Chinese Navy Growth: Massive Expansion Of Important Shipyard

[TheSolution]

That's a lot of money - I doubt they can pay it back easily...

Nigeria is full of corruption, they are probably being paid off to accept these massive loans and development projects, which increase Chinese influence and power in that country

Seems like similar situation may be possible in Pakistan, but our situation is a little more complicated with heavy Western involvement of certain parties

 

[FuturePAF]

That's a lot of money - I doubt they can pay it back easily...

They have oil. A deal paid back in a fixed amount of oil per year (at a decent discount) for a set number of years could work. $4-5 Billion worth of loans for 20 years could work. Nigeria produces 1.57 Million barrels a day.

At current prices, factoring some discounts, that could 50-75 million barrels of oil a year. Ok about 10% of their daily output.

If Nigeria uses the rail network along with its growing population to become a manufacturing hub, the rail network would be a worthwhile investment.

For $80-100 Billion, Nigeria could put in a deal where they get ToT on all the rail technologies and manufacturing, and could use their rail network as the starting point to link themselves with the rest of west Africa and Central Africa. They could become the supplier of petrochemical based products in the region, and use their rail network to keep prices lower then competitors shipping into neighboring countries via trucks.

But this is a topic for a separate thread. The knock on effects of this Chinese shipyard and a larger Chinese navy on global trade can only be compared to the voyages of Zheng He.

 

[MH.Yang]

Nigeria is full of corruption, they are probably being paid off to accept these massive loans and development projects, which increase Chinese influence and power in that country

Seems like similar situation may be possible in Pakistan, but our situation is a little more complicated with heavy Western involvement of certain parties

Nigeria is better than India on the international integrity index. And Nigeria has oil.

 

[Nan Yang]

It was just reported today China is loan Nigeria up to $80-100 Billion to modernize their Railways. Railways across Africa will open up a lot of opportunities for Chinese projects and sales as that the population in Africa is set to double in the next 25-30 years.

They may be considered a liability now but 50 years later it won't be a liability, industrialized Africa would be a huge asset for China in the future.

It was just reported today China is loan Nigeria up to $80-100 Billion to modernize their Railways. Railways across Africa will open up a lot of opportunities for Chinese projects and sales as that the population in Africa is set to double in the next 25-30 years.

Africa is huge

 

[FuturePAF]

Africa is huge


View attachment 825062

All the more reason to use the most cost effective means to transport goods. The sooner countries build up their infrastructure the sooner they can maximize the benefits of their resources.

The railways built in Ethiopia and Kenya are good models for how a Chinese built railway would operate. Linking the major ports in Africa (many build by the Chinese?) with railways would reduce the costs of goods and services and improve the standard of living for a lot of people in Africa. While there is a risk for corruption by local elites demanding undue compensation, on the whole, these kinds of projects would level the playing field for local Nigerian entrepreneurs.

BTW, that’s a great image to show just how big Africa really is, and that it conceivably could really carry nearly a similar sized population as Asia does today. Asia has 4.5 Billion people today and Africa only has 1.2 Billion people. A population increase of 1-2 billion is possible with improvements in agriculture and other industries.

 

[mili]

It was just reported today China is loan Nigeria up to $80-100 Billion to modernize their Railways. Railways across Africa will open up a lot of opportunities for Chinese projects and sales as that the population in Africa is set to double in the next 25-30 years.

That's a lot of money - I doubt they can pay it back easily...

All businesses have risks, holding on to dollar & businesses with the anglos are more risky than dealing with Nigerians.

 

[FuturePAF]

All businesses have risks, holding on to dollar & businesses with the anglos are more risky than dealing with Nigerians.

Building diversified supply chains (in both directions, import and export) is the best way to maximize resilience and minimize dependence on a limited number of markets.

If the rest of the world grows faster and China plays the largest supporting role, it can also reap a lot of benefit immediately and in terms of long term diversification of markets and sources of raw materials.

When local people see the benefit of the new infrastructure and the business opportunities for them, they themselves will have a vested interest in safeguarding it and ensuring its growth, and will build the cross border mechanisms to ensure smooth flow of trade across the continent via rail. Interdependence is the best way to mitigate risk as has been seen everywhere else globalization has decrease the chances of conflicts in order to maintain improving standards of living. We need only look at how stable the EU has been in terms of no internal military conflict since the inception of the precursor European Coal and Steel community just after WW2.

 

[ZY-CN-CA]

这些只是基础设施项目，之后中国将迅速使非洲工业化。想象一下中国控制下的工业化非洲。

中国工厂着火，至少 38 人在缅甸政变以来最致命的一天丧生https://edition.cnn.com/2021/03/15/asia/myanmar-deaths-chinese-factories-intl-hnk/index.html​

这样的新闻越来越多。
欧美轻松掌控全球和本地媒体
低成本颜色革命
中国价值数亿美元的受损工厂
这一切都发生在 BRI 中。
中国政府的外交政策是不干涉当地政府。导致一系列巨大的损失。
中国改善了当地的基础设施，帮助引进了工厂并繁荣了商业，但经常遭受破坏。
当地的欧美工厂完全安全。
心里难过，不知道以后政府会有什么好的解决办法

 

[_NOBODY_]

Chinese factories set on fire and at least 38 killed in Myanmar's deadliest day since couphttps://edition.cnn.com/2021/03/15/asia/myanmar-deaths-chinese-factories-intl-hnk/index.html​

more and more NEWS like this.
Europe and the United States can easily control global and local media
low-cost color revolution
Damaged factories worth hundreds of millions of dollars in China
This all happened in BRI .
Chinese government's foreign policy is not to interfere with the local government. lead to a series of huge losses.
China has improved infrastructure locally, helped bring in factories and prospered commerce, but often suffered damage.
European and American factories in the local area are completely safe.
I feel sad, but I don't know what good solution the government will have in the future
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/03/15/asia/myanmar-deaths-chinese-factories-intl-hnk/index.html
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/03/15/asia/myanmar-deaths-chinese-factories-intl-hnk/index.html
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/03/15/asia/myanmar-deaths-chinese-factories-intl-hnk/index.html

China must show patience and resilience, BRI must succeed at all costs. The best that China can do here is assist these countries in matters of security.

 

[MajesticPug]

Chinese factories set on fire and at least 38 killed in Myanmar's deadliest day since couphttps://edition.cnn.com/2021/03/15/asia/myanmar-deaths-chinese-factories-intl-hnk/index.html​

more and more NEWS like this.
Europe and the United States can easily control global and local media
low-cost color revolution
Damaged factories worth hundreds of millions of dollars in China
This all happened in BRI .
Chinese government's foreign policy is not to interfere with the local government. lead to a series of huge losses.
China has improved infrastructure locally, helped bring in factories and prospered commerce, but often suffered damage.
European and American factories in the local area are completely safe.
I feel sad, but I don't know what good solution the government will have in the future
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/03/15/asia/myanmar-deaths-chinese-factories-intl-hnk/index.html
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/03/15/asia/myanmar-deaths-chinese-factories-intl-hnk/index.html
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/03/15/asia/myanmar-deaths-chinese-factories-intl-hnk/index.html

China doesn't have to interfere another country's internal affairs by requesting these countries protect Chinese citizens and investments. If not, withdraw the funding, investment, and demand loan payments upfront. China must come out of its shell. It must use the tools available to protect its interests in a way that's not damaging to its partnership.

 

[FuturePAF]

China must show patience and resilience, BRI must succeed at all costs. The best that China can do here is assist these countries in matters of security.

It seems like everyone is recognizing that who ever is will to take the risk to make the loans is likely to reap stable long term returns, if the projects succeed.

With a lot of the soft power of the west, in language, and culture, and large African Diasporas, the fact that China is out competing them is a shame.

Hopefully, the world will focus on fair competition (in which the west has deeper pockets and deeper soft power), but just in case it gets like it was in the Cold War era efforts to win influence, it seems China is getting ready with a large navy, to a level only last seen when the Soviet Navy sailed the waves at its peak in the 60s and 70s.

 

[Wergeland 2.0]

One wonders how many more boats China could produce every year if the defence budget was increased to only 5% of GDP.

Ridiculous to think about

 

[FuturePAF]

One wonders how many more boats China could produce every year if the defence budget was increased to only 5% of GDP.

Ridiculous to think about

It’s a fine balance between defense speeding and investment in one’s economy. The limiting factor may jot be the number of ships they can turn out, but Manning and maintenance for those ships. At sole point it becomes more of a burden then a strength. One need only look at the 1000 ship navy concept proposed by the USN a few decades ago. They chose to go for quality over quantity and found other offset strategies to mitigate the rise of a rival navy power for as long as possible.

 

[Shotgunner51]

Hopefully, the world will focus on fair competition (in which the west has deeper pockets and deeper soft power), but just in case it gets like it was in the Cold War era efforts to win influence, it seems China is getting ready with a large navy, to a level only last seen when the Soviet Navy sailed the waves at its peak in the 60s and 70s.

Money printing rights to be exact.

 

[FuturePAF]

Money printing rights to be exact.

Sure, but they found a way to make it happen. An entrenched power isn’t going five way to a rising power with doing all it can; Thucydides Trap.