C for CPEC, Callousness and Controversy

[DESERT FIGHTER]

I think most Pashtuns/Pathans and Baluchis if given the choice would secede. Let's not forget that the Baluchis were forcibly incorporated into Pakistan by the 'saintly' Jinnah, and that hundreds of peaceful Pashtuns/Pathans demonstrators were shot dead also on his orders at the Barbrra massacre.

Since they are not being given the choice, there will be endless conflict in Pakistan until those groups are allowed to go free.

Given a choice between seeing a slow motion Han Chinese takeover of the lands of the Indus a la Tibet...Pashtuns would rather be free. If the Punjabi and Kashmiri Jatts want to lick the Han boot, that is their choice.

What a crock of shyt!
Pashtuns today comprise 35% of the military ! And FC is entirely Pashtun .. Pashtuns have been Heads of State,military chiefs etc!

There is no Pashtun succession insurgency .. Even the TTP (which has other ethnic terrorists factions Aswell) demand not succession but their brand of sharia!
You foolishly mentioned barbrra.. Without knowing anything about it! It was a protest by red shirts (communists) against Anglo Saxon legal system in the country .. Which lead to a misconception (attract on the DCO) and resulted in the incident.. Both the police and the officer were from KPK .. And the protest wasn't against "forceful" merger of KPK with Pakistan.. Muslim League had won a clear victory in KPK !!-- there is no succession movement in KPK.. so stop bastardising history!

I'm a Baluch and so are several members and mods on this forum ! Several Baluch princely states had merged with Pakistan themselves .. Including Makran,Lasbella etc! The only princely state that hesitated (at first) was Kalat !! Which was in the middle of Baluchistan surrounded by states that had already merged with Pakistan.. The Khan of Kalat held negotiations with Quaid e Azam and merged with Pakistan.. It was his brother that lead resistance against the state!.. But later surrendered on amnesty offer by state! Today the Khan of Kalats grandson is a proud Pakistani!
The insurgency broke out during Bhuttos regime .. On issues like 1 unit system,, and later died.

Even today the light intensity conflict is mostly over with the militant leaders wanting talks! The sons of the previous anti state militant leaders are sitting in govt .. A Baluch Nationalist govt is ruling Baluchistan.. And our province is peaceful and going towards development thanks to good steps like 18tg amendment (provincial autonomy),NFC awards and mass campaign of recruitment by army from Baluchistan ... Along with steps like the establishment of schools,cadet colleges etc.. Even at the height of insurgency .. It was about autonomy and neglect of state ! Not succession !


So don't peddle your shyt here...

Even the person you ignorantly quoted is a Pashtun!

What you need is a sulfuric acid enema.

Selous you are also Pashtun if my memory serves me right..

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Please provide a breakdown of the senior ranks. Even the Syrian army had a large component of Sunnis in its ranks. It doesn't mean much. So for instance did the British Indian Army, likewise doesn't mean they are regarded as equals.

You must be really dumb to say something like that.. And I mean really retarded... Do I need to list military chiefs and presidents like Ayub,Yahya,Nur Khan,Hamid Gul,Asad Durrani,Waheed Kakar,Abbas Khattak,Asghar Khan,Hakeemullah Khan Durani,Jamal A Khan,Farooq Feroze Khan.. etc etc..(to name a few mil chiefs) Who lead the military as "unequal" inferior military chiefs & 3 star generals!

The unarmed protesters shot dead in the Barbrra massacre were members of the Khudai Khidmatgars were followers of Abdul Ghaffar Khan. Check your facts before you correct someone else.

Guess who was called Reds Shirts .. And which party is a heir to KK? .. You are either very foolish or just another sad little troll.

@farhan_9909 @Khan_patriot. @Pukhtoon. @TaimiKhan. @ghilzai. @T-Faz. @Orakzai. When are you guys succeeding from evil Pakistan!

How peaceful Baluchistan is can be gauged by the numbers of bodies of Baluchis being found dumped by the side of the roads in Baluchistan and the murders carried out by Sayyid Pervez Musharaf. Likewise your history of the Baluchi rejection of Pakistan is as much a myth as your claim that the Khudai Khidmatgars were 'communists'. People like yourself are adept at these sorts of labeling games e.g. Pashtuns/Pathans who are deobandis become 'Wahhabis' on Pakistani television even while Urdu speakers hide their pro-Ayatollah sympathies among the Gulf Arabs.

Regarding the rest of your anecdotal proof, there are people who are asleep and there are traitors like Sayyid Mir Jaafar Ali among every group of people.

And if you're going to use abusive language you may as well not bother because as Shaykh Saadi said centuries ago, 'those whose reason fails, they have only heads filled with abuse'.

@Irfan Baloch. Is this guy just dumb or a troll ?

 

[Khan_patriot]

I think most Pashtuns/Pathans and Baluchis if given the choice would secede. Let's not forget that the Baluchis were forcibly incorporated into Pakistan by the 'saintly' Jinnah, and that hundreds of peaceful Pashtuns/Pathans demonstrators were shot dead also on his orders at the Barbrra massacre.

Since they are not being given the choice, there will be endless conflict in Pakistan until those groups are allowed to go free.

Given a choice between seeing a slow motion Han Chinese takeover of the lands of the Indus a la Tibet...Pashtuns would rather be free. If the Punjabi and Kashmiri Jatts want to lick the Han boot, that is their choice.

What are you on mate, I am from the Pukhtoon heartland and I am proud to say that I am a proud, patriotic Pakistani.
I say that not just for myself but can safely say this about the huge majority in the region.
You might say that the tribals are the ones who want to cede but I am a tribal as well and we have a long and proud tradition of proudly fighting for the state.
Pukhtoons form a huge chunk of the military, bureaucracy, the business class and even the political process.
Some might have grievances but they are just that, they want their grievances to be addressed and not cessation.

You must be really dumb to say something like that.. And I mean really retarded... Do I need to list military chiefs and presidents like Ayub,Yahya,Nur Khan,Hamid Gul,Asad Durrani,Waheed Kakar,Abbas Khattak,Asghar Khan,Hakeemullah Khan Durani,Jamal A Khan,Farooq Feroze Khan.. etc etc..(to name a few mil chiefs) Who lead the military as "unequal" inferior military chiefs & 3 star generals!


Guess who was called Reds Shirts .. And which party is a heir to KK? .. You are either very foolish or just another sad little troll.

@farhan_9909 @Khan_patriot. @Pukhtoon. @TaimiKhan. @ghilzai. @T-Faz. @Orakzai. When are you guys succeeding from evil Pakistan!



@Irfan Baloch. Is this guy just dumb or a troll ?

Bro this guy has just been on the on the pipe a bit too much, I don't know if he is genuinely naive or just a troll or a victim of Indian the shite Indians spew here more often then not.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

What are you on mate, I am from the Pukhtoon heartland and I am proud to say that I am a proud, patriotic Pakistani.
I say that not just for myself but can safely say this about the huge majority in the region.
You might say that the tribals are the ones who want to cede but I am a tribal as well and we have a long and proud tradition of proudly fighting for the state.
Pukhtoons form a huge chunk of the military, bureaucracy, the business class and even the political process.
Some might have grievances but they are just that, they want their grievances to be addressed and not cessation.

Bro this guy has just been on the on the pipe a bit too much, I don't know if he is genuinely naive or just a troll or a victim of Indian the shite Indians spew here more often then not.

Pashtuns or any Pak ethnic group doesn't need to prove or have a certified to show their patriotism ..! Fuk that.. That disgusts me.

As for this guy .. I have a feeling that this guy is either Indian or a pseudo intellectual type.. Like that turd "tareek fateeh" clown.

I just tagged you guys to embarrass him.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

@Irfan Baloch. Is this guy just dumb or a troll ?

guy has issues .. what can I say? Allah knows well what goes through the heart but its definately dark. the prefix to Musharraf's name is a big give away and his problem with it.

Surah Kausar comes to mind for the likes of such people.

 

[Sugarcane]

guy has issues .. what can I say? Allah knows well what goes through the heart but its definately dark. the prefix to Musharraf's name is a big give away and his problem with it.

Surah Kausar comes to mind for the likes of such people.

Looks like 2nd janam of @Porus, flag check is required.

 

[MilSpec]

PTI is playing cock block here on the CPEC issue. KP is getting a share of every major project. The so called nationalists want to deprive the biggest province, the biggest domestic economy and the biggest industrial hub from the biggest project in nation's history. This is stupid at best. Also the eastern alignment serves us as a military deterrent. By placing a major Chinese, Pakistani asset within 100km of Indian border you are creating a strategic line in the sand.

In an event of a conflict the Indians would think a 100 times before attacking the Lines of Communication which serve billions of dollars worth of trade interests to not only Pakistan but China and other CPEC partner states. The only mission of PTI here is to look as if they are "doing opposition". They have no solid argument to hide the fact that they are merely trying to deny PMLN the 'credit' that comes with completing CPEC which they fear might translate into vote bank in 2018 elections. It also allows Imran Khan and PK to tap into the vote bank of far left ultra nationalists associated to ANP. This of course is being done without any regard for the project that might change Pakistan as a state for the better.

As Iqbal said : "The Nations are born in the hearts of poets, they however wither and die at the hands of the politicians".

@Icarus @Irfan Baloch @Hyperion @Oscar

???

 

[Viper0011.]

CPEC and some politicians with new found voices have become a regular feature on national television, the opposing view has not been effectively conveyed by neither the government nor the media. All that's come out against this skullduggery is this one blog entry, about a rational reality that more people need to see for themselves.

The China-Pakistan Economic Corridor, also known as CPEC consists of a proposed plan to establish a network of roads and rail link from the Pakistani deep sea port of Gwadar to the Kashgar Special Economic Zone and then deeper into China. The plan is intended to stimulate growth in other sectors as well and a set of gas/oil pipelines in addition to several industrial zones are set to be built around the CPEC serving as a nucleus.
@Side-Winder @Horus @WAJsal @HRK

Great post!! I wanted to add a few comments too:

1) CPEC is a 3 phase program (not sure why Pakistani media keeps calling it a "PROJECT"). A "Program" has many projects in it. So the CPEC program has different legs / segments and each of those segments has its own projects. For example, Energy is one leg / segment and has energy production related projects. Infrastructure is another leg / segment and has its own list of projects. Port and related things are under another leg, trade routes and business districts are another leg with associated projects!!!!

So this program is a network of projects. None of which are influenced by people, states, governments, but rather, how best the entire program would work, where the businesses vs. shipping hubs, vs. the ports need to be, for which type of business and trade activity (VERY complex strategy).

2) This notion that somehow "Punjab" is taking all the love and cash is frankly stupid. I've been studying this project since the blue prints of it were discussed between NS, the Chinese, WB and ADB two years ago.

3) Now let's move to today from the 3 phases I mentioned before. Today, we are in Phase I. And in that phase, there is a network of routes the Chinese will build (first network). They will build these based on their perceived trade activities, routing, and SAFETY.

In other words, where they feel the most safe right now, they'll work on it while the new Marine force is setup and other protection is spread to other "sensitive" areas. So its obvious that due to safety concerns, some areas won't see work starting till later.

That's not due to corruption, or one state taking others money, its simple common sense. The investor rules and its their money. Pakistanis should appreciate such a large investment that would change Pakistan into an Australia (literally and GDP wise) in a decade or so!!

4) Initially, there are 17 business / industry parks to be setup in phase I. And 5 will be in KPK, 4 in Baluchistan, 5 in Sindh and later, 4 in Punjab (so the KPK and Baluchistan start out with a bigger share). The road connectivity will be all over the country to China and eventually to Iran and the Central Russian states on the other side through KPK. The M series of highways will intersect with this route in every state and in multiple points in the long run. So its not like someone is being "ignored" as the stupid, illiterate, narrow minded politicians say it all the time!!

5) The MOST benefit would be received by the people of KPK and Baluchistan. Baluchistan obviously more than anyone else. Punjab will have its share of growth due to already setup industries. But Baluchistan and the KPK will take over Punjab's place on the growth map, as the program and associated infrastructure is expanded in phases.

But people of Baluchistan and one side of the KPK will start to see an industrial revolution by 2018-2019. Much more and faster than the rest of the country.

6) There is another M series highway being built between Lahore and Karachi. Punjab will continue to use Karachi as the main port as the distance is MUCH lesser that way, then it is to many parts of Punjab to Gawader. Plus, there are already established relationships between the two states for shipping and receiving stuff through Karachi already.

At the end, all states will become peaceful, modern and richer if this program goes through. It is stupid for any politician to question a foreign investment based program which, by using common sense tells you how valuable it is for Pakistan.

Once connected to Central Russian states, majority of the share of the trade and business activity will be done in and through the KPK and Baluchistan due to shorter distance to Punjab and Sindh and to the Central Russian states.

So why don't your politicians get it? I don't know as they are damaging their own country and denying pretty much the only serious opportunity that exists for Pakistan's growth, to this nation.

Its the people's responsibility at this point to ensure this program succeeds so that Pakistan can become like a UAE (actually Pakistan will go much higher than the UAE due to her population, size of the market and young labor, more like Australia)!!

@MastanKhan @Imran Khan @Mrc : We just brought this up in a different thread briefly. I wrote a longer / detailed version of the CPEC program. Read up and let me know your thoughts.

@mr42O @Leader @Jzaib @notorious_eagle @Ammara Chaudhry : I thought I'd add you guys on here so you can understand some more about the CPEC project as you casually criticize it without knowing what it really is!!

 

[Jungibaaz]

Look, the criticism of CPEC can be valid, there is MUCH to be desired from this government and transparency, and of course it has stupidly put it's own projects under the CPEC umbrella and blurred the lines between some things that should be well defined and separate.

Opposition can fight well with the government on their disagreements, they know they can put up a fight, they have the political power to pressure the government. But halting, seriously delaying or creating a hostile atmosphere to this thing is not the way, it is a big opportunity worth more than anything we've ever seen in out lifetimes. Don't mess it up, by all means improve it, pressure the government, that is your job.

This project is bigger than the provincial politics or party games that may be played here.

 

[SQ8]

IK is essentially now feeling the withdrawal effects of the "Tsunami". The people have moved onto other things and his dreams of being PM are pretty much dashed to naught.

 

[Orakzai]

You must be really dumb to say something like that.. And I mean really retarded... Do I need to list military chiefs and presidents like Ayub,Yahya,Nur Khan,Hamid Gul,Asad Durrani,Waheed Kakar,Abbas Khattak,Asghar Khan,Hakeemullah Khan Durani,Jamal A Khan,Farooq Feroze Khan.. etc etc..(to name a few mil chiefs) Who lead the military as "unequal" inferior military chiefs & 3 star generals!


Guess who was called Reds Shirts .. And which party is a heir to KK? .. You are either very foolish or just another sad little troll.

@farhan_9909 @Khan_patriot. @Pukhtoon. @TaimiKhan. @ghilzai. @T-Faz. @Orakzai. When are you guys succeeding from evil Pakistan!



@Irfan Baloch. Is this guy just dumb or a troll ?

we are not, this is our country. we would raise voice against injustice when its done to our people but that doesn't mean we want secession from Pakistan, its useless to say.

But at the same time when we talk about rights of KPK FATA and Baluchistan, some idiots on PDF label us traitors, i doubt they would say it on our face but since they know that they are hiding behind computer so they do say shit as they like.
khattak's stance is very just on this whole CPEC issue.

Great post!! I wanted to add a few comments too:

1) CPEC is a 3 phase program (not sure why Pakistani media keeps calling it a "PROJECT"). A "Program" has many projects in it. So the CPEC program has different legs / segments and each of those segments has its own projects. For example, Energy is one leg / segment and has energy production related projects. Infrastructure is another leg / segment and has its own list of projects. Port and related things are under another leg, trade routes and business districts are another leg with associated projects!!!!

So this program is a network of projects. None of which are influenced by people, states, governments, but rather, how best the entire program would work, where the businesses vs. shipping hubs, vs. the ports need to be, for which type of business and trade activity (VERY complex strategy).

2) This notion that somehow "Punjab" is taking all the love and cash is frankly stupid. I've been studying this project since the blue prints of it were discussed between NS, the Chinese, WB and ADB two years ago.

3) Now let's move to today from the 3 phases I mentioned before. Today, we are in Phase I. And in that phase, there is a network of routes the Chinese will build (first network). They will build these based on their perceived trade activities, routing, and SAFETY.

In other words, where they feel the most safe right now, they'll work on it while the new Marine force is setup and other protection is spread to other "sensitive" areas. So its obvious that due to safety concerns, some areas won't see work starting till later.

That's not due to corruption, or one state taking others money, its simple common sense. The investor rules and its their money. Pakistanis should appreciate such a large investment that would change Pakistan into an Australia (literally and GDP wise) in a decade or so!!

4) Initially, there are 17 business / industry parks to be setup in phase I. And 5 will be in KPK, 4 in Baluchistan, 5 in Sindh and later, 4 in Punjab (so the KPK and Baluchistan start out with a bigger share). The road connectivity will be all over the country to China and eventually to Iran and the Central Russian states on the other side through KPK. The M series of highways will intersect with this route in every state and in multiple points in the long run. So its not like someone is being "ignored" as the stupid, illiterate, narrow minded politicians say it all the time!!

5) The MOST benefit would be received by the people of KPK and Baluchistan. Baluchistan obviously more than anyone else. Punjab will have its share of growth due to already setup industries. But Baluchistan and the KPK will take over Punjab's place on the growth map, as the program and associated infrastructure is expanded in phases.

But people of Baluchistan and one side of the KPK will start to see an industrial revolution by 2018-2019. Much more and faster than the rest of the country.

6) There is another M series highway being built between Lahore and Karachi. Punjab will continue to use Karachi as the main port as the distance is MUCH lesser that way, then it is to many parts of Punjab to Gawader. Plus, there are already established relationships between the two states for shipping and receiving stuff through Karachi already.

At the end, all states will become peaceful, modern and richer if this program goes through. It is stupid for any politician to question a foreign investment based program which, by using common sense tells you how valuable it is for Pakistan.

Once connected to Central Russian states, majority of the share of the trade and business activity will be done in and through the KPK and Baluchistan due to shorter distance to Punjab and Sindh and to the Central Russian states.

So why don't your politicians get it? I don't know as they are damaging their own country and denying pretty much the only serious opportunity that exists for Pakistan's growth, to this nation.

Its the people's responsibility at this point to ensure this program succeeds so that Pakistan can become like a UAE (actually Pakistan will go much higher than the UAE due to her population, size of the market and young labor, more like Australia)!!

@MastanKhan @Imran Khan @Mrc : We just brought this up in a different thread briefly. I wrote a longer / detailed version of the CPEC program. Read up and let me know your thoughts.

@mr42O @Leader @Jzaib @notorious_eagle @Ammara Chaudhry : I thought I'd add you guys on here so you can understand some more about the CPEC project as you casually criticize it without knowing what it really is!!

well you do have some valid points but i would like you to have a look at this CPEC project's pic, which shows where most of the power projects are going to be made hence out of $46 billion $37-$39 billion is going to be spent on energy projects. And in this whole chain of projects KPK will get only one project, so means out of $39 billion may be $700 millions -$1 billion are going in KPK share.

KPK's reservations are not the route or road but more of the unavailability of all other utilities like energy, fibre optic, gas which are vital for flourishing of any industry, its easy to say KPK is going to be benefited the most but how?

plus i was wondering what on earth METRO LAHORE has got anything to do with CPEC?

 

[Moonlight]

@viper0011 sir thanks for the tag and I was totally looking for this.
Before I read through all the comments and arguments, I want to ask something. I read an argument somewhere made by PML(N)'s supporters, that why the rout of this network is only going to be through the cities of Punjab? Pardon my lack of knowledge to this matter. Did China draw a different map to this route? This route goes through all the four provinces? But PML (N) rejected it?

 

[Icarus]

we are not, this is our country. we would raise voice against injustice when its done to our people but that doesn't mean we want secession from Pakistan, its useless to say.

But at the same time when we talk about rights of KPK FATA and Baluchistan, some idiots on PDF label us traitors, i doubt they would say it on our face but since they know that they are hiding behind computer so they do say shit as they like.
khattak's stance is very just on this whole CPEC issue.



well you do have some valid points but i would like you to have a look at this CPEC project's pic, which shows where most of the power projects are going to be made hence out of $46 billion $37-$39 billion is going to be spent on energy projects. And in this whole chain of projects KPK will get only one project, so means out of $39 billion may be $700 millions -$1 billion are going in KPK share.
View attachment 286915
KPK's reservations are not the route or road but more of the unavailability of all other utilities like energy, fibre optic, gas which are vital for flourishing of any industry, its easy to say KPK is going to be benefited the most but how?

plus i was wondering what on earth METRO LAHORE has got anything to do with CPEC?

This infographic is flawed, it incorporates all the development projects in Pakistan and places them under the title of CPEC, your question about Orange Line is an observation along the same limes. It is not a part of the CPEC program and nor are several of these other projects.

@viper0011 sir thanks for the tag and I was totally looking for this.
Before I read through all the comments and arguments, I want to ask something. I read an argument somewhere made by PML(N)'s supporters, that why the rout of this network is only going to be through the cities of Punjab? Pardon my lack of knowledge to this matter. Did China draw a different map to this route? This route goes through all the four provinces? But PML (N) rejected it?

We are in no position to reject or accept anything, its a Chinese project and thus under their discretion. Its just political point scoring going on between parties who feel their position would be undermined if this government completes this project so they will halt it and cause a massive loss to the nation rather than let the government complete it and take credit.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

everything must become political for the media and certain vested interest groups.......CPEC is a great opportunity to connect the region and it will pay its dividends soon Inshallah. Sick and tired of the banter and whining by the morons

 

[TaimiKhan]

PTI is playing cock block here on the CPEC issue. KP is getting a share of every major project. The so called nationalists want to deprive the biggest province, the biggest domestic economy and the biggest industrial hub from the biggest project in nation's history. This is stupid at best. Also the eastern alignment serves us as a military deterrent. By placing a major Chinese, Pakistani asset within 100km of Indian border you are creating a strategic line in the sand.

In an event of a conflict the Indians would think a 100 times before attacking the Lines of Communication which serve billions of dollars worth of trade interests to not only Pakistan but China and other CPEC partner states. The only mission of PTI here is to look as if they are "doing opposition". They have no solid argument to hide the fact that they are merely trying to deny PMLN the 'credit' that comes with completing CPEC which they fear might translate into vote bank in 2018 elections. It also allows Imran Khan and PK to tap into the vote bank of far left ultra nationalists associated to ANP. This of course is being done without any regard for the project that might change Pakistan as a state for the better.

As Iqbal said : "The Nations are born in the hearts of poets, they however wither and die at the hands of the politicians".

@Icarus @Irfan Baloch @Hyperion @Oscar

I think you have done a very wrong assessment of the situation. And India will never think a 100 times in case of war of not attacking the route. If its required, they will attack, rather they will make it an objective to further put us under pressure.

And once the route of PML-N (eastern) is active before the main (western) route, i can assure you the that no further investment will be made in Baluchistan or KPK, rather all the invest and preference will go to eastern route. Western route will never materialize.

And i feel very sorry for especially senior members on this board who are making it into a PML-N Vs PTI fight, which in reality is not.