements are being made.

Like @randomradio mentioned earlier, SE configuration will be needed to make up for loss of Mig-21s which shall be acting primarily as point defence crafts and will make up the lower end of spectrum for IAF (it may be either LM F-16 or Saab Gripen; the former will be with obvious add on option of F-35, confirmed as such) over the next decade and TE will be coming in terms of Rafale (which will be inducted over a spread out manner as costs continue to remain a constraint due to limited funds and increasing number of platforms requiring an immediate replacement due to delay and tardy execution over past decade of the replacement project) and next generation aircrafts.

A figure of 64 Squadron is a likelihood in terms of fixed wings for IAF over the next 2 to 2.5 decades.

Ok two posts done. Ta folks!
Till next hover.
 
It will be mighty interesting how the Russians respond to this. The Indians have opted for the F-16 over Su-35 or any other Russian fighter. The Indians have made a tremendous blunder here from a logistical view point. The Americans have sold a dead bird to the Indians.

No doubt about it. The F-16 proponents have been proven dead wrong. The thing everyone feared has happened. The writing was always on the wall.
The IAF requirement here was for single engine fighters to replace the ageing Mig-21 fleet, the Russians didn't have anything to offer. The block 70 will be a big step up from the old Migs and are just right for their very specific role.

The SU-30MKI and Rafales (in the near future) will be the IAF's frontline fighters, the Mirage 2K, Mig -29UPG/K, LCA Tejas all have different roles assigned to them.
 
There is tremendous pressure on India do away with the tender process and go with LM selection immediately. Even if Modi buckles under pressure and takes this route, The contract cannot be finalized until India signs CISMOA and BECA agreements. So there is bound to be delay either way and LM cannot afford to keep the plant alive with no work.

The US put pressure on India in the MMRCA project.
They were not even shortlisted.
It is in the US interest to form alliances in Asia to counter China aggression.
That means there are limits to what they can do, when they want India on the team.
 
How nice!!!

So you know of the incident? Well, JF -17 got locked on pretty well out, isn't it? Unfortunately for it, we had a bird up in the air scanning deep into your airspace. Shame! But then it is really a cat and mouse game, one day you get a lock, one day you don't. One day you get locked one day other get's locked ....


Oh wait, is that what you are referring to? Or were you trying to spin it as a reverse?


Well news for you, there was no Su-30 MKI there that day, but an Indian Mig-29UPG which locked it :)

A certain Squadron Leader G ;)

I am sure you can be rest assured that I am quite well aware of your attempt at twisting tales here (if it indeed is the incident that actually took place and you somehow know of it).... :D
Seems you have been given another dose of the Kargil (Non) lock on episode. LoL.
Except no award for the Indian pilot this time. :lol:
Well let me remind you it's not the PAF which goes on national TV to boost about what's ridiculed as cricket score.
The fact that PAF is sending JF-17 to CAP over LOC instead of F-16s and a certain W/C played loud and sustained tone in a MKI pilots headphone should make interesting reading....some day....if ever PAF decides to disclose....which is highly unlikely.
 

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