Questions for those who opposed Afghan Jihad

[Zarvan]

I have few questions for those who opposed Zia Ul Haq strategy of starting Afghan Jihad and equipping Mujahideen to fight and destroy USSR.

1. What you think we should have done ??? What would have been your plan and strategy to deal with a Super Power like USSR ???
2. Do you really believe that USSR would have only stayed in Afghanistan and not try to capture parts of Pakistan if it would have not faced resistance and its plans would have succeeded ???

 

[jamahir]

Although Zarvan has directed the points at Pakistanis I have a few points.

1. I want to ask @vostok how many people in Russia and other former USSR republics believe that it was the Afghanistan war that destroyed USSR ( as claimed by Zarvan ) ?

2. Zarvan, why should USSR and Pakistan not have been allies ? It would have been the case if Faiz Ahmed Faiz's coup attempt in 1951 had succeeded.

 

[YeBeWarned]

I think OP should go ask the families of those people who lost their sons , daughters , father , mother , brothers and sister because of the wave of Extremism which was sowed by Zia ul NaHaq ..

 

[Zarvan]

I think OP should go ask the families of those people who lost their sons , daughters , father , mother , brothers and sister because of the wave of Extremism which was sowed by Zia ul NaHaq ..

The real wave came after Musharraf and it came due to his policies and please answer my questions because your posts make me realize either you don't have answer or you were okay if Pakistan was also captured by USSR.

 

[Cliftonite]

While I don't like Zia and I blame him for LeJ and TTP and the radicalisation of Pakistan, what he did in the Afghan War was 100% warranted. Does anyone know what a Western border with the Soviet Union and eastern border with India would have meant? It would have meant guaranteed destruction of Pakistan.

 

[YeBeWarned]

The real wave came after Musharraf and it came due to his policies and please answer my questions because your posts make me realize either you don't have answer or you were okay if Pakistan was also captured by USSR.

Nope, The seeds were sowed in the times of Zia, its a fact that is accepted by much of respected people who studied the history of Pakistan, Musharraf was put in a difficult position under which you or anyone else would have given up , America lost 3000 people , their mainland was attacked after years ... They were like the mad Elephant that would tremble everything or everyone in its path, so Musharraf made the right decision to join them.

Now the thing is that as soon as he joined and give AQ members to America TTP starts their attack in Pakistan , what does it tell you ? They were there and just waiting for a reason for dumb people to justify their actions and that's exactly what they did ..

As for your question, Its past so there is no point in arguing and from a Probabilistic point of view one can argue that USSR might not invade Pakistan , and it just a irrational Fear Pakistan has .

The other question, Pakistan should have fought this battle and trained people inside Pakistan, while America is busy with USSR , Pakistan should have took money from them and fortify the Border , fence it etc like this we might reduce the cost of lives we pay after the Afghan war full brought inside Pakistan .

 

[vostok]

Although Zarvan has directed the points at Pakistanis I have a few points.

1. I want to ask @vostok how many people in Russia and other former USSR republics believe that it was the Afghanistan war that destroyed USSR ( as claimed by Zarvan ) ?

First time I've heard it here on PDF. There are so many USSR destroyers from really might USA to some miserable nationalist movements in former republics. But in reality it was us, Russian people who closed USSR project. Our state strongly needed another renewal, new form of Russia had to emerge, new cycle had to begin.

 

[jamahir]

First time I've heard it here on PDF. There are so many USSR destroyers from really might USA to some miserable nationalist movements in former republics. But in reality it was us, Russian people who closed USSR project. Our state strongly needed another renewal, new form of Russia had to emerge, new cycle had to begin.

@Zarvan

While I don't like Zia and I blame him for LeJ and TTP and the radicalisation of Pakistan, what he did in the Afghan War was 100% warranted. Does anyone know what a Western border with the Soviet Union and eastern border with India would have meant? It would have meant guaranteed destruction of Pakistan.

As I asked earlier, why couldn't Pakistan have been at peace with USSR and socialist Afghanistan ? About India, if the previous statement would have come true, perhaps India would have also become governed with an even more USSR-friendly government. As it is, in the 90s, the Indian government gave refuge to President Najibullah's family.

This would have led to peace between India and Pakistan.

But no, it is not for realpolitik that Zia ul Haq helped destroy Afghanistan. It was to appease the mullahs in Pakistan who wanted to wage war against the "Godless" socialists in Afghanistan which of course meant, as it always has happened, that he was helped by Western governments.

 

[Lincoln]

I have few questions for those who opposed Zia Ul Haq strategy of starting Afghan Jihad and equipping Mujahideen to fight and destroy USSR.

1. What you think we should have done ??? What would have been your plan and strategy to deal with a Super Power like USSR ???
2. Do you really believe that USSR would have only stayed in Afghanistan and not try to capture parts of Pakistan if it would have not faced resistance and its plans would have succeeded ???

USSR was called in by the Communist government in Afghanistan at the time. They had no interests in Pakistan. However, it is difficult to say how history would've been different if Pakistan did not go to war, because it was a part of the American alliance, and it received funds, weapons and training. But who knows.

 

[Cliftonite]

As I asked earlier, why couldn't Pakistan have been at peace with USSR and socialist Afghanistan ? About India, if the previous statement would have come true, perhaps India would have also become governed with an even more USSR-friendly government. As it is, in the 90s, the Indian government gave refuge to President Najibullah's family.

This would have led to peace between India and Pakistan.

But no, it is not for realpolitik that Zia ul Haq helped destroy Afghanistan. It was to appease the mullahs in Pakistan who wanted to wage war against the "Godless" socialists in Afghanistan which of course meant, as it always has happened, that he was helped by Western governments.

The godless communist angle was a factor. But with Soviet Union in our backyard, we'd be nothing but a vassal state of them. It was warm water ports USSR was after all along. India and Pakistan can never be friends unfortunately because of the Kashmir issue. Ideally I'd have liked the Northwest corner of India to be a corrider of peace between the two countries, linking them together. There are too many cultural similarities in that area that link the two, the Muhajirs can relate to Western UP, Pak Punjabis can relate to Indian Punjabis, Rajputs in Southern Punjab can relate to Rajasthan.

 

[Yankee-stani]

First time I've heard it here on PDF. There are so many USSR destroyers from really might USA to some miserable nationalist movements in former republics. But in reality it was us, Russian people who closed USSR project. Our state strongly needed another renewal, new form of Russia had to emerge, new cycle had to begin.

In the the Pakistani context and the way history in this country views the Soviet involvement in Afghanistan its we defeated the Russian bear and Soviets lost there but history is complex tbh and you are right I blame Perestroika under Gorbachev and idiot Ethnic nationalists like Yeltsin for breaking the USSR but I think the USSR image as a defender of the third world and anti imperialism took a beating during the Soviet Afghan war and Sino Soviet spilt

 

[Naofumi]

First time I've heard it here on PDF. There are so many USSR destroyers from really might USA to some miserable nationalist movements in former republics. But in reality it was us, Russian people who closed USSR project. Our state strongly needed another renewal, new form of Russia had to emerge, new cycle had to begin.

But the new cycle was disastrous at least till Yeltsin era.

 

[Mrc]

In 1979 having 10 times bigger india on one border and 1000 times bigger ussr on two opposite borders of a non nuclear country was un assailable position
Some thing needed to be done and it was

What happened in 2000s was failure of 90s not the original plan.

In 90s all lost interest in affghanistan and terror groups were let to run amock

 

[Naofumi]

USSR image as a defender of the third world and anti imperialism took a beating during the Soviet Afghan war and Sino Soviet spilt

And internal massacres and Russian domination? Or aggression towards China when Japan was ravaging there too?

 

[Yankee-stani]

Afghanistan was always a s..thole and the Pasthun nationalist types for loy shoy Afghanistan were always a pain still a pain since American involvement I laugh at the Pakistanis thinking they Afghanistan will be brother nation when they hate us with guts but they are a pathetic country army cant win against Taliban all I hope to see is under a Taliban government I personally think their ideology sucks but no one is good or angelic there so no choice is that we get pipelines,a stable country and trade routes to Eurasia but Afghans being scrummy and always fighting makes me cautiously doubt that

And internal massacres and Russian domination? Or aggression towards China when Japan was ravaging there too?

Of course not everything was rosy all countries current and historic have skeletons in closet but the USSR put a check on US expansion and rightfully gets its credit for fighting Nazi Germany in regards to China there in middle of a civil war like Syria and Afghanistan