Pakistan - India Air Force Clashes

[lulldapull]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1919894947433435504

This is all junk news Ghazi bhai......

Koi suboot nahi......

And like wise these hendu don't got zero saboot on our losses!

Jhoott jhoott jhootta narrative and nutthing else.

Delhi and mumbai evacuated oh allah oh pencho and likewise hum nay Isloo aur karachi nu tabah ker diya hae.....lol

Total junk news!

Both sides full of shit!

 

[The Terminator]

Pakistan is navigating a complex landscape of governance challenges, including bureaucratic inefficiencies, corruption, and political instability. These issues have significant implications for the country's economic development and political stability.

Streamlining Governance

Some experts suggest that streamlining federal and local governments could improve efficiency and accountability. This could involve reducing bureaucratic redundancies, enforcing financial oversight, and strengthening anti-corruption measures. A more transparent system would likely benefit the country.

Role of the Judiciary

An independent judiciary plays a crucial role in ensuring fair governance. Strengthening the judiciary's independence and capacity could help promote accountability and transparency.

*Decentralization and Local Governance*

Decentralization through smaller administrative units could enhance local governance, allowing regions to manage resources and development more effectively. This approach may lead to more responsive and accountable governance.

Institutional Reforms

Institutional reforms and greater public accountability are essential for promoting transparency and representation in governance. These reforms could help ensure that decision-making processes are more inclusive and responsive to the needs of citizens.

By exploring these potential reforms, Pakistan can work towards a more stable and effective governance system.

Your generic suggestions are the guidelines how the Govt structure should work. But in reality Pakistan is going into the opposite direction. Judiciary's role in Pakistan's has never been ideal, they have served the ruling class and dictators too. But nowadays what's happening is that judiciary is being systematically dismantled and its being converted into the "Yes Boss", boss is always right and you need to please the boss kind of dirty bureaucratic mess. Rather than being a separate, independent pillar of the state, higher judiciary has been systematically converted into the extension of the executive and the slave of the defacto most powerful office of the executive.

Yes judiciary had issues before, yes there's been moral and probably financial corruption too. Yes they issued verdicts to please the ruler of that time but Judiciary as an institution still was successfully somewhat maintaining and exercising it's independence until a few months ago. Rather than getting their interests served by the judiciary, the Pakistani establishment is now in the process of infiltrating and conquering the judicial system which started with the controversial 26th amendment in the constitution.

That would further deteriorate the already non-existent rule of law situation in Pakistan. Without rule of law you can't imagine any kind of progress, prosperity whatsoever. Zero investments, zero stability of any kind. Even the authoritarian regimes, monarchs maintain the rule of law for achieving peace, progress and prosperity within their kingdoms.


May be the main culprit of this situation is the February 2024 general election and establishment's bet on the loosing horse and their gross miscalculations about the expected elections outcome.
In Pakistan, a Govt can be effectively made and run with establishment's help if you have won around 35 to 40 percent of the seats. The rest of the gap can be filled through some tactics as it's been done for decades here. But you can't run the system by creating a Govt who has practically 10 to 15 percent seats in the parliament. That's why you have to rewrite the constitution and laws to forcefully run an already defunct system. That would have long lasting adverse effects on our society.

 

[The Terminator]

This is all junk news Ghazi bhai......

Koi suboot nahi......

And like wise these hendu don't got zero saboot on our losses!

Jhoott jhoott jhootta narrative and nutthing else.

Delhi and mumbai evacuated oh allah oh pencho and likewise hum nay Isloo aur karachi nu tabah ker diya hae.....lol

Total junk news!

Both sides full of shit!

You are wrong. Despite India's efforts to suppress the evidence of their failure, the world overall acknowledges the fact that IAF lost jets against PAF during their operation named sindoor. Even their air chief said while replying to a question that losses usually occur during a conflict/operation. So he himself acknowledges the loss without officially declaring them. There are leaked footages of the crashed jets, some of indian media also reported jets crashing in India but they were suppressed by the hindutva modi Govt. And what's your logic/reason behind that PAF can't shoot down indian jets including their best of the best Rafale? Is their any lack or a huge gap of capability or technical challenges then feel free to enlighten us!

 

[The Terminator]

This is all junk news Ghazi bhai......

Koi suboot nahi......

And like wise these hendu don't got zero saboot on our losses!

Jhoott jhoott jhootta narrative and nutthing else.

Delhi and mumbai evacuated oh allah oh pencho and likewise hum nay Isloo aur karachi nu tabah ker diya hae.....lol

Total junk news!

Both sides full of shit!

Now here's a French pilot's take on what could have been the reasons of rafale's poor performance against PAF. He has gone into details of the operation planning and execution.

And here's another video where he discusses the debrief of the Pakistani AVM did in ISPR press conference:

He has a clear bias towards his jet Rafale and IAF too. But still his analysis is logical.

 

[The Terminator]

Now it's time for Pakistani military to sort their issues out. Streamline the air defense. The responsibility of all the area and critical installations, infrastructure's air defence systems should be given to the PAF and Army should get out of it.

Our air defense should have adequate long range radars and SAM systems like HQ-9B. Should have lots of low level AESA radars spread across and integrated into the network. Lots of mobile short/medium range SAM systems and vehicle mounted CIWS systems. It would truly modernize and make a comprehensive multilayered air defence network. Local production of radars and short medium range SAM systems. It would protect our bases and large population centers from incoming missiles and drone swarms from point blank range upto hundreds of kilometers away.

Then there's a gap in Pakistan's offensive capability as well for years now. India has one of the densest multi layered air defense systems in the world with a mix of the best the money can buy and their indigenous ones. Like S400, S300, Barak, Patriot, Akash etc etc. They have Ballistic missile defense systems too. Pakistan needs to develop a complete suite of supersonic and hypersonic cruise missiles, both ground and air launched ones. Then we should also invest in hypersonic anti radiation and lock on jamming munitions. IMHO Pakistan has always been underestimating the air defense capabilities of the Indian military for decades. And we have been mindlessly just developing legacy ballistic missile tech while the modern warfare has changed entirely.

Invest in missiles offensive and defensive capabilities, drone warfare and loitering munitions. Nowadays number of tanks and huge military formations don't matter. Only small 4 man highly mobile team can operate in today's battlefields. Our focus should shift aways from the recruitment and grunt heavy military with bulky armored columns to more mobile, high tech military with greater and effective firepower.

 

[lulldapull]

Now it's time for Pakistani military to sort their issues out. Streamline the air defense. The responsibility of all the area and critical installations, infrastructure's air defence systems should be given to the PAF and Army should get out of it.

Our air defense should have adequate long range radars and SAM systems like HQ-9B. Should have lots of low level AESA radars spread across and integrated into the network. Lots of mobile short/medium range SAM systems and vehicle mounted CIWS systems. It would truly modernize and make a comprehensive multilayered air defence network. Local production of radars and short medium range SAM systems. It would protect our bases and large population centers from incoming missiles and drone swarms from point blank range upto hundreds of kilometers away.

Then there's a gap in Pakistan's offensive capability as well for years now. India has one of the densest multi layered air defense systems in the world with a mix of the best the money can buy and their indigenous ones. Like S400, S300, Barak, Patriot, Akash etc etc. They have Ballistic missile defense systems too. Pakistan needs to develop a complete suite of supersonic and hypersonic cruise missiles, both ground and air launched ones. Then we should also invest in hypersonic anti radiation and lock on jamming munitions. IMHO Pakistan has always been underestimating the air defense capabilities of the Indian military for decades. And we have been mindlessly just developing legacy ballistic missile tech while the modern warfare has changed entirely.

Invest in missiles offensive and defensive capabilities, drone warfare and loitering munitions. Nowadays number of tanks and huge military formations don't matter. Only small 4 man highly mobile team can operate in today's battlefields. Our focus should shift aways from the recruitment and grunt heavy military with bulky armored columns to more mobile, high tech military with greater and effective firepower.

Bilkul......this flare up has exposed our AD very badly. And our Ballistic missiles and cruise missiles were easily swatted down by Indian AD.

A study needs to be commissioned on analyzing these failures, and my personal recommendation would be to take an asymmetric approach from now on in dealing with India and its 10 times greater military budget.

First things first, our PAF has been exposed as a white elephant. It needs to be defunded right away, observing the evolving warfare trend in Ukraine and ME, where manned combat aviation has long been relegated to second line duties or at best just launch platforms for stand off guided munitions.

PAF should immediately get defunded. Aik dum fuzool institution its become now.

 

[Zob]

Bilkul......this flare up has exposed our AD very badly. And our Ballistic missiles and cruise missiles were easily swatted down by Indian AD.

A study needs to be commissioned on analyzing these failures, and my personal recommendation would be to take an asymmetric approach from now on in dealing with India and its 10 times greater military budget.

First things first, our PAF has been exposed as a white elephant. It needs to be defunded right away, observing the evolving warfare trend in Ukraine and ME, where manned combat aviation has long been relegated to second line duties or at best just launch platforms for stand off guided munitions.

PAF should immediately get defunded. Aik dum fuzool institution its become now.

Thanks for this great input. Apni Asli ID say aaao bhai. The indian ID.


If our Airforce was so useless why did India attack our air bases and not GHQ or Miltary battalions etc.

The world has accepted Rafale losses. India will or will not does not matter. They firstly denied losing a plane then when we showed Abhinandan they said he is ours BUT he shot down F16. When we debunked that theory too they still gave him Veer chakra for losing his plane and drinking tea and going back.


Indian media has been exposed their Ministry of Defence too and so on up the ladder goes the rot.

 

[mdmm]

Indian media saying that all their Rafales and jet fighters ,S-400 are safe.
But online news it says that PAF have killed 8 Indian jet fighters.
Kindly confirm how many Rafales were killed ,please ??

 

[Waiting]

Let's wait few days, India is prepared for new adventure... And this time there will be no cease-fire.. everything will be crystal clear

 

[lulldapull]

Thanks for this great input. Apni Asli ID say aaao bhai. The indian ID.


If our Airforce was so useless why did India attack our air bases and not GHQ or Miltary battalions etc.

The world has accepted Rafale losses. India will or will not does not matter. They firstly denied losing a plane then when we showed Abhinandan they said he is ours BUT he shot down F16. When we debunked that theory too they still gave him Veer chakra for losing his plane and drinking tea and going back.


Indian media has been exposed their Ministry of Defence too and so on up the ladder goes the rot.

Its a terrible situation for our military now and a real humiliation.

This has never happened before which is basically a complete rout!

One thing is for sure now that Pakistan will go for the asymmetric route and a lot of our legacy weapons will be going to the scrap heap. The PAF will quite possibly get defunded and a new search for improved AD, Ballistic/ Hypersonic missiles and drones will take precedence.

Evidently both the PAF and our AD failed miserably.

The scalp/ storm shadow flies in at 500 knts at tree top height and the Brahmos does Mach-3 at 10m to 20m (selected by operator).

Both are near impossible to detect, let alone shoot down.

The Maxar footage of damage inflicted on Pak bases is easily available from OSINT sources is quite compelling leading to many now coming around to accepting the reality with no counter footage/ satellite pics of damage to Indian bases targeted by Pakistan.

I wonder how our DG ISPR can sit on these media conferences with a straight face.

Yeah, we did take a beating this time around.......no shame in admitting it.

 

[ADNAN199057]

I would like to add a few points regarding this entire event. Despite limited resources, the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) emerged as a superior force.

1. When the Indian Air Force (IAF) initiated the conflict, the PAF immediately revised its rules of engagement and successfully engaged IAF aircraft in Beyond Visual Range (BVR) combat—striking targets within Indian territory.
2. During Operation Bunyan al-Marsoos, PAF fighter jets executed precise stand-off range strikes. Notably, the IAF did not attempt any interceptions or counterattacks of similar scale, despite having two days to prepare a response.
3. In the electromagnetic spectrum domain, the PAF maintained complete dominance.
4. A pressing question remains: why does the IAF continue to conceal its fighter jet losses? and openly claiming we shot down their, In today’s digital age, even downed drones are quickly documented and shared. How can the crash of a full-sized fighter jet be hidden? The PAF, on the other hand, openly acknowledged damage to one aircraft—a Saab 2000 parked inside a hangar—which is undergoing repairs and will soon return to service.
5. India strike the bases for which satellite footage is circulating at the last hours just before ceasefire, otherwise the response could have been provided.
6. Pakistan’s air defense system performed beyond expectations. With a 1,600 km-long boundary to protect, shooting down 88 drones—including advanced Harop loitering munitions—with a 90% success rate is a remarkable achievement.

In the next two months, the induction of the J-35 fighter and the HAVA SOJ (stand-off jammer) will further tilt the strategic balance in PAF's favor.

Now, regarding the BrahMos missile threat: multiple incoming missiles were successfully neutralized using soft-kill methods. Some of the missiles that hit areas like Kirana Hills were originally targeting the Sargodha Air Base.
Pakistan’s most effective response weapon systems in this scenario were the Fateh-1 and Fateh-2 guided multiple launch rocket systems (GMLRS)—a capability currently unmatched by Indian forces.

This is now a wreckage of MiG-29 UPG as claimed,

 

[lulldapull]

I believe with every man n his dog holding up a smart phone today would have captured any hint of an indian loss on their side even. A lot of our foolish individuals in Pakistan upon being prodded by the ISPR created fake memes using footage/ pics of IAF crashes from years ago into creating a narrative and it has miserably failed.

I am disappointed to say the least.

Tom Cooper and many others in the military aviation industry have already given their verdict.

 

[FourMikeEcho]

The air engagement was a failure for India, regardless of how many planes got shot down.

I would like to see proof of Pakistani claims of attacking the S-400 node and other installations. A lot of GEO reports, but by now (or Sept 7th) would be good to see some satellite imagery. Nothing thus far. That would tell us if it was a draw at least.

 

[ADNAN199057]

The air engagement was a failure for India, regardless of how many planes got shot down.

I would like to see proof of Pakistani claims of attacking the S-400 node and other installations. A lot of GEO reports, but by now (or Sept 7th) would be good to see some satellite imagery. Nothing thus far. That would tell us if it was a draw at least.

Yes, I am also waiting for detail satellite imagery, in terms of post analysis with satellite imagery, Pakistan armed forces are lagging, until now images should have been there. definitely there were hits at the Indian bases as evident form the videos, still the footage strengthen the claims.

 

[Zob]

Its a terrible situation for our military now and a real humiliation.

This has never happened before which is basically a complete rout!

One thing is for sure now that Pakistan will go for the asymmetric route and a lot of our legacy weapons will be going to the scrap heap. The PAF will quite possibly get defunded and a new search for improved AD, Ballistic/ Hypersonic missiles and drones will take precedence.

Evidently both the PAF and our AD failed miserably.

The scalp/ storm shadow flies in at 500 knts at tree top height and the Brahmos does Mach-3 at 10m to 20m (selected by operator).

Both are near impossible to detect, let alone shoot down.

The Maxar footage of damage inflicted on Pak bases is easily available from OSINT sources is quite compelling leading to many now coming around to accepting the reality with no counter footage/ satellite pics of damage to Indian bases targeted by Pakistan.

I wonder how our DG ISPR can sit on these media conferences with a straight face.

Yeah, we did take a beating this time around.......no shame in admitting it.

come from your real indian ID please then we will talk