5000 year ancient hidden city of Tulaja discovered In Salt Range Pakistan

[Taimoor Khan]

I guess, it's just that accepting the fact that Pakistanis are local will kill the argument that "Pakistanis are Arabs" and hence "ruled India for 1000 years ?"

If Pakistanis accept that they are locals then they will also have to accept that they too were ruled for 1000 years ? Then they got converted to Islam ?

It seems Pakistanis are ashamed of their local roots (not you - and correct me if I am wrong). Most of them are wannabe Arabs who wanna have nothing to do with their
roots. At least I see it that way.

Moreover, accepting that Pakistanis are local will also mean that their ancestors were once Hindus or Buddhists - which in return will jeopardize the Two Nation Theory (in a way). May be that's unacceptable to many of you guys?

Anyway, more such excavations will continue to remind the present day Pakistanis of who they originally were. Hopefully such excavations shouldn't create even more identity crisis out there.

Good day

Self concocted delusions and perhaps the general poor knowledge that has been passed to Indian masses by their government, that's all I can see in your rants.

How this idea work that "Pakistani are arab" hence ruled over Indians for thousands year? Pakistanis don't have to be Arab to rule you lot over. Infact Indus has always been dominant force in this region specially over Ganges civilization .

For your education, there is no conversation in Islam, one just revert to it , like our ancestors did through the teaching of saints and preachers who's graves dot our sacred land from North to south, as opposed to the false idea that somehow Islam spread through sword in our lands. Afterall you are talking about a nation who smashed the most powerful military might of its time, Alexander.

We ruled you lot in times of Indus empire and then rule over your gangiyates when we revert back to Islam. It will become easy for you if you understand this domination from Indus vs gangaland prespective.

Pakistani, most of them at this point in time are not interested in their own civilization perhaps due to state itself not interested. But it's only matter of time when they will owe to it and start looking into this region and beyond through what their ancestors achieved in past and how they made the ancient Pakistan, greater Pakistan, the unchallenged might of the world.

I can assure you that our ancestors who build Indus empire were neither Hindus or Buddhists, pagans at best. Those two religions were not even born at that time. Two Nation Theory was proposed in a era where all its arguments were valid and now moving forward, not only religion which separates us the Pakistanis and you Indians but our own respective civilizations and our roots. We, the people of Indus, you, the gangiyates. Hence two nations theory proven.

The desperation of Indians to somehow hijack the Indus as their own is frankly speaking quite pathetic and show their own identity crisis. Maybe the primitive Ganges civilization and being associated with it does not fit in with the flase bravado and sense of grandure that has been feed into feeble Indian minds by their state. We call such group of people the "glory hunters".

Enjoy

One big disadvantage we have is that the Indus script has not been deciphered. Unlike the Egyptians and Mesopotamians, we simply do not have as much insight into the Indus people due to not being able to understand what they wrote down.

Yes the Indus script is a big unknown. But what I was trying to imply that a civilization which was three times bigger and powerful then both Babylon and Egypt combined, for it to vanish from human history the way it did, it has to suffer a colossal and sudden event.

 

[Kuru]

Never heard this "Pakistanis are Arabs". Wonder where you get your info on Pak in Gangadesh?

A simple Google search could've done the trick; but anyway - you're welcome

For example, families and clans that had emerged from within the South Asian region began to claim that their ancestors actually came from Arabia.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1032519

The reason I am writing on this issue is that we, the Pakistanis, suffer from the effects of an identity crisis. Most of the people in our country try to associate themselves with the Arab culture and traditions with the assumption that they would become more pious Muslims while doing so.

https://nation.com.pk/20-Jun-2015/we-re-pakistanis-first-muslims-second-and-arabs-never

It seems Pakistanis face identify crisis even when abroad. Check this one:

Some Pakistanis – at least in London where I am – pretend that they have Arab heritage.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entr...sire-to-look-arab_us_597784d5e4b0c6616f7ce59a

You see, I am not claiming anything. These are the Pakistanis who have written these articles and many of them are for Pakistan's own newspapers.

That's why I said in my previous post that I hope such excavations (Tulaja) will help Pakistanis to deal with their identity crisis. But it seems you got me wrong.

Good luck

We ruled you lot in times of Indus empire and then rule over your gangiyates when we revert back to Islam.

Indus empire ? What was that again ? Which part of Indian Subcontinent did this "Indus Empire" rule exactly?

And I see a lot of contradiction in your post. You claim you were locals, then you claim you ruled India from Indus (!). Then you claim you ruled India after converting to Islam ? Does this make sense even to you ?

I guess you should read more about your own roots, culture and history. This might help you clear any confusion you have there.

The ancient site such as Tulaja couldn't bring the desired results after all. Maybe the Government of Pakistan should try to declare Tulaja as World Heritage site. Maybe that's when more and more Pakistani is will come to know about it and they will eventually find their roots. I have my hopes. good day.

 

[Kuru]

Heck, even your language (Hindi) is a bastardised version of our language (Urdu).

Urdu is an Indian language

 

[Men in Green]

Probably they moved away bcz lake of water.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Never heard this "Pakistanis are Arabs". Wonder where you get your info on Pak in Gangadesh?

He and others like him pull these arguments from their massive Vedic curry burnt arseholes.

 

[Rahil khan]

I guess, it's just that accepting the fact that Pakistanis are local will kill the argument that "Pakistanis are Arabs" and hence "ruled India for 1000 years ?"

If Pakistanis accept that they are locals then they will also have to accept that they too were ruled for 1000 years ? Then they got converted to Islam ?

It seems Pakistanis are ashamed of their local roots (not you - and correct me if I am wrong). Most of them are wannabe Arabs who wanna have nothing to do with their roots. At least I see it that way.

Moreover, accepting that Pakistanis are local will also mean that their ancestors were once Hindus or Buddhists - which in return will jeopardize the Two Nation Theory (in a way). May be that's unacceptable to many of you guys?

Anyway, more such excavations will continue to remind the present day Pakistanis of who they originally were. Hopefully such excavations shouldn't create even more identity crisis out there.

Good day

You are exaggerating here bro. You cannot project the perceptions of some people here in minority as a reality. Arabs have entirely different culture and mentality from South Asians like us.

 

[Hamza913]

Urdu is an Indian language

No, it was made by Muslims after we made Hindustan our b!tch. You only have to look at Urdu to see it's not a Gangadeshi language.

 

[Basel]

Never heard this "Pakistanis are Arabs". Wonder where you get your info on Pak in Gangadesh?

Indians make things themselves and believe that other think that.

 

[Kuru]

You only have to look at Urdu to see it's not a Gangadeshi language.

I'm happy that an Indian language is a national language for Pakisranis, and you are ok with it

You are exaggerating here bro. You cannot project the perceptions of some people here in minority as a reality. Arabs have entirely different culture and mentality from South Asians like us.

I apologise if I made a generalization. Of course these Pakistanis - who believe that they are Arabs - are in minority in Pakistan.

Not all Pakistanis are suffering from identity crisis. Not all Pakistanis believe that "they have come from outside and ruled India for 1000 Years." I wanna believe that majority Pakistanis know that their ancestors were once Hindus or buddhists.

I absolutely agree with you that you are locals and your culture - the South Asian culture - is very different from Arabian culture. I am so glad that you believe that and hope that guys like you will spread the real history in Pakistan. All the best

 

[Hamza913]

I'm happy that an Indian language is a national language for Pakisranis, and you are ok with it

No matter how much you cry, it will never be a Hindustani language. It was made by us Muslims when we conquered Hindustan, which is why it looks nothing like any of your languages and has many loanwords from languages such as Farsi, Arabic, Chagatai and Pashto (all together this makes up roughly 25-50% of Urdu's vocabulary).

 

[Kuru]

It was made by us Muslims when we conquered Hindustan,

I thought you said you were locals. Now suddenly you became conquerers !!

See, this is what the identity crisis is all about !

 

[Hamza913]

ruled India for 1000 Years." I wanna believe that majority Pakistanis know that their ancestors were once Hindus or buddhists.

Muslims in Pakistan/Hindustan are a mix between local people and foreign Islamic conquerors in terms of admixture:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3163234

"The study showed that the Muslim Gujjars differ significantly from their counterpart, the Hindu Gujjars"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19809480

"Overall, our results support a model according to which the spread of Islam in India was predominantly cultural conversion associated with minor but still detectable levels of gene flow from outside, primarily from Iran and Central Asia"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20067368

"we observed a certain degree of genetic contribution from Iran to both Muslim populations"

https://www.nature.com/articles/ejhg2009168

"Altogether, haplogroups restricted to the Indian Subcontinent were observed at an average frequency of 63% in Indian Muslim populations as compared with 74% among the non-Muslim neighbors The average contribution of haplogroups of West Eurasian origin to Indian Muslims was 18%, which is not significantly higher than the value observed in non-Muslim populations (14%). "

"The sub-Saharan African- and Arabian-specific paternal lineages E1b1b1a and J*(xJ2) were present in three Muslim populations (Indian Shia, Indian Sunni and Mappla) with an average frequency of 2 and 8%, respectively, whereas they were rare or absent among non-Muslim populations. Haplogroup G, which is common in the Middle East and rare or absent in Indian non-Muslim populations, was also present in three Muslim populations with an average overall frequency of 5%."

"L0a2a2 lineage has been detected previously among the Sindhi population of Pakistan"

Even if one does not have foreign ancestry, these Islamic Empires were multi-ethnic, with a significant proportion of their military/administration being from the region, e.g Qasim had large numbers of Gujjars, Sindhis and Baluchis fight alongside him, Ghaznavi and Ghori employed large numbers of Pashtuns and Punjabis into his army, Abdali's army was dominated by Pashtuns and Baluchis, etc.

Many of these conquerors themselves were from Pakistan, such as Ahmed Shah Abdali (a Pashtun from Multan), Shah Jahan (a Mughal emperor from Lahore), Sikander Shah Mir (a Sultan from Kashmir), Mir Malagh Khan (a Baluchi military leader), Mukarrab Khan (a Punjabi Nawab), Sarang Khan (a Punjabi Sultan), Ali Sher Rai (a Sultan from Gilgit-Baltistan), Akbar (a Mughal emperor from Sindh), Shabhaz Khan (a Punjabi general under the Mughal Empire), etc.

Many others who weren't from Pakistan were also from the same ethnic group as many Pakistanis. You've had the Pashtun Ghurids, Khilijis, Suris, the Rajput Gujarat Sultanate, Tipu had a Punjabi grandfather, etc.

We're also Muslim, and these empires were fiercly proud of their Islamic identity above all else.

No matter which way you spin it, yes, we did conquer Hindustan during the Islamic conquests.

I thought you said you were locals. Now suddenly you became conquerers !!

See, this is what the identity crisis is all about !

You don't seem to understand that people can have ancestry from more than one source, pity. I thought I was dealing with someone who at least had a basic understanding of Biology and historical migrations.

 

[Mamluk]

I thought you said you were locals. Now suddenly you became conquerers !!

See, this is what the identity crisis is all about !

Locals in our land, Conquerors in your land. How's that so hard to understand? Don't forget the spanking you got from guys like Sher Shah, etc.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

Indus empire ? What was that again ? Which part of Indian Subcontinent did this "Indus Empire" rule exactly?

And I see a lot of contradiction in your post. You claim you were locals, then you claim you ruled India from Indus (!). Then you claim you ruled India after converting to Islam ? Does this make sense even to you ?

I guess you should read more about your own roots, culture and history. This might help you clear any confusion you have there.

The ancient site such as Tulaja couldn't bring the desired results after all. Maybe the Government of Pakistan should try to declare Tulaja as World Heritage site. Maybe that's when more and more Pakistani is will come to know about it and they will eventually find their roots. I have my hopes. good day.

First of all , there is nothing like "Indian subcontinent" from historical perspective. The British came, ruled for mere a century and imposed this specification for this region, na it doesn't work like that. This region is divided between two civilizations , Indus and Ganges, hence the two Nation Theory, as I mentioned in my last reply to you.

Indus civilization = Indus empire, spanning over thousand and thousands of years just like Nile civilization was or the Egyptian empire. The whole of "current" western India, the belt of Kashmir down to Gujarat, Iran, Afghanistan and some southern parts of Turkmenistan, all these lands were the realm of our Indus empire which our ancestors build and sustained for as long as they did. History can be twisted , not archeology. It's not really a rocket science O you gangiyate. We dominated you, the habitants of Ganges planes for far longer period before we reverted to Islam then after. That "thousand years rule" over you is insignificant as to what we did to you for mellinia after mellinia. We gave you your faith, we gave you your cults, we divided your society in hierarchy, your brahmins are our childern.

Our roots are in our scared land, Pakistan, the land of pure, by lineage and by civilization, going all the way to humanity first civilization right here in Indus plains.

 

[pzfz]

Speaking of history, I have my doubts as to put any ancient civilization in South Asia/Indus Valley up against Mesopotamia or Egypt in terms of development, literature, technology, culture etc 5000 years ago. If they were so advanced they wouldn't have disappeared into oblivion leaving behind no traces of their language or religion.