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Why doesn't PN go for a small littoral submarine to complement the Azmat series of FAC?
Something like a 600-700 ton locally built submarine with four simple torpedo boats, would be effective for a good portion of Indian coastline including Mumbai.

PN already has the capacity to design and build such a midget submarine. The sub could even have a detachable UUV and mine laying capability. Does not need to have an effective AIP as its designed for relatively closer ranges, as a complement to the full sized SSKs.

Small submarines are some of the hardest to detect and leave even USN commanders awake at night (according to reports). Its ideal for the closer ranged Indian western coastline.
 
Why doesn't PN go for a small littoral submarine to complement the Azmat series of FAC?
Something like a 600-700 ton locally built submarine with four simple torpedo boats, would be effective for a good portion of Indian coastline including Mumbai.

PN already has the capacity to design and build such a midget submarine. The sub could even have a detachable UUV and mine laying capability. Does not need to have an effective AIP as its designed for relatively closer ranges, as a complement to the full sized SSKs.

Small submarines are some of the hardest to detect and leave even USN commanders awake at night (according to reports). Its ideal for the closer ranged Indian western coastline.
Apparently pak is developing a mini sub.
 
Midget submarines role in the naval warfare is limited primarily because of their size. A midget submarine is generally less than 150 ft. long, about 7 to 8 ft. in diameter, of around 100 – 130 DWT displacement and is capable of carrying about 15 -20 sailors.

Because of the lack of space for fuel, air & water and food for the crew; midget submarine range & duration is severely limited. While the midgets can dive down to 100 meters; understand average under water duration of a midget sub is limited to 10 -12 hours only. Thus they can't travel too far on their own and need a mother ship / support vessel to extend the range.

Nevertheless, since sonar returns are cluttered in shallow water, midget subs can be very useful for sneaking into harbours, laying mines and inserting commandos on beaches. Iran has about 21 midget submarines but then most of her sea coast lays in the narrow Persian Gulf where short range of midgets is not an impediment. In Pakistan’ case, where most of the coast line opens on to the Indian Ocean, a handful of midget submarines should be more than enough.

However, I have across two modern technologies that are being developed for the deep ocean submersibles. One being the remote control technology and other an AIP system based on liquid oxygen. These developments may be for the scientific research but nothing stops one from installing the same on a midget submarine. Since there would be no crew, all the space could be used for more fuel and liquid oxygen considerably increasing the range and under water duration.

Obviously, a torpedo firing remotely operated midget sub barely larger than a large whale, lying in wait 200 miles off shore to ambush enemy warships would be a deadly foe. A fleet of 6 such advanced remotely operated midgets with AIP in the Pakistan Navy arsenal would present a formidable challenge to anyone attacking Pakistan from the sea.
 
Midget submarines role in the naval warfare is limited primarily because of their size. A midget submarine is generally less than 150 ft. long, about 7 to 8 ft. in diameter, of around 100 – 130 DWT displacement and is capable of carrying about 15 -20 sailors.

Because of the lack of space for fuel, air & water and food for the crew; midget submarine range & duration is severely limited. While the midgets can dive down to 100 meters; understand average under water duration of a midget sub is limited to 10 -12 hours only. Thus they can't travel too far on their own and need a mother ship / support vessel to extend the range.

Nevertheless, since sonar returns are cluttered in shallow water, midget subs can be very useful for sneaking into harbours, laying mines and inserting commandos on beaches. Iran has about 21 midget submarines but then most of her sea coast lays in the narrow Persian Gulf where short range of midgets is not an impediment. In Pakistan’ case, where most of the coast line opens on to the Indian Ocean, a handful of midget submarines should be more than enough.

However, I have across two modern technologies that are being developed for the deep ocean submersibles. One being the remote control technology and other an AIP system based on liquid oxygen. These developments may be for the scientific research but nothing stops one from installing the same on a midget submarine. Since there would be no crew, all the space could be used for more fuel and liquid oxygen considerably increasing the range and under water duration.

Obviously, a torpedo firing remotely operated midget sub barely larger than a large whale, lying in wait 200 miles off shore to ambush enemy warships would be a deadly foe. A fleet of 6 such advanced remotely operated midgets with AIP in the Pakistan Navy arsenal would present a formidable challenge to anyone attacking Pakistan from the sea.

Some brilliant ideas and thoughts. Thanks for sharing your refreshingly out of the box thinking. Here is what I think -
The PN is focused on area denial and anti access but also wants to provide a punch. The success of the Azmat class as a platform is in this - it can not only protect the EEZ but also punch out against the nearby IN ports and bases.

A small midget submarine - not too small - about 600-700 tons would be able to do the same underwater, while saving valuable foreign exchange and could even prove to be an export like the JF-17.

Submarine technology has evolved - a midget submarine can have as little as 4 crew members! One even sees this now in surface ships like the Azmat where far fewer crew is needed than yester yars. It would be an ideal KISS project like the JF-17 (keep it simple st...) not trying to make a world beater but a good enough capability.

With a crew of only 4 and a simple liquid oxygen AIP like you suggested, such a vessel would have excellent range and ability to sustain operations, despite being so small.

It could be armed with simple, port reloadable only torpedo tubes (say 4)
A simple sonar.
A few sea mines (say 2-4)

Sitting near an Indian port (such as near Mumbai), it would be nearly impossible to detect because of its small size. Magnetic anomaly detectors won't find it, nor sonars which would simply equate it to a large rock.

And an idea I had in mind but didn't share before, but am encouraged to by your excellent post - a detachable unmanned attack subsurface vessel.

This would be a much smaller ship with two torpedoes, that will be used as a one way trip weapon, sent to an area (such as an Indian port) on a hunter killer operation. It would basically be a giant torpedo with a small sonar, that will go active at a designated time, and fire away its two torpedoes at anything that it finds moving. If it finds nothing it will go passive and sit and wait until something shows up. This would be for the kind of suicide mission we wouldn't want to send the manned submarines to.
 
Midget submarines role in the naval warfare is limited primarily because of their size. A midget submarine is generally less than 150 ft. long, about 7 to 8 ft. in diameter, of around 100 – 130 DWT displacement and is capable of carrying about 15 -20 sailors.

Because of the lack of space for fuel, air & water and food for the crew; midget submarine range & duration is severely limited. While the midgets can dive down to 100 meters; understand average under water duration of a midget sub is limited to 10 -12 hours only. Thus they can't travel too far on their own and need a mother ship / support vessel to extend the range.

Nevertheless, since sonar returns are cluttered in shallow water, midget subs can be very useful for sneaking into harbours, laying mines and inserting commandos on beaches. Iran has about 21 midget submarines but then most of her sea coast lays in the narrow Persian Gulf where short range of midgets is not an impediment. In Pakistan’ case, where most of the coast line opens on to the Indian Ocean, a handful of midget submarines should be more than enough.

However, I have across two modern technologies that are being developed for the deep ocean submersibles. One being the remote control technology and other an AIP system based on liquid oxygen. These developments may be for the scientific research but nothing stops one from installing the same on a midget submarine. Since there would be no crew, all the space could be used for more fuel and liquid oxygen considerably increasing the range and under water duration.

Obviously, a torpedo firing remotely operated midget sub barely larger than a large whale, lying in wait 200 miles off shore to ambush enemy warships would be a deadly foe. A fleet of 6 such advanced remotely operated midgets with AIP in the Pakistan Navy arsenal would present a formidable challenge to anyone attacking Pakistan from the sea.

No advanced missiles will ever be entrusted to underwater drones because of the ease with which they can be captured if detected. At least one human needs to be there to detonate manually in the worst case. That said, the idea has merit for surveillance, mine laying, or firing low tech torpedos. If the drone is cheap enough, it can be ordered to self-destruct in the vicinity of enemy vessels.
 
Why doesn't PN go for a small littoral submarine to complement the Azmat series of FAC?
Something like a 600-700 ton locally built submarine with four simple torpedo boats, would be effective for a good portion of Indian coastline including Mumbai.

PN already has the capacity to design and build such a midget submarine. The sub could even have a detachable UUV and mine laying capability. Does not need to have an effective AIP as its designed for relatively closer ranges, as a complement to the full sized SSKs.

Small submarines are some of the hardest to detect and leave even USN commanders awake at night (according to reports). Its ideal for the closer ranged Indian western coastline.

Hon Sir,

Your strategy has merit, but the size you are suggesting is rather large. Pakistan's Daphne subs were of 860 DWT which were normal submarines certainly not classified as ‘Midgets’.

To the best of my understanding ‘Midgets’ are the subs of less than 200 tons displacement.
 
Hon Sir,

Your strategy has merit, but the size you are suggesting is rather large. Pakistan's Daphne subs were of 860 DWT which were normal submarines certainly not classified as ‘Midgets’.

To the best of my understanding ‘Midgets’ are the subs of less than 200 tons displacement.

Thanks Niaz, you are right. Daphne surfaced is 860 tons. A 600 ton vessel would only be marginally smaller.
 
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Expect a nuclear missile in the next 36 hours. #Pakistan

Pak Navy has already issued its longest NOTAM warning. Could be an upgraded Shaheen or Ababeel MIRV. Inshallah it will be a success.
وَمَا تَوْفِيقِي إِلَّا بِاللَّهِ ۚ عَلَيْهِ تَوَكَّلْتُ وَإِلَيْهِ أُنِيب https://t.co/a4GW7BRZmK
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Breaking news: The PLAN Railgun is here and it is mounted on a ship

After months of speculation on the China Internet, the first clear picture of PLAN's latest arsenal is finally here. The China Navy's experimental railgun is mounted on Type 072III-class landing ship 海洋山 / Haiyang Shan 936 as the test platform and speculated to enter service with the next Type055 DDG variant.

The question is - can a little LST generate enough megajoules of energy to provide this experimental railgun a realistic platform. Perhaps a larger and more powerful platform is needed for the next stage of development. One thing is certain, they have a long-term plan and they are investing R&D resources to reach it.

Join our on-going discussion on this and other latest China related developments at our forum (here)

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