fitpOsitive
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Yes sir. Just to put little more emphasis.did you mean hyper-sonic cruise missiles bro?
Babur 3 only a Stop-Gap, Pakistan needs real SLBM
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Ultima Thule
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what about nuclear fallout,?
fusion based direct drive is long way to go not before at-least in 2050,
war&peace
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Give us any example of SLCM. with range of 4000 km. Can you?
BHarwana
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never said that quote it.
Soumar (missile)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soumar_(missile)
Still stand by my statement.
You need more study man.
FuturePAF
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Sorry for the Delay everyone (a lot of patients to take care of this week)
Thank you to everyone for a lively debate
Amardeep mishra (Post 22),
Thank you for the clarification
(K-15 is an entirely solid fueled twin stage missile with variable range depending on trajectory and payload...)K-15 is not a cruise missile--I repeat--it is not a cruise missile. Those Indian journalists reporting such a fancy claim do not know what a cruise missile is. It is a solid fueled SLBM thats all...)
Rajaraja Chola (Post 27),
I Know the difference between the two; I was misinformed as to the nature of the second stage of the K-15. This topic was opened to flush out the details of the K-15, so that the issue of a Pakistani SLBM could be discussed.
MilSpec (Post #58)
Due to the "Cap" coming off during launch, I assumed it was similar to Brahmos in that it needed an air-breathing section. The sources that I quoted mentioned it was a hypersonic cruise missile. The other members state that the missiles is a ballistic missile. reading this thread has flushed out the answers.
MilSpec (Post #67)
Thank You for the Clarification
(K15 Sagarika and it's land based derrivative Shaurya are Two stage Solid Fuel quali Ballistic missile...There is no Liquid fuel in K15 Sagarika, and neither are there any air intakes for any ramjet propulsion. propulsion sub-system for the second stage on K15 sagarika throttleable ducted solid rocket, which has no whatsoever relation with brahmos. And for further disambiguation, the second stage in K15 Sagarika Is just a solid fueled motor)
Amardeep Mishra (Post #71)
Thank You For the Clarification and visual explanation
(I dont know what books your read but the nose cap is not there because it has to protect any air takes.It is there to make favorable hydrodynamics. Watch this video of R-39)
MilSpec (Post #90)
Thanks for the Clarification
(The nose cap that you keep referring to is to hermetically seal the missile in the canister launchers. After canister ejection the cap is released with retro-boosters to get aerodynamic optimization. K4 too uses the same sealing mechanism. There is a vector motor on the side of the body, which gives the missile the rotational movement around its axis when the missile descends from its horizontal flight path. This rotation is necessary since the lower part of the missile nose cone is exposed to maximum air drag, and rotation dissipates some of the heat from the heat shield)
amardeep mishra (post #132)
Good Post, this raises the question of missile composition. Is it due to solely the composite construction materials for the body of the missile that they can get the weight down to what you have mentioned, or are there are major reasons as well.
(As I have explained in my previous posts,since our missiles(SLBMs) do not possess a telescopic aerospike,they need a "blunt" nose cap to allow for a favorable hydrodynamic configuration. However once the missile clears off water,it doesnt require that anymore hence it(blunt nose cap) is ejected right after missiles comes out of water. it is like this--a blunt tear drop shape similar to torpedos is more favourable from hydrodynamics perspective whereas a pointed nose favors better aerodynamics. In western SLBMs like trident and M-51(french) --they have a telescopic aerospike. So,for under water motion of the missile,they have the blunt nose and as soon as the missile clears water,telescopic aerospike comes out to the full position. India too will have telescopic aerospike in next SLBM--i.e K-5. In fact not a lot of people know that K-5 project has superseded Agni-5 project in terms of priority!
Also,amazingly the diameter of K-4 is 1.3m which is roughly of the same size as that of shaheen series(2 and 3)(1.4m)!However the difference lies in weight and length of two systems-- former is a compact missile with length 12m(and weight of just 17t) whereas latter is taller with 17.5m and weight of 25t(almost the same length as Agni-5).)
---------------
Here is the current Pakistani Rocket Motors (http://www.b14643.de/Spacerockets/Specials/Dong-Feng/index.htm)
The Shaheen two uses the "Chinese solid L-SpaB-140B: 7.15 x 1.40 m; 15.10 t prop.; 594 kN vac"
Is the current L-SpaB-140B Motor under powered (i.e. weak solid fuel), or does the weight of the casing being steel and not composite play that much of a dramatic effect.
Here is a Video of the Ariane 6 Rocket being made with carbon composites
Thank you to everyone for a lively debate
Amardeep mishra (Post 22),
Thank you for the clarification
(K-15 is an entirely solid fueled twin stage missile with variable range depending on trajectory and payload...)K-15 is not a cruise missile--I repeat--it is not a cruise missile. Those Indian journalists reporting such a fancy claim do not know what a cruise missile is. It is a solid fueled SLBM thats all...)
Rajaraja Chola (Post 27),
I Know the difference between the two; I was misinformed as to the nature of the second stage of the K-15. This topic was opened to flush out the details of the K-15, so that the issue of a Pakistani SLBM could be discussed.
MilSpec (Post #58)
Due to the "Cap" coming off during launch, I assumed it was similar to Brahmos in that it needed an air-breathing section. The sources that I quoted mentioned it was a hypersonic cruise missile. The other members state that the missiles is a ballistic missile. reading this thread has flushed out the answers.
MilSpec (Post #67)
Thank You for the Clarification
(K15 Sagarika and it's land based derrivative Shaurya are Two stage Solid Fuel quali Ballistic missile...There is no Liquid fuel in K15 Sagarika, and neither are there any air intakes for any ramjet propulsion. propulsion sub-system for the second stage on K15 sagarika throttleable ducted solid rocket, which has no whatsoever relation with brahmos. And for further disambiguation, the second stage in K15 Sagarika Is just a solid fueled motor)
Amardeep Mishra (Post #71)
Thank You For the Clarification and visual explanation
(I dont know what books your read but the nose cap is not there because it has to protect any air takes.It is there to make favorable hydrodynamics. Watch this video of R-39)
MilSpec (Post #90)
Thanks for the Clarification
(The nose cap that you keep referring to is to hermetically seal the missile in the canister launchers. After canister ejection the cap is released with retro-boosters to get aerodynamic optimization. K4 too uses the same sealing mechanism. There is a vector motor on the side of the body, which gives the missile the rotational movement around its axis when the missile descends from its horizontal flight path. This rotation is necessary since the lower part of the missile nose cone is exposed to maximum air drag, and rotation dissipates some of the heat from the heat shield)
amardeep mishra (post #132)
Good Post, this raises the question of missile composition. Is it due to solely the composite construction materials for the body of the missile that they can get the weight down to what you have mentioned, or are there are major reasons as well.
(As I have explained in my previous posts,since our missiles(SLBMs) do not possess a telescopic aerospike,they need a "blunt" nose cap to allow for a favorable hydrodynamic configuration. However once the missile clears off water,it doesnt require that anymore hence it(blunt nose cap) is ejected right after missiles comes out of water. it is like this--a blunt tear drop shape similar to torpedos is more favourable from hydrodynamics perspective whereas a pointed nose favors better aerodynamics. In western SLBMs like trident and M-51(french) --they have a telescopic aerospike. So,for under water motion of the missile,they have the blunt nose and as soon as the missile clears water,telescopic aerospike comes out to the full position. India too will have telescopic aerospike in next SLBM--i.e K-5. In fact not a lot of people know that K-5 project has superseded Agni-5 project in terms of priority!
Also,amazingly the diameter of K-4 is 1.3m which is roughly of the same size as that of shaheen series(2 and 3)(1.4m)!However the difference lies in weight and length of two systems-- former is a compact missile with length 12m(and weight of just 17t) whereas latter is taller with 17.5m and weight of 25t(almost the same length as Agni-5).)
---------------
Here is the current Pakistani Rocket Motors (http://www.b14643.de/Spacerockets/Specials/Dong-Feng/index.htm)
The Shaheen two uses the "Chinese solid L-SpaB-140B: 7.15 x 1.40 m; 15.10 t prop.; 594 kN vac"
Is the current L-SpaB-140B Motor under powered (i.e. weak solid fuel), or does the weight of the casing being steel and not composite play that much of a dramatic effect.
Here is a Video of the Ariane 6 Rocket being made with carbon composites
EpiiC
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so that we don't get dectected close by.... US had nuclear sub since 1959!! we are 60 years behind!!
Babur 3 is minor Pak needs real nuclear detterent which is Submarine nuclear powered with ICBMs long range, Marv, Mirv, high yeild thermonuclear!!!
foxtrot1
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Babur 3 is nothing and does not promise second strike credibility.
India having k4 and k15 tested several times from under sea platform does not claim to have proper second strike credibility and you guys after testing a subsonic 400km range CM claiming to deter India.. haha LOL
confidence is good but over confidence kills
second strike means your nuclear assets remain unharmed and capable to inflict damage from there where enemy has not reached.
India has capability to hit Isb from sitting in South China sea or somewhere near mid of Indian ocean or Malaysia.
India having k4 and k15 tested several times from under sea platform does not claim to have proper second strike credibility and you guys after testing a subsonic 400km range CM claiming to deter India.. haha LOL
confidence is good but over confidence kills
second strike means your nuclear assets remain unharmed and capable to inflict damage from there where enemy has not reached.
India has capability to hit Isb from sitting in South China sea or somewhere near mid of Indian ocean or Malaysia.
Ultima Thule
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its a long term project bro may be in after 2030 no one shares you their strategic technology
not even China
EpiiC
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India ONLY HAS 1 nuclear sub thats weak thats not that good, you need much more!!!
foxtrot1
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We have 2, 2nd on lease from russia
3rd under construction
EpiiC
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What is your budget for this year ? $480B?
foxtrot1
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Budget is not a problem. only speed is the problem.
India should have at least 4 ssbn
Two for CBG and two for miscllenous.
EpiiC
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Well if you should have 10 SSBN for a country fastly appraoching 1.4B people, you guys need much more firepower otherwise its not befiting your status...
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