What's new

Modi trying in Kashmir Israeli-style settlements

Thanks for your post. My response

2) The UNSC Resolutions on Kashmir are neither "Unenforceable" nor "Non-binding" ... :

UN resolutions are not as a rule, binding. Had that been the case they would have been included as a source of international law under Art. 38(1) of the Statute of the ICJ. As it stands Art 38 does not list UN resolutions as source of international law, nor does the charter provide for any such effect for cause of action based on such resolutions.

In short: If resolutions were binding parties would be entitled to initiate legal proceedings for enforcement of such resolutions before the ICJ - which is currently not allowed.

In the absence of binding force the implementation of resolutions depends on willingness of states to cooperate. The only way to 'enforce' a resolution is if the UNSC directs specific countries (say X and Y) formation of a UN military force and instructs such force to enforce its writ - but that would itself be non-binding on those countries (X and Y)

You may want to see the text of the resolution. It is drafted as a recommendation, not an instruction (as was the case with the Korean war). See page 10 of the official document. http://www.un.org/en/ga/search/view_doc.asp?symbol=S/RES/51(1948)

1) Pakistan has NEVER refused to accept the terms of the UNSC Resolutions.

So how come successive Pakistani governments (civilian and military) have taken no steps to comply with the first condition of that resolution - i.e. Condition (A)(1) - withdrawal from J&K of all Pakistani nationals and tribesmen?

The answer is obvious- those governments never trusted India to carry out its obligation under Conditions (A)(2) and (3). But then it cannot claim (in advance) that India is not complying with the resolution

3) Simla Agreement has not (and legally can not) superseded the UN Resolutions. The LEGAL process is that if India, Pakistan and the Kashmiris agree on any solution of this dispute, they will have to go back to the UN Security Council with that "solution" to get it endorsed by the UNSC. Until then Kashmir will remain as an unresolved international dispute on the agenda of the UN Security Council, and the UN Resolutions on Kashmir will remain valid regardless of when they were adopted.

What legal process? The UNSC is not an adjudicatory body - like the ICJ or PCIA (where the Kishanganga dispute is going on). What you say is applicable for an adjudication (eg. if India and Pakistan agree on settlement of Kishanganga in some particular manner they must go back to the PCIA for modification of the award).

Why do you think nearly so many heads of state go on record to say the dispute is, today, a bilateral dispute? Even China - which would have, no doubt seized on this, to score a legal point has consistently maintained it's a bilateral issue.

You may be interested to know that since 2010 the UN has dropped Kashmir from a list of unresolved international disputes where the UN has a role.

https://tribune.com.pk/story/77671/kashmir-issue-left-unmentioned-in-united-nations/

Final Note: Non-applicability of UN intervention does not mean there is no dispute. There is very much a dispute, people are dying needlessly and money is being wasted in Kashmir that could have been put to better use. I am all for a political solution with or without UN help - but first step in working out a solution is to acknowledge the problem and the limitations.
 
Last edited:
Nah, I would just need to ask anyone that isn't a liberal or a Muslim, and even then some of them will claim Israel is much better than any Islamic nation. And what is it, a race? You claim that Israel is committing more human right violations than you, *EVEN IF* it was right, it would be like Al Qaeda accusing ISIS of terrorism. Except that in this case, Israel is neither Al Qaeda or ISIS.
Al-Qaida did not killed as much innocent as much isreal killed, truth always hurts but reality is reality, and for us isreal is biggest terrorist then Al-Qaida
 
Thanks for your post. My response



UN resolutions are not as a rule, binding. Had that been the case they would have been included as a source of international law under Art. 38(1) of the Statute of the ICJ. As it stands Art 38 does not list UN resolutions as source of international law, nor does the charter provide for any such effect for cause of action based on such resolutions.

In short: If resolutions were binding parties would be entitled to initiate legal proceedings for enforcement of such resolutions before the ICJ - which is currently not allowed.

In the absence of binding force the implementation of resolutions depends on willingness of states to cooperate. The only way to 'enforce' a resolution is if the UNSC directs specific countries (say X and Y) formation of a UN military force and instructs such force to enforce its writ - but that would itself be non-binding on those countries (X and Y)

You may want to see the text of the resolution. It is drafted as a recommendation, not an instruction (as was the case with the Korean war). See page 10 of the official document. http://www.un.org/en/ga/search/view_doc.asp?symbol=S/RES/51(1948)

You are entitled to your opinion my friend. But as I have brought forward legal arguments and opinions of some experts on the International Law (on this matter), I expect you to bring forward counter-arguments (backed up by credible sources), not your personal opinion ... Thank You

So how come successive Pakistani governments (civilian and military) have taken no steps to comply with the first condition of that resolution - i.e. Condition (A)(1) - withdrawal from J&K of all Pakistani nationals and tribesmen?

The answer is obvious- those governments never trusted India to carry out it's obligation under Conditions (A)(2) and (3). But then it cannot claim (in advance) that India is not complying with the resolution

Pakistan is under no obligation to withdraw its troops from Pak Administered Kashmir unilaterally and unconditionally ..

As for the Indian claim that "Plebiscite could not be held because Pakistan refused to withdraw it's forces", this Indian claim, just like many other Indian claims, is not accepted by anyone outside India.


Sir Owen Dixon, the UN appointed official mediator, reported to the Security Council that,

"In the end, I became convinced that India`s agreement would never be obtained to demilitarization in any such form, or to provisions governing the period of the plebiscite of any such character, as would in my opinion permit the plebiscite being conducted in conditions sufficiently guarding against intimidation, and other forms of abuse by which the freedom and fairness of the plebiscite might be imperiled." (Para 52 of Document S/1971)


The London Economist stated that "the whole world can see that India, which claims the support of this majority [the Kashmiri people]...has been obstructing a holding of an internationally supervised plebiscite. From this the world opinion can only conclude that India really has no confidence that the vote would go in its favour" The Economist (London), Feb 18, 1950



Sir Owen Dixon was the UN appointed official mediator, he blamed India for halting the process. But the Indians say that he was biased against India. This, however is not true.Sir Owen Dixon didn't view many of Pakistan's actions in Kashmir as legally justified. And it was not him only. As per UN Resolution of August 13, 1948, India agreed to begin to withdraw the bulk of its forces from that State in stages to be agreed upon with the Commission. But that agreement was never reached and that was what halted the process. And therefore the commission didn't ask Pakistan to withdraw its forces. Pakistan agreed to the UN proposals on demilitarization. But India rejected them.


From 1949 to 1952 eleven proposals were made which India rejected. Pakistan was even prepared to pull out its troops in favor of the UN troops irrespective of the Indian reaction to such a proposal and told the UN that it made no conditions.
 
Last edited:
Well the wording of the UN resolution or the charter of the ICJ or the definition of what is international law under the ICJ - these are not my personal opinions.

You quote the views of some experts (known as secondary sources), I am quoting primary sources.

Finally, you still cannot explain why Pakistan did not (during the period 1948 - 71) carry out the first step of the resolution. Even if you are correct and the two nations are legally bound by the 1948 resolution (for sake of argument) what stops Nawaz Sharif from withdrawing Pakistani forces and nationals from Pakistani Kashmir tomorrow?
 
Al-Qaida did not killed as much innocent as much isreal killed, truth always hurts but reality is reality, and for us isreal is biggest terrorist then Al-Qaida
Oh my god, IT WAS A METAPHOR, and even then your claim is still wrong!
 
Oh my god a Pakistani guy talks about mass human rights violations? You're exactly like the "Palestinians"! explain to me why do you live in the UK, and not Pakistan?

LOL stupid Israeli lecturing others about human rights. Your country is renownded for building walls and murdering unarmed innocent people. You are an abomination and even your own allies have deserted you LMAO

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...o-stop-building-new-settlements-a7560506.html
 
Last edited:
You may be interested to know that since 2010 the UN has dropped Kashmir from a list of unresolved international disputes where the UN has a role.

https://tribune.com.pk/story/77671/kashmir-issue-left-unmentioned-in-united-nations/

^^ That was an inadvertent omission (British Ambassador Mark Lyall Grant had not mentioned the Kashmir dispute in the context of unresolved long-running situations, despite the fact that it was included in the annual report) and the UN had set the record straight the very next day when it declared that the Jammu and Kashmir dispute remains on the UN Security Councils agenda, while rejecting as inaccurate that it has been removed from the list of unresolved issues.

Some articles today on Kashmir are inaccurate, UN Spokesman Farhan Haq said, referring to those reports, especially in Indian media.

He said the latest list of matters the Security Council is seized of continues to include the agenda item under which the Council has taken up Kashmir which, by a decision of the Council, remains on the list for this year, the spokesman added.

http://nation.com.pk/politics/17-Nov-2010/Kashmir-still-on-SCs-agenda-UN

http://www.rediff.com/news/report/kashmir-stays-on-unsc-agenda-list-for-this-year/20101117.htm
 
Pakistan is providing unconditional support to Kashmir cause. On Palastine issue its own neighbor and arab countries has sold the cause for money.

not support, Pakistan is providing unmitigated jihadi terrorism.
As to 'selling out', how do you feel about your military housing and catering to Osama bin laden right next to your military center in Abbottabad? you think that is not selling out but a charitable cause?
Or Hafees Saeed? or Dawood Ibrahim?
 
Well the wording of the UN resolution or the charter of the ICJ or the definition of what is international law under the ICJ - these are not my personal opinions.

You quote the views of some experts (known as secondary sources), I am quoting primary sources.

So you want to say that those experts on International Law (including the president of the International Court of justice) had formulated that opinion without reading the charter of the International Court of justice (or the UN resolutions on Kashmir) ?????


Finally, you still cannot explain why Pakistan did not (during the period 1948 - 71) carry out the first step of the resolution. Even if you are correct and the two nations are legally bound by the 1948 resolution (for sake of argument) what stops Nawaz Sharif from withdrawing Pakistani forces and nationals from Pakistani Kashmir tomorrow?

Already answered
 
From 1949 to 1952 eleven proposals were made which India rejected. Pakistan was even prepared to pull out its troops in favor of the UN troops irrespective of the Indian reaction to such a proposal and told the UN that it made no conditions.

That is a claim made by Sir Feroze Noon (former Pakistani PM) in 1957. It was submitted to the UN in 1957. After his submission the UN, and yet the UNSC in 1958 simply chose to reaffirm the earlier (1948) resolution.

All of this is well documented in the historian S R Bakshi's 1997 book 'Kashmir and the UNO'. No opinions there - most of the book is just a transcript of events in the UN documented painstakingly.
 
Please tell us what is the legal position of the region in question ? Kashmir is an unresolved international dispute on the agenda of the UN Security Council since January 1949 ... The UN Resolutions on Kashmir are still valid ... No ?

No.

That is a claim made by Sir Feroze Noon (former Pakistani PM) in 1957. It was submitted to the UN in 1957. After his submission the UN, and yet the UNSC in 1958 simply chose to reaffirm the earlier (1948) resolution.

All of this is well documented in the historian S R Bakshi's 1997 book 'Kashmir and the UNO'. No opinions there - most of the book is just a transcript of events in the UN documented painstakingly.

He repeats the same already debunked stuff in all threads.
 
That is a claim made by Sir Feroze Noon (former Pakistani PM) in 1957. It was submitted to the UN in 1957. After his submission the UN, and yet the UNSC in 1958 simply chose to reaffirm the earlier (1948) resolution.

All of this is well documented in the historian S R Bakshi's 1997 book 'Kashmir and the UNO'. No opinions there - most of the book is just a transcript of events in the UN documented painstakingly.


That's why the UN never blamed Pakistan for halting the process, The UN appointed official mediator (and the English press), however, blamed India ... How can you guys blame Pakistan and hold it responsible for NOT implementing the UN Resolutions then ?



No.



He repeats the same already debunked stuff in all threads.

^^ And here comes another Indian troll ....
 
I support the right of Kashmiri Pandits to come back fully. They along with the other inhabitants of J&K have suffered the absolute most. But, I hate how every issue on Kashmir is politicized by India and Pakistan.
 
So you want to say that those experts on International Law (including the president of the International Court of justice) had formulated that opinion without reading the charter of the International Court of justice (or the UN resolutions on Kashmir) ?????

It may interest you to know that I have, indeed, read all the articles - since much of my research is on a similar, related subject - and the Americans on my doctoral committee will not tolerate any gaps in my knowledge. (Apologies if I sound patronizing, not my intention)

This is a summary of what all the experts say: UN resolutions come in many forms and for different purposes. By default they are non-binding. Some, on procedural aspects, rules governing UN business, taking notice of facts, constitution of fact-finding groups and admission of new members are binding.

UN resolutions cannot, logically be binding because the UN is not an adjudicatory body. The UN does not examine witnesses before issuing resolutions, there is no cross examination, no discovery, etc. - in short it is a political body, not an adjudicatory body.

If what you say is right and UN resolutions are binding, Pakistan would / should have filed a lawsuit in the ICJ decades ago. Think about that.
 
LOL stupid Israeli lecturing others about human rights. Your country is renownded for building walls and murdering unarmed innocent people. You are an abomination and even your own allies have deserted you LMAO

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...o-stop-building-new-settlements-a7560506.html
What's the problem with building walls?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_barrier

Israel is not the only one that has them.
We don't kill innocent people, that is your style, otherwise you will just loose.
Trump has never ordered us anything, his administration, suggested us to stop building settlements, because and I quote: "It may not help bring peace with Palestinians"

We didn't take that suggestion and we keep building. Understand it, even if all of the world will tell us to stop, we wont. How did you get Trump onto this anyways?
 

Back
Top Bottom