Pakistan arrests opposition leaders as election draws near

[Neo]

Will Pakistan never be a democracy?

Pakistan is a semi-democracy and it will remain so for a long time to come. To understand the polictical culture in Pakistan one has to look into the demografic and cultural structure of the society.
Sixty years after the independance Pakistan still is a feudal society, comon man doesn't get to chose the leader, its done by the landlord in major part of the rural area's or ca 60% of the total population.

We will never become a true or full democracy untill we terminate the feudalism in all layers of the population.

Just my 2 cents..

 

[Always Neutral]

Actually its very apt observation. The Gen M could have unpopularly got rid of these symptoms and retired and left a Pakistan which would have proudly walked into the 21st Century as a true democracy but fate did not allow him to do it. Anyway the partial freedom of the media and now the judiciary are two positive things which will remain long after the Gen has gone and are probably irreversible.

 

[Spring Onion]

Correct Always.

Had you guys noticed that after mixed and confusing signals from SC and weakning opposition what lies ahead of us ???

Either Martial Law if SC takes tough stance against Musharraf or president in Uniform for next five years indeed with blessing of BB.

And last but not the least There are reports that Lawyers have fielded their candidat justic (retd) Wajihuddin for presidential elections

 

[Bull]

Anyway the partial freedom of the media and now the judiciary are two positive things which will remain long after the Gen has gone and are probably irreversible.

I do agree that Mushraff has given lots of space fo the media and to some extend the judiciary. But i dont think its irreversible. When the constitution itself can be altered to ones agenda, a lot depends on how long mushraff stays on power and who succeed's him.

 

[BATMAN]

People get a chance to vote... That's democracy.

Dear Asim you are right but in Pakistan people vote a lot.

1- Parlimentry government elections.
2- Provincial government elections.
3- Local government elections.
5- Elections for minorities.
6- American style Referendums.
7- Elections for prime minister.
8- Elections for President.
9- Elections in all govt. institutions.
10- Elections for various industrial associations
11- Elections for various bussiness associations.
12- Elections in Judiciary.
13- Elections in Press.
14- Elections in markets.
15- Elections of housing societies.

All above and many more such elections make Pakistan a dictator society.

Do you remember how cement association of Pakistan, made govt. to beg for bringing down the prices of cement to very fair international level.
Same goes with flour mill association. Rickshaw driver association, Gas station association, Milk producer association, Print media union, lawyers union ..... etc. etc.

We are a dictator nation and the govt. is a victim of this 'democarcy' notion.

As an example: Pakistani who start living in Europe or US feels that his freedom is restricted as compare to the freedom he enjoyed in Pakistan.

 

[Always Neutral]

Dear Asim you are right but in Pakistan people vote a lot.

1- Parlimentry government elections.
2- Provincial government elections.
3- Local bodies elections.
5- Elections for minorities.
6- American style Referendums.
7- Elections for prime minister.
8- Elections for President.
9- Elections in all govt. institutions.
10- Elections for various industrial associations
11- Elections for various bussiness associations.
12- Elections in Judiciary.
13- Elections in Press.
14- Elections in markets.
15- Elections of housing societies.

All above and many more such elections make Pakistan a dictator society.

Do you remember how cement association of Pakistan, made govt. to beg for bringing down the prices of cement to very fair international level.
Same goes with flour mill association. Rickshaw driver association, Gas station association, Milk producer association, Print media union, lawyers union ..... etc. etc.

We are a dictator nation and the govt. is a victim of this 'democarcy' notion.

As an example: Pakistani who start living in Europe or US feels that his freedom is restricted as compare to the freedom he enjoyed in Pakistan.

Finally someone who introspects and is not scared to say what he feels. Sorry Batman you are just about to bombarded from Canada from another Dimension for being unpatriotic.

Best Regards

Ps My Respect for you is one notch higher. Pakistan is a good nation but it must allow free and fair introspection from its own citizens

 

[haviZsultan]

Finally someone who introspects and is not scared to say what he feels. Sorry Batman you are just about to bombarded from Canada from another Dimension for being unpatriotic.

Best Regards

Ps My Respect for you is one notch higher. Pakistan is a good nation but it must allow free and fair introspection from its own citizens

Woah, Dimension mafia is about to strike batman! Please grow up!

Musharraf has freed up the media and the judiciary! Complain all you want!

 

[Always Neutral]

QUOTE[All above and many more such elections make Pakistan a dictator society.

Do you remember how cement association of Pakistan, made govt. to beg for bringing down the prices of cement to very fair international level.
Same goes with flour mill association. Rickshaw driver association, Gas station association, Milk producer association, Print media union, lawyers union ..... etc. etc.

We are a dictator nation and the govt. is a victim of this 'democarcy' notion.

As an example: Pakistani who start living in Europe or US feels that his freedom is restricted as compare to the freedom he enjoyed in Pakistan.]UQUOTE

Excuse me DIMENSION you are a GEM. Batman says like me that Pakistan is not a democracy but I get brick bats from you and he gets a bouquets of flowers. Double standards because I am not a muslim ?

 

[bhangra12345]

Dear Asim you are right but in Pakistan people vote a lot.

1- Parlimentry government elections.
2- Provincial government elections.
3- Local government elections.
5- Elections for minorities.
6- American style Referendums.
7- Elections for prime minister.
8- Elections for President.
9- Elections in all govt. institutions.
10- Elections for various industrial associations
11- Elections for various bussiness associations.
12- Elections in Judiciary.
13- Elections in Press.
14- Elections in markets.
15- Elections of housing societies.

6- what american style referendums? Are you talking about the cr*p election of Mushy getting 99.9% votes which were so comprehensively rigged that the amount of rigging would put any govt to shame to even name them?
8- elections for president, see above
9- what all govt. institutions? Does ISI have elections? Does army have elections? Do your bureacracy have elections? what govt. institutions are you talking about?
10 &11 - repetetion- which of them have been given the power by the constitution?
12- elections in judiciary? wtf are you talking about? What post in judiciary do the common people elect directly or indirectly?
13- which elections in press is recognised by your constitution? Give me that.
14- elections for market, does this matter?
15- elections of housing societies- are they mandated by the constitution?[/QUOTE]
Look simply giving some name and writing elections 100 times would not make it. Provide RELEVANT facts and then post your analysis or whatever.

No one is talking about whether the Karachi municipal board is elected or not? get it, we are not talking whether karachi/your nukkad/neigbouring market is a democracy or not, we are talking whether Pakistan is a democracy or not.
The talk is at the national level.

The talk is whether at the national level does your vote matter or not? Whether all the participants have been given a fair and equal footing? Do the rules get arbitrary changes to suit one participant? whether the elections were made in an environment free from any kind of intimidation and whether every voter had the equal oppurtunity to do it- this in short is fair and free elections, and elections do not make a democracy, elections are only a part of democracy.

All above and many more such elections make Pakistan a dictator society.

A society is never a dictator society. It is the individual who makes the govt as a dictator govt.

Do you remember how cement association of Pakistan, made govt. to beg for bringing down the prices of cement to very fair international level.
Same goes with flour mill association. Rickshaw driver association, Gas station association, Milk producer association, Print media union, lawyers union ..... etc. etc.

making a govt beg itself shows that the cement asso. sees itself above the govt, are you trying to show that rule of law does not exist in Pakistan or what? And what in the bloody hell does this show, except that Pakistan has not been able to break the cement cartels. What does this have to do with democracy?

We are a dictator nation and the govt. is a victim of this 'democarcy' notion.

As an example: Pakistani who start living in Europe or US feels that his freedom is restricted as compare to the freedom he enjoyed in Pakistan.

You have not grasped what individual freedom and a democracy means.

 

[bhangra12345]

Woah, Dimension mafia is about to strike batman! Please grow up!

Musharraf has freed up the media and the judiciary! Complain all you want!

Musharraf has freed up the judiciary?
AH!! what more gems can this person say, I shudder to even think.

 

[bhangra12345]

Excuse me DIMENSION you are a GEM. Batman says like me that Pakistan is not a democracy but I get brick bats from you and he gets a bouquets of flowers. Double standards because I am not a muslim ?

AN, I do not think you grasped the sarcasm in batman's post.

 

[bhangra12345]

Well all these European nations are responsible for setting up so many dictatorships for their own interests! Now they are moaning about them? While America screwed Congo by supporting an idiot UK ransacked India and Pakistan and left us to burn in our own conflicts... Every nation that they have ruled is now a a developing country and has been hurt by decades of war... now what kind purpose makes them say that Pakistan is a "dictatorship"? I dunno why Indians never manage to understand this! It is up to the people to decide their destiny and decide if their government is doing the right thing or not! That is what matters!... And most Pakistanis believe Pakistan is a democratic as it can be! Sometimes we have to stop people from taking certain actions as they might hurt the nation! Thus the action against these people!

A quote full of self pity and it elicits zero sympathies from me and infact lowers the person's respect in my eyes.
UK has done that, US has done that, alright? but what did Pakistan do?

for the bolded part
For a person who has been starved of food for a week, even grass will look like good food, if that is Pakistan's case......

Your being unable to understand that what the people say is what matters proves that you have no idea what a democracy is! And how are you doing better? Do you accept Kashmiri peoples wishes and if not do you even want or try to integrate them into India as loyal citizens? The same is true about the treatment of minorities in India!

treatment of minorities in india, a village imam's two sons, who did not have a single mentor or connections are playing in a eleven member team, for which half of indians will be ready to give their right arm for, and yes what you say about the treatment of minorities in india is correct.

Dope? Woah, you're talking like your condition is stable... are you having hallucinations? Yes he wanted Sharif to be pardoned and sent to Saudi! Infact thats why much action was'nt taken in court and he was allowed to go back on the premise that he would not return to Pakistan and would not have a hand in politics both of which he accepted when he was told in Pakistan but has broken both rules...

So you are somehow in the world, only and only the Saudi king wanted NS to get out of Pakistan and make NS a prisoner in a luxury room in Saudi... Yaa why isnt the Saudi king making you such a prisoner?

8 years? Are you trying to tell me that makes a difference if the people want him to rule!

No, it doesnt. But unfortunately your if condition validation is yet to be proved.

Yeah! It was a dishonour to us but it was'nt ordered by Musharraf! Infact it was against his wishes! GEO brought him on themselves afterwards and he told them that he did not know who had done it! Would GEO have brought him on if they thought he was responsible? So the truth is an idiot or a few or many idiots in the government can cause hell for us and finding out which idiot went on a rampage is extremely hard in India and Pakistan. The police are dogs and any idiot with power simply has to direct them to do an idiotic thing! Now please don't try to tell me that there are idiots only in Pakistan while there are none in the world or in your government! The BJP is responsible for the slaughter of so many people is a very large group of idiots! You should be happy that we don't have such a large groups of idiots in Pakistan and are having to make do with smaller groups of idiots and tiny groups that stand apart and don't support each other! Now in India its different, the idiots seem to have made a united front, you see... and weren't the BJP screaming recently to ban exports to Pakistan and Bangladesh for their "support to terrorists"?

When I put a revolver to your head, you might as well say "kashmir is an integral part of india".
but are you really agreeing with me?

Yes there are idiots everywhere, no doubt.

I must admit that's a hard one! Well in Pakistan we look at skill and ability rather than silly things such as succession rather than picking the first one in the line and giving him a position!

Have you started working anywhere? and do you know what a tenure means and what retirement age is?

I am sure the generals will be honoured for their services!

All the defence housing colonies are indications of this honour only and I need to remind you of the person who pays for all the things which Mushy does to extend his rule- Pakistani tax payer.

 

[bhangra12345]

We have never supported or installed Dictators in Britain. Africa India and Pakistan were jungles and small feudal states before the British came. Please travel India and Pakistan to see what beneficial work was also done like the legal laws, consititution, health, railways Britain left behind. We also left democracies in India and Pakistan.

I think you need to learn more history. The whole of european gdp(british + dutch+ french+ german + portuguese) will not match the gdp of India in 17th century and you talk of us as jungles? The small feudal states you talk about was each the size of britain.

The railways were not built for us, they were built so that you could take the wood, minerals and crops from India and transfer them to britain. Check out the route map of railways in india at 1947 and understand the routes which they go through.

health- where the average age was 24. literacy rate ~10, and where the whole british ww 2 was funded by starving 3 million bengalis to death, I should be grateful for all your "beneficial" work.

You did not leave democracies, you left two wounded nations and left off in a puff, packing all what you can. Read the history of partition, where pakistan became a reality in three months leaving no time for the non-violent exchanges of refugees and how millions died due to the emergency.

Dont expect any sympathies for the brutal rule we endured.

 

[Always Neutral]

Why would I want any sympathy for what my ancestors did ? Please however don't forget you are one country now thanks to the British influence otherwise you would have been 200 princely states who would have never united. Anyway we left India and Pakistan 60 years ago so i guess you have had enough time to set everything right. If British rule was all bad then how come Singapore, Australia, Hong Kong, Malaysia develop into such beautiful places.

 

[Marathaman]

Why would I want any sympathy for what my ancestors did ? Please however don't forget you are one country now thanks to the British influence otherwise you would have been 200 princely states who would have never united. Anyway we left India and Pakistan 60 years ago so i guess you have had enough time to set everything right. If British rule was all bad then how come Singapore, Australia, Hong Kong, Malaysia develop into such beautiful places.

Yeah....just shows the true extent of the mess you left behind.