Chengdu J-20 5th Generation Aircraft News & Discussions

[cirr]

Heading for Zhuhai??

 

[Deino]

Heading for Zhuhai??

Maybe only preparing ... isn't it a bit too early to already go now ?

 

[Deino]

short video ...

https://twitter.com/x/status/788015331520356352

 

[星海军事]

It seems that the third LRIP J-20 has a new splinter patterned painting

 

[cirr]

 

[Deino]

It seems that the third LRIP J-20 has a new splinter patterned painting

Indeed ... and now in full-size & high-resolution !!

Here we go ...

 

[j20blackdragon]

AL-31FN Series 3 engine count. I'll do it with photographic evidence.

53 engines used up for J-10B production.

49 engines used up for J-10C production.

16 engines used for J-20 prototypes.

2 x 2001
2 x 2002
2 x 2011
2 x 2012
2 x 2013
2 x 2015
2 x 2016
2 x 2017

And lastly, we have this picture of three LRIP J-20s together. 6 engines.

124 engines used up.

This surpasses the 123 AL-31FN Series 3 engines purchased in 2011 for $500 million. There should be no engines left. But where is the Russian/Chinese announcement of additional engine orders?

Moreover, I would like to point out that we had news regarding the J-10A engine many months prior to initial production in 2002. I'll provide two examples below. Note the dates of these reports.

-----------------------------

China to buy Russian engines for F-10 fighters June 15, 2001 PARIS, Jun 14, 2001 (Itar-Tass via COMTEX) - - The command of the Chinese army decided to equip its F-10 fighter planes with the Russian AL-31FN engines, a member of the Chinese delegation at the international airshow in Le Bourget told Tass on Thursday. He said the Chinese army is to receive over 300 such planes in the coming ten years. The serial production of the fighters is to begin in 2003. However Russia will supply several dozen of the engines in the coming two years.

http://forum.keypublishing.com/archive/index.php/t-3820.html

-----------------------------

<Kanwa News Sept 10th 2001> Kanwa learned that Chinese J10A (F10A) fighters would be mass-produced starting from next year. J10A will be installed with AL31FN turbofan engine developed by Russia's SALUT. The source revealed that under the Russia-China mutual agreement, in Phase One, 54 AL31FN engines would be turned over to China by the end of this year. Consequently, there will be 300 same type of engines turned over to China. This plan is in effect till after 2003. The movement indicates that the first batch of mass produced J10A will be numbered around 50. The production will start from next year.

The above news has been confirmed by Chengdu No.132 factory, source from this factory said that they are working hard for the "Type" plane (Xing Hao Ji) in the final phase.....! <Kanwa digest news>

http://forum.keypublishing.com/archive/index.php/t-4563.html

-----------------------------

J-10A production began in 2002. And we got the news above before the days of social media and widespread news on the internet.

On the other hand, J-20 LRIP already began when 2101 appeared in December 2015. It is now October 2016 -- at least 10 months later. Where are the reports of an engine deal with Russia? According to rumors, J-20 is likely to enter service with the PLAAF at the end of 2016. We are also getting reports that J-20 will be showing up at Zhuhai Airshow next month. The plane is now being publicly unveiled. How can there be no news regarding a Russian engine deal at such a late stage in the J-20's development if the J-20 is indeed using the AL-31FN Series 3? There is nothing top secret about the AL-31FN Series 3 at this point. Why keep something as mundane as an engine deal secret?

 

[Deino]

...
124 engines used up.

....

Exactly and like I already explained yesterday following @ChineseTiger1986 's post from yesterday, that reported about the J-20A using NOT the AL-31FN but a specialised version based on the AL-31FM2 !

https://defence.pk/threads/chengdu-...ates-discussions.111471/page-416#post-8819350

Therefore and like I said since so long: similar to the once and long still secret original AL-31FN-contract for the J-10 CAC chose a similar approach for the J-20. And since these are not exact AL-31FN Series 3, they were never mentioned or included in the number of engines reserved for the J-10B and J-10C.

Would be interesting to know the specific thrust of this engine. If it follows the regular FM2 about 142kN should be assumed.

Deino

 

[asia2000]

We are also getting reports that J-20 will be showing up at Zhuhai Airshow next month. The plane is now being publicly unveiled. How can there be no news regarding a Russian engine deal at such a late stage in the J-20's development if the J-20 is indeed using the AL-31FN Series 3?

If J20 is indeed using WS10, those WS10 guys would have bragged about it and some awards would have been given. So, no news means J20 is still using AL31. I agree with Mr. Xi Yazhou's analysis, Chengdu does not like WS10 due to performance or reliability problems.

 

[Deino]

A few more I haven't seen so far ...

 

[j20blackdragon]

Exactly and like I already explained yesterday following @ChineseTiger1986 's post from yesterday, that reported about the J-20A using NOT the AL-31FN but a specialised version based on the AL-31FM2 !

https://defence.pk/threads/chengdu-...ates-discussions.111471/page-416#post-8819350

Therefore and like I said since so long: similar to the once and long still secret original AL-31FN-contract for the J-10 CAC chose a similar approach for the J-20. And since these are not exact AL-31FN Series 3, they were never mentioned or included in the number of engines reserved for the J-10B and J-10C.

Would be interesting to know the specific thrust of this engine. If it follows the regular FM2 about 142kN should be assumed.

Deino

The AL-31FM2 (14,500 kgf thrust) was designed for re-engining of the entire Russian Air Force Su-27, Su-30 and Su-34 fleet without any additional airframe and engine nacelle modifications. That means all the Chinese Flankers can use this engine too, including probably the Flanker clones like the J-11D. Why hasn't China ordered a massive number of these engines for the entire PLAAF? When and where was the contract signed? How many engines were ordered? What was the total contract value?

If Russia is actually selling the AL-31FM2, they are essentially shooting their own future Su-35 sales in the foot. I love it.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Could You please provide a source or the original Chinese language post he is citing especially where it mentions 180kN and 11 TWR ?

Thanks in advance,
Deino

Here it was revealed by a famous Chinese aerospace expert that the benchmark for the WS-15 was set for TWR 10 back in 2003.

http://lt.cjdby.net/thread-2306554-1-1.html

But according to Xi Yazhou, the frontrunner Internet pundit who claims that the J-20A uses the AL-31FM2 and the WS-15 being ready for the flight on the IL-76, the WS-15 has many improved variants also passing its test on the ground as well.

As for the information I just showed in the previous post, the WS-15 has used the new material that could withstand up to 2200 degree Celsius in its maximum inlet turbine temperature, and in comparison, the F119 could only withstand for around 1600 degree Celsius.

I guess this new super WS-15 should be the improved variant that mentioned by Xi Yazhou, which is now passing its test on the ground.

 

[Deino]

Final one for tonight ?!

By the way ... how many truly identified different LRIP birds do we have by now:

Besides reports on 7 or even 9 aircraft, fully confirmed are at least two grey ones (one in plain grey the other in this new splinter camo) + two currently still yellow birds.

What's on the reports two weeks ago concerning two grey J-20As having left CAC ?? ... did they come back ?


Deino

 

[grey boy 2]

 

[grey boy 2]