Shenyang J-15 aircraft carrier-based aircraft

[S10]

There is nothing preventing a CATOBAR-capable fighter from operating on a STOBAR vessel. It doesn't make sense to build an "interim" when they could use the same resources to hasten the development of the J-15A.

The point is there is no rush to push out a J-15 with all shiny gadgets. The important thing is getting the plane into service, which means using existing avionics and radar that are proven reliable. Every new component installed means additional time for system calibration and integration. Time that is better spent developing proper training, maintenance and fleet deployment procedure. That means you need a certain number of J-15 in service within a specific time frame.

It's not about what shiny toys you want. It's about what's practical and least time consuming.

 

[Akasa]

The point is there is no rush to push out a J-15 with all shiny gadgets. The important thing is getting the plane into service, which means using existing avionics and radar that are proven reliable. Every new component installed means additional time for system calibration and integration. Time that is better spent developing proper training, maintenance and fleet deployment procedure. That means you need a certain number of J-15 in service within a specific time frame.

It's not about what shiny toys you want. It's about what's practical and least time consuming.

That was my point - it makes no sense to push out an interim AESA upgrade when they could simply appropriate all the resources towards the J-15A program. It would be like upgrading F-15Es with AESA while testing the F-15SE at the same time.

 

[rcrmj]

The catapult variant was first flight tested in 2016 with a reinforced set of landing gears and possibly an AESA. It's still under testing.

http://www.popsci.com/he-next-generation-chinas-carrier-borne-fighter-flying-shark-takes-to-skies

it tested way before that date``anyway, again, J-15 was designed at day one with CATOBAR in mind, whether it is mounted with AESA or not has nothing to do with where and how it should take-off, as CATOBAR capable ≠ reinforced landing gears, of course it is just one of the things, but much work to be done which is not visible to naked eyes`````

That was my point - it makes no sense to push out an interim AESA upgrade when they could simply appropriate all the resources towards the J-15A program. It would be like upgrading F-15Es with AESA while testing the F-15SE at the same time.

there is a basic logic error in your line of thinking, putting AESA on J-15 is an upgrade which is required by the army, there is no concept called 'interim' or 'thorough' upgrade. Any upgrades cannot be clear cut with A、B、C、D、X、Y、Z etc````it just doesnt work in this way! by your logic even different batches of J-11B have small upgrades from small to big, as the pace of military development evolves very fast, as long as the changes wont cause major difficulties in technology, finance, supply and production, they will do it.

 

[Akasa]

it tested way before that date``anyway, again, J-15 was designed at day one with CATOBAR in mind, whether it is mounted with AESA or not has nothing to do with where and how it should take-off, as CATOBAR capable ≠ reinforced landing gears, of course it is just one of the things, but much work to be done which is not visible to naked eyes`````


there is a basic logic error in your line of thinking, putting AESA on J-15 is an upgrade which is required by the army, there is no concept called 'interim' or 'thorough' upgrade. Any upgrades cannot be clear cut with A、B、C、D、X、Y、Z etc````it just doesnt work in this way! by your logic even different batches of J-11B have small upgrades from small to big, as the pace of military development evolves very fast, as long as the changes wont cause major difficulties in technology, finance, supply and production, they will do it.

There is a clear-cut variant of the J-15: the J-15A (pointed out in the preceding post). Since the J-15A is currently under flight testing already, it makes little sense to develop a third J-15 variant just to bridge the gap

 

[rcrmj]

There is a clear-cut variant of the J-15: the J-15A (pointed out in the preceding post). Since the J-15A is currently under flight testing already, it makes little sense to develop a third J-15 variant just to bridge the gap

what third J-15 you are talking about? how many times I have to repeat that ' 'J-15 was designed at day one with CATOBAR in mind' and it is gong to have AESA on it, and it has jack to do with how it should take off from carrier. how can you not understand this simple logic?

well if your understanding is true, we should have J-15A、B、C、D、E by now``as the very first catapulted J-15 (way before the date you posted) was with a equivalent weight mockup radar, and that should be one version of J-15A lol? and those skijump J-15 should have designations of B、C、D, because as far as I know each patches are different from small to big```and please stop using 'bridging gap' ``` its sounds very amature, because very bit of upgrade is to ensure a fighter platform's effectiveness and technologcial advancement!

 

[Akasa]

what third J-15 you are talking about? how many times I have to repeat that ' 'J-15 was designed at day one with CATOBAR in mind' and it is gong to have AESA on it, and it has jack to do with how it should take off from carrier. how can you not understand this simple logic?

well if your understanding is true, we should have J-15A、B、C、D、E by now``as the very first catapulted J-15 (way before the date you posted) was with a equivalent weight mockup radar, and that should be one version of J-15A lol? and those skijump J-15 should have designations of B、C、D, because as far as I know each patches are different from small to big```and please stop using 'bridging gap' ``` its sounds very amature, because very bit of upgrade is to ensure a fighter platform's effectiveness and technologcial advancement!

As stated many times before, there are multiple variants of the J-15, the two major ones being the baseline J-15 (which cannot be used on a CATOBAR vessel) and a CATOBAR-capable J-15A. If the report is indeed correct and that another AESA-equipped variant is under development, then that would overlap with the J-15A in terms of role & capability.

The Chinese may have had CATOBAR in mind when they first conceived the J-15, but due to engineering and timeline constraints, they were forced to separate the iterations into two main variants. The two are not interchangeable.

 

[Deino]

As stated many times before, there are multiple variants of the J-15, the two major ones being the baseline J-15 (which cannot be used on a CATOBAR vessel) and a CATOBAR-capable J-15A. If the report is indeed correct and that another AESA-equipped variant is under development, then that would overlap with the J-15A in terms of role & capability.

The Chinese may have had CATOBAR in mind when they first conceived the J-15, but due to engineering and timeline constraints, they were forced to separate the iterations into two main variants. The two are not interchangeable.

Why? IMO there is currently only the standard J-15 and the prototype for the catapult, which is not ready for some time due to the testphase. Imo it has either no radar at all or the same as the standard J-15. These new radar reports unrelated to this prototype and it will probably be tested in another prototype when ready.

Only when the new radar and the catapult technology is matured and all tests were done they will be merged in a new serial version J-15A.

 

[Akasa]

Why? IMO there is currently only the standard J-15 and the prototype for the catapult, which is not ready for some time due to the testphase. Imo it has either no radar at all or the same as the standard J-15. These new radar reports unrelated to this prototype and it will probably be tested in another prototype when ready.

Only when the new radar and the catapult technology is matured and all tests were done they will be merged in a new serial version J-15A.

I thought the catapult version was actually a new prototype, not just an one-off airframe. It was rumored to have a fair amount of upgrades including new avionics and engines.

 

[Deino]

I thought the catapult version was actually a new prototype, not just an one-off airframe. It was rumored to have a fair amount of upgrades including new avionics and engines.

New prototyp with structural mods and new engines indeed, but imo nit necessarily an AESA already.

 

[rcrmj]

As stated many times before, there are multiple variants of the J-15, the two major ones being the baseline J-15 (which cannot be used on a CATOBAR vessel) and a CATOBAR-capable J-15A. If the report is indeed correct and that another AESA-equipped variant is under development, then that would overlap with the J-15A in terms of role & capability.

The Chinese may have had CATOBAR in mind when they first conceived the J-15, but due to engineering and timeline constraints, they were forced to separate the iterations into two main variants. The two are not interchangeable.

please stop using your hypothesis to this matter ok? there is no overlap or anything but usual upgrades and testings thats it! when I said it was designed at day one with CATOBAR in mind it doesnt mean they just had the idea of it ok?, it meant its all physically fit for that matter````I believe your knowledge of CATOBAR = enhanced leanding gear thats it isnt it? they are way more than that```

and where do you even come up the idea that they are not 'interchangable'? just because of the enhanced landing gear? or new bits or bots? and besides what does 'interchangable' actually means?``if thats the case I dont think 26 alphabets are enough to lable F-16s during its lifetime, actually the latest F-16 shouldnt be called F-16, as it is not 'interchangable' to the very first F-16s```because it is a universal thing for them to make upgrades and changes in different patches throughout their service lifetime, as long as it wont cause major escalation of money, time and technological difficulties`! if difficulty occurs, then they will start a, as you suggest, 'not overlapping' project for that matter,

so have a deep thinking on the basic facts
1. J-15 was designed at day one with CATOBAR in mind (not an idea, or a wish, or a blue print)
2. they are going to mount AESA on it (and its not overlapping with anything)
3. there are few units of J-15s are under testing
4. almost every batch has upgrades from small to big to its previous batch (and they are not going to using A/B/C for every bit of changes)

to develop a brand new heavy two engines sea born fighter is what called overlapping with the J-15 project! as J-15 cant overlap with itself, it just doesnt make any sense at all

 

[Akasa]

please stop using your hypothesis to this matter ok? there is no overlap or anything but usual upgrades and testings thats it! when I said it was designed at day one with CATOBAR in mind it doesnt mean they just had the idea of it ok?, it meant its all physically fit for that matter````I believe your knowledge of CATOBAR = enhanced leanding gear thats it isnt it? they are way more than that```

and where do you even come up the idea that they are not 'interchangable'? just because of the enhanced landing gear? or new bits or bots? and besides what does 'interchangable' actually means?``if thats the case I dont think 26 alphabets are enough to lable F-16s during its lifetime, actually the latest F-16 shouldnt be called F-16, as it is not 'interchangable' to the very first F-16s```because it is a universal thing for them to make upgrades and changes in different patches throughout their service lifetime, as long as it wont cause major escalation of money, time and technological difficulties`! if difficulty occurs, then they will start a, as you suggest, 'not overlapping' project for that matter,

so have a deep thinking on the basic facts
1. J-15 was designed at day one with CATOBAR in mind (not an idea, or a wish, or a blue print)
2. they are going to mount AESA on it (and its not overlapping with anything)
3. there are few units of J-15s are under testing
4. almost every batch has upgrades from small to big to its previous batch (and they are not going to using A/B/C for every bit of changes)

to develop a brand new heavy two engines sea born fighter is what called overlapping with the J-15 project! as J-15 cant overlap with itself, it just doesnt make any sense at all

Having CATOBAR in mind from the get-go does not mean that the J-15 program wasn't developed in "blocks" or succinct variants. The J-15A (with landing gear suited for CATOBAR) is a different variant owing to the differences in structure & avionics, and the baseline J-15 cannot be launched from a CATOBAR vessel, furthering the difference between the two versions.

 

[Daniel808]

Henri K take on the new J 15 radar .
https://www.eastpendulum.com/j-15-sera-dote-dun-nouveau-radar-aesa


The new J-15 Chinese on - board fighter aircraft will acquire a new active electronic scanning radar (AESA), which suggests an article published by a subsidiary of the AVIC group.

In this text last Sunday on the Weixin of the Institute 607 - one of the three main radar research offices in China and the sole radar entity of the AVIC group - we are talking about a new AESA radar under development Since July 2016, by a young team whose average age is 31 years.


The current J-15 is equipped with a mechanical scanning radar.

Designing an "ultra-thin" and "ultra-light" AESA radar is the goal of the project that can be read between the lines. There is also an AESA radar of all new generation, and the breakthrough in many "revolutionary" technologies, particularly in the architecture of the concerned systems that would be highly integrated.

Although no technical details have been provided, it is virtually certain that this is not yet another active electronic scanning radar that the 607 Institute is developing. It is assumed that it would be at least one AESA radar (DAR: Digital Array Radar), see a Sofatware Defined Radar (SDR).

Compared to standard AESA radars, a DAR allows for a larger receiver field, faster beam scanning and a much better ability to combat jammers and noises. It is also better able to amplify the weak signals and filter the parasitic waves.

DAR technologies do not stem from today, however, theoretical research began elsewhere as early as the 1980s. If CETC Institute 14, another Chinese radar expert, has already succeeded in designing a DAR for the all-new AWACS KJ-500, eventually replacing, the four KJ-2000s based on the IL-76® platform , We have not yet seen the evidence that the Institute 607 has already developed similar radar in the past.

The new Chinese AWACS KJ-500 at the Zhuhai 2016 Fair (Photo: situ)

The fixed DAR radar with 3 flat faces of KJ-500 (Photo: situ)

And we can also understand the importance of this new EASA project for the 607 Institute - the latest (shooting range?) radars chosen by the new Chinese fighter aircraft programs are predominantly designed by the CETC group, and the word " Competition "again appeared in the article of the subsidiary of AVIC. The Chinese navy would therefore most likely have launched a new tender to equip the upgraded version of its J-15 with an AESA radar from an internal competition, to ensure its performance and quality.

Knowing that the AVIC aircraft manufacturer is still developing catapult able CATOBAR variant J-15 , for the 3rd Chinese aircraft carrier by 2022 to 2023, it is therefore estimated that it could have a Intermediate version between the current J-15 and the catapult able J-15, integrate some updated radar and increase the capacity of the embedded naval air forces

To be continued.

Henri K.



Appendix: the original text

青年 | 眼

2017-04-16 研究 部

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

Can new variant of J-15 be created by managing the body to accommodate 3 Awac operators and antenna on the top, some kind of AWAC j-15 so it can be use on Laoning or new 001A carrier...I know it sound crazy but I think it's feasible...imagine an supersonic AWAC, this will scare the sh1t out of enemy

 

[rcrmj]

Having CATOBAR in mind from the get-go does not mean that the J-15 program wasn't developed in "blocks" or succinct variants. The J-15A (with landing gear suited for CATOBAR) is a different variant owing to the differences in structure & avionics, and the baseline J-15 cannot be launched from a CATOBAR vessel, furthering the difference between the two versions.

thats what you guessed, its far from the truth, you still think CATOBAR = enhanced landing gear, or any small changes should be categorized as 'new' version? again! if thats the case 26 alphabets arent enough to lable F-16's blocks during its lifetime, it is a universal thing for them to make upgrades and changes in different patches throughout their service lifetime, as long as it wont cause major escalation of money, time and technological difficulties`! gosh`

the fact is, J-15 is a continuse project, there is no overlap or any kind of your imaginary 'versions' ```as some are under CATOBAR tests, some are tested with other new gadgets (without enhanced landing gear), they are all within the development! unless there is a major structual changes then otherwise.

as far as this matter is concerned, it didnt need major structual changes done on J-15 for CATOBAR tests (if you think an enhanced landing gear is, then so be it), as I reframe this phase again it was designed at day one with CATOBAR in mind, the structure within were all designed and fited for CATOBAR. and you come up with the 'baseline' idea```lol, I know they had catapulted J-15 even before the so called 'baseline' of yours 'offically' entered the serivce few years back, so in this sense which one should be called 'baseline' ``they skijump one or the one with enhanced landing gear? ``in all in, J-15 is CATOBAR capable since day one, and its going to have AESA and there is no such thing called overlap development for this project as far as I know```period !

 

[Akasa]

thats what you guessed, its far from the truth, you still think CATOBAR = enhanced landing gear, or any small changes should be categorized as 'new' version? again! if thats the case 26 alphabets arent enough to lable F-16's blocks during its lifetime, it is a universal thing for them to make upgrades and changes in different patches throughout their service lifetime, as long as it wont cause major escalation of money, time and technological difficulties`! gosh`

the fact is, J-15 is a continuse project, there is no overlap or any kind of your imaginary 'versions' ```as some are under CATOBAR tests, some are tested with other new gadgets (without enhanced landing gear), they are all within the development! unless there is a major structual changes then otherwise.

as far as this matter is concerned, it didnt need major structual changes done on J-15 for CATOBAR tests (if you think an enhanced landing gear is, then so be it), as I reframe this phase again it was designed at day one with CATOBAR in mind, the structure within were all designed and fited for CATOBAR. and you come up with the 'baseline' idea```lol, I know they had catapulted J-15 even before the so called 'baseline' of yours 'offically' entered the serivce few years back, so in this sense which one should be called 'baseline' ``they skijump one or the one with enhanced landing gear? ``in all in, J-15 is CATOBAR capable since day one, and its going to have AESA and there is no such thing called overlap development for this project as far as I know```period !

Let me put it another way:

The current J-15s in service cannot serve aboard the Type 002 (and beyond) carriers, while the CATOBAR prototype can. The J-15s currently in production (and soon the AESA-equipped upgrade) will be limited to STOBAR vessels; namely the 001A and 001.