IAF to order 16 more HAL LCA Tejas Mark I Twin Seater Trainer Aircrafts

[Chanakya's_Chant]

IAF likely to increase order for Tejas MK-1 Trainer​

According to certain media reports Indian Air force (IAF) most likely will place order for more 16 Tejas MK-1 Twin seater/Trainer aircrafts . Recently first flight of Second Twin seater/Trainer aircraft PV6 took place . PV6 will be final prototype leading to series production of trainer aircrafts and it incorporates all the modification such as a new communication system, radar, EW sensors and new navigation systems for automatic landing asked by IAF including ability to use it for combat roles .

IAF already has placed order for 40 Tejas MK-1 aircrafts out of which first lot of 20 aircrafts will be of IOC-II configuration and second lot of 20 aircrafts will be of FOC configuration . out of 40 aircrafts ordered by IAF 32 aircrafts will be single seater aircrafts while 8 will be Twin seater/Trainer. It is unlikely that MK-2 will have Twin seater/Trainer variants in future and MK-1 Twin seater/Trainer will be used as conversion trainer aircrafts for training MK-2 Pilots in future . New orders will help in keeping production line busy till MK-2 enters production post 2020 time frame .

Indian Navy too has placed orders for 8 Naval LCA MK-1 out of which 4 will be single seater aircrafts similar to NP-2 aircraft which will have its first flight soon and 4 Twin seater aircraft similar to NP-1 which already has been shifted to INS Hansa Naval base in Goa to carry out from Shore-based test facility (SBTF) . Another Single seater Naval LCA MK-1 will also be built to fast track Naval LCA Project before focus shifts to Naval LCA MK-2 development .

Source:- IAF likely to increase order for Tejas MK-1 Trainer | idrw.org

Trainer PV-6 First Flight​

First Flight of LCA Tejas Trainer PV-6 - 8th November 2014
The second Tejas Trainer PV-6 (KH-T-2010) flew for the first time on 8th of Nov 2014 from HAL Aiport in Bengaluru piloted by Gp Capt Vivart Singh(Test Pilot) and Gp Capt Kabadwal (a Flight Test Enginer, in the rear cockpit). The flight is another step forward towards achieving the Final Operational Clearance (FOC).​

Trainer PV-6 First Flight - LCA-Tejas​

 

[Screambowl]

how much does it take to be fully operational on a new aircraft? As this is also new to IAF pilots.

 

[Chanakya's_Chant]

how much does it take to be fully operational on a new aircraft? As this is also new to IAF pilots.

Right now training of IAF pilots broadly comprises of three stages - Stage I is carried out on a basic trainer, the PC-7 Mark II - Stage II on slightly faster and more complex aircraft like the Kiran; and Stage III on the jet-engined, but sub-sonic BAE Systems Hawk AJT. These twin seater trainer aircrafts will will give IAF pilots an additional stage of training. Most of the advanced western air forces do not conduct four stages of training like IAF does; instead, they rely extensively on aircraft simulators. But the IAF, like some other air forces, has tended to prefer live flying. This will add another stage of training with a training period prescribed as per IAF's requirements to equip its pilots even better for flying the high performance fighters — the upgraded Jaguars, MiG-21s, 27s and 29s, the Mirage 2000s, HAL LCA Tejas Mark I and II the brutally powerful Su-30MKI, MMRCA Rafale and in future the FGFA/PAK-FA.

And moreover it is unlikely that MK-2 will have Twin seater/Trainer variants in future and MK-1 Twin seater/Trainer will be used as conversion trainer aircrafts for training MK-2 Pilots in future.

 

[Screambowl]

Right now training of IAF pilots broadly comprises of three stages - Stage I is carried out on a basic trainer, the PC-7 Mark II - Stage II on slightly faster and more complex aircraft like the Kiran; and Stage III on the jet-engined, but sub-sonic BAE Systems Hawk AJT. These twin seater trainer aircrafts will will give IAF pilots an additional stage of training. Most of the advanced western air forces do not conduct four stages of training like IAF does; instead, they rely extensively on aircraft simulators. But the IAF, like some other air forces, has tended to prefer live flying. This will add another stage of training with a training period prescribed as per IAF's requirements to equip its pilots even better for flying the high performance fighters — the upgraded Jaguars, MiG-21s, 27s and 29s, the Mirage 2000s, HAL LCA Tejas Mark I and II the brutally powerful Su-30MKI, MMRCA Rafale and in future the FGFA/PAK-FA.

And moreover it is unlikely that MK-2 will have Twin seater/Trainer variants in future and MK-1 Twin seater/Trainer will be used as conversion trainer aircrafts for training MK-2 Pilots in future.

But those pilots who are already operating on Jaguars , Su and Migs, how much time will they take to be fully operational on LCA? Since, there will be total change of system and controls, flying manoeuvrability, and other physics involved that a pilot should know about his aircraft.

 

[Chanakya's_Chant]

But those pilots who are already operating on Jaguars , Su and Migs, how much time will they take to be fully operational on LCA? Since, there will be total change of system and controls, flying manoeuvrability, and other physics involved that a pilot should know about his aircraft.

Not Sure about it - @sancho can help.

 

[The Great One]

According to certain media reports Indian Air force (IAF) most likely will place order for more 16 Tejas MK-1 Twin seater/Trainer aircrafts

LOL So the source of this news report is other news reports. Lets wait for an official IAF statement.
In the meanwhile Tejas has a production rate of 8/year (to be upgraded to 16 somewhere in the future) With production starting from 2016, we'd have to increase the rate to 16/year by 2017 itself if we are to fulfill all MK-1 demands (incl. these 16) by 2020 which looks too optimistic.

 

[Archie]

In my opinion,
Its a good Idea. This will keep Tejas Production going till 2020, and HAL can move to production of Tejas MK2 in 2020, instead of Having a 2 year production holiday in between.

IAF will eventually have to order 2 more Sqds of Tejas MK1, their sqd numbers are declining and with barely 3 MKI Sqds left for induction ,Rafale deal still stuck and the retirement of 200+ Mig 21/27 happening in the next 5-6 years. We could see a fall in number to below 600 from 650+ at present, unless IAF inducts more MK1, which are no doubt far superior to Mig 21, Mig 27 and Jaguars, which form half the fleet

 

[Chanakya's_Chant]

In my opinion,
Its a good Idea. This will keep Tejas Production going till 2020, and HAL can move to production of Tejas MK2 in 2020, instead of Having a 2 year production holiday in between.

IAF will eventually have to order 2 more Sqds of Tejas MK1, their sqd numbers are declining and with barely 3 MKI Sqds left for induction ,Rafale deal still stuck and the retirement of 200+ Mig 21/27 happening in the next 5-6 years. We could see a fall in number to below 600 from 650+ at present, unless IAF inducts more MK1, which are no doubt far superior to Mig 21, Mig 27 and Jaguars, which form half the fleet

IAF is looking for a private production line for LCA Mark II considering the delays in HAL's production line.

India Offers To Spend $12B To Break Monopoly | Defense News | defensenews.com

 

[Screambowl]

IAF is looking for a private production line for LCA Mark II considering the delays in HAL's production line.

India Offers To Spend $12B To Break Monopoly | Defense News | defensenews.com

and who has that capability in Indian firms?

 

[Chanakya's_Chant]

and who has that capability in Indian firms?

Many - Tata Group, Mahindra & Mahindra and Larsen and Toubro, are the most capable of setting up an additional military aircraft plant, either independently or in partnership with overseas firms.

 

[The_Sidewinder]

Fingers Crossed.

 

[Archie]

IAF is looking for a private production line for LCA Mark II considering the delays in HAL's production line.

India Offers To Spend $12B To Break Monopoly | Defense News | defensenews.com

Its actually a good idea.
In my opinion, either of Tata or Mahindra can approach Well known aircraft manufacturers for a JV,
Coz believe it or not a confirmed order for 200-250 Tejas MK2 is enticing enough, not to mention a follow on order for AMCA to replace Jaguars and Mirages in 2030s

I believe Boeing would be really interested in this deal. Since with the production of F-15 ending in 2016 and that of Super Hornets ending in 2020, they will be virtually out of the fighter market for the next 20 years.
They would be interested to remain a viable player in the fighter market and Joint production of LCA MK2 could help them in this regards.

 

[anant_s]

Not Sure about it - @sancho can help.

I think these are Operational Conversion Units (OCUs) that are used to get pilots accustomed to a particular type of Aircraft that will be used not only for training but also development of tactics suiting to LCA.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

But those pilots who are already operating on Jaguars , Su and Migs, how much time will they take to be fully operational on LCA? Since, there will be total change of system and controls, flying manoeuvrability, and other physics involved that a pilot should know about his aircraft.

Nothing much to it, for a Pilot making a change to the Tejas; if he has already been flying any of the aircraft that you have listed. If a Pilot is converting from the M2K, then he will find the transition easiest of all.... may be in all of 10 op hrs. Do not forget the principles of flying a jet are pretty much similar, apart from that Pilots now log enough Hrs on Simulators.

 

[Screambowl]

Nothing much to it, for a Pilot making a change to the Tejas; if he has already been flying any of the aircraft that you have listed. If a Pilot is converting from the M2K, then he will find the transition easiest of all.... may be in all of 10 op hrs. Do not forget the principles of flying a jet are pretty much similar, apart from that Pilots now log enough Hrs on Simulators.

So wouldn't that be easy if tejas is flown by new cadets on training. Till then senior ones can learn all the basics and limit of the aircraft. Plus it's going to take time for LCA to be completely absorbed in IAF.