Saudi Arabia: Turkey the first guest of honor at the Armed Forces Exhibition "AFD 2018"

[Amun]

Relax,dont be angry,next year they will make your country guest of honor so you can show your products.

That is not the issue..!!
But....it’s a good one indeed

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Something is strange with all the missiles you have mentioned.. their range is MTCR compliant.. not one is over 300km.. any other reason?

What else do you expect???? For the real strategic staffs, which stipulates the doctrine "if x goes down the world will follow her", what is Pak for????? Most of the folks grow up, pick up a profession, marry, have kids and then grand kids. Pak started with grand kids, and now going back!!!!!

 

[MMM-E]

Something is strange with all the missiles you have mentioned.. their range is MTCR compliant.. not one is over 300km.. any other reason?

A ) 280 km KHAN Tactical Ballistic Missile ( export version ) ... 1.000+ km BORA Ballistic Missile

B ) 250+ SOM Cruise Missile with French TRI-40 Engine .... btw Turkish engineers modified French TRI-40 engine to gain more thrust power. SOM with modified TRI-40 engine reached 800km range in trials in 2014

and Turkey is working on 500+km SOM Cruise Missile with indigenous Engine ....
KALE AERO already has developed Kale-3500 turbojet engine for SOM and ATMACA Missiles



also TURKEY is working on 1.000km GEZGIN land and naval based Cruise Missile

C ) 220+km ATMACA Anti Ship Missile has more longer range than 124 km American HARPOON and 180 km French EXOCET Anti Ship Missiles

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[Saif al-Arab]

Germany is against this cooperation.

http://www.milliyet.com.tr/firtina-satisina-alman-celmesi-gundem-2560973/

There won't be such bull**** with the likes of China, Russia, Ukraine (explains the close and growing defense with all 3) and the US. France and the UK are reliable partners as well.

Will Turkey (Erdogan) jeopardize military and economic ties with Germany and offer KSA what others are willing to offer? I don't think so, so the cooperation is likely to be small but I might be wrong here. What interests does Turkey (Erdogan) have in an even stronger and more influential KSA? Erdogan is a big fan of the Qatari regime, MB fanatics in Egypt and has growing ties with the Farsi Mullah terrorist regime that rules Iran. Recently he was caught evading sanctions labelled at the Farsi Mullah terrorist regime.

Just saying.

That’s sure....as Turkey is the only Islamic country in NATO.
and the only Islamic country that supported from the west technically.....there are other acceptable products in countries like Pakestan , Egypt, UAE and Iran.



In times of great turmoils and radical changes in a specific regions or societies ...... changing in alliance is a common thing..
Just read about WWI and Balkan war....you will be astonished.
Or just look beside you (Vietnam and USA)

Don't forget KSA in that list, bro.

BTW this is likely seen as a gesture of friendliness or courtesy for Erdogan. I would not give it too much significance. KSA does not look at Turkey as an enemy or the Turkish people (nor do we have any direct conflicts) but there are IMO significant differences on a few fields. I mentioned two of them earlier in this post. Until those are not resolved, I cannot see a truly prospering and mutually beneficial partnership that is based on trust.

KSA is not a potential large market for Turkish products either. We can buy the best of the best that can be bought with money and we have big ambitions ourselves to become self-reliant and an exporter ourselves down the line. Hence the Saudi Arabia Vision 2030 and other projects and the recent establishment/proclamation of almost 100 new military factories in KSA intended for local production and further industrialization (an ongoing project).

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/saud...than-90-factories-for-military-manufa.529939/

Qatar (Erdogan's best friend in the region) is a completely other story for instance. They will never have a serious indigenous defense industry due to their population (less than 330.000 natives).

An example of what I mean here (this is just the beginning);

Anyway despite what I wrote, I am hoping for the best in this regard but I don't expect anything groundbreaking here and now or in the immediate future as long as Erdogan is around.

 

[Amun]

@Saif al-Arab Sure....KSA has a potential Defence industry..... specially in aviation.

Btw welcome back..

 

[Saif al-Arab]

@Saif al-Arab Sure....KSA has a potential Defence industry..... specially in aviation.

Btw welcome back..

Been here for quite some time bro. My break was not this long but I will have to take a longer break soon again due to big projects coming up in my personal life and work.

I tagged you a few times recently in news related to Egypt, if you remember.

When it comes to most Arab countries, we all have a big potential. Our governments just need to fulfill it by creating the right environment. KSA under MbS is trying to do that very ambitiously and I think that we will succeed.

What I dream about is a Pan-Arab military defense sector where all (or at least most) Arab countries will work together. Imagine for a second the potential if such a thing could be arranged? Money, influence, human capital, political influence etc. Nothing would lack IMO. It could potentially become some "next level" stuff.

Well, I am dreaming (for now). Back to reality.

However we (the young generation) must think like this which many of us do already. It's the only way forward. Look at Europe (EU) or the West. They all work together mostly on almost all fronts despite their parents generations and grandparents generation being involved in WW1 and WW2 that killed 50 million Europeans (almost) combined. Our conflicts and rivalries are nothing in comparison and we are at our worst if not close to it currently.

Anyway take care bro and make your country proud!

 

[MMM-E]

We can buy the best of the best that can be bought with money

then go to pay $1 billion for a trash LCS Warship ...... per unite $1 billion .. The US is so happy to sell a trash LCS Warship for $1 billion ...... total $6 billion for 4 American LCS Warships+Missiles+training

on the other hand Turkey can produce 10 superior MILGEM-I class stealth Frigates for $6 billion ... even with 16 x Turkish 220km ATMACA Anti ship Missiles , instead of 8 x American 124 km HARPOON Anti ship Missiles

S Arabia can not develop even ammunition for Fighter Jets and still talking about 2030 vision

The US never will give technology transfer to S Arabia .... only to sell $350 billion weapons to S Arabia ... nothing else

btw if Erdogan is a big fan of the Qatari regime ...... then Royal Saudi Familiy is a big fan of Israel who killed Muslim Arabs including childs and women in Palestine day and night

Turkey has no problem with S Arabia , even when President OBAMA supported Iran against S Arabia , Turkey supported S Arabia against Iran

is Qatar worse than Israel ?

I dont want to say any thing about criminal murderer dictator SISI in Egypt
( btw Egypt also can not develop even anti Tank Missile .... only buy, buy and buy )

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

What I dream about is a Pan-Arab military defense sector where all (or at least most) Arab countries will work together.

We TURKS are dreaming about Pan-Islamic military defense sector where all (or at least most) Islamic countries will work together...( Turkey , Pakistan , S Arabia , Qatar , Egypt , Uae , Indonesia , Maleysia , Azerbaijan , Kazakhstan ,Algeria and many more )

It will be nightmare for The US,Uk,France,Germany and their spoiled boy Israel

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[Saif al-Arab]

then go to pay $1 billion for a trash LCS Warship ...... per unite $1 billion .. The US is so happy to sell a trash LCS Warship for $1 billion ...... total $6 billion for 4 American LCS Warships+Missiles+training

on the other hand Turkey can produce 10 superior MILGEM-I class stealth Frigates for $6 billion ... even with 16 x Turkish 220km ATMACA Anti ship Missiles , instead of 8 x American 124 km HARPOON Anti ship Missiles

S Arabia can not develop even ammunition for Fighter Jets and still talking about 2030 vision

The US never will give technology transfer to S Arabia .... only to sell $350 billion weapons to S Arabia ... nothing else

btw if Erdogan is a big fan of the Qatari regime ...... then Royal Saudi Familiy is a big fan of Israel who killed Muslim Arabs including childs and women in Palestine day and night

Turkey has no problem with S Arabia , even when President OBAMA supported Iran against S Arabia , Turkey supported S Arabia against Iran

is Qatar worse than Israel ?

I dont want to say any thing about criminal murderer dictator SISI in Egypt
( btw Egypt also can not develop even anti Tank Missile .... only buy, buy and buy )

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,



We TURKS are dreaming about Pan-Islamic military defense sector where all (or at least most) Islamic countries will work together...( Turkey , Pakistan , S Arabia , Qatar , Egypt , Uae , Indonesia , Maleysia , Azerbaijan , Kazakhstan ,Algeria and many more )

It will be nightmare for The US,Uk,France,Germany and their spoiled boy Israel

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[The SC]

A ) 280 km KHAN Tactical Ballistic Missile ( export version ) ... 1.000+ km BORA Ballistic Missile

B ) 250+ SOM Cruise Missile with French TRI-40 Engine .... btw Turkish engineers modified French TRI-40 engine to gain more thrust power. SOM with modified TRI-40 engine reached 800km range in trials in 2014

and Turkey is working on 500+km SOM Cruise Missile with indigenous Engine ....
KALE AERO already has developed Kale-3500 turbojet engine for SOM and ATMACA Missiles



also TURKEY is working on 1.000km GEZGIN land and naval based Cruise Missile

C ) 220+km ATMACA Anti Ship Missile has more longer range than 124 km American HARPOON and 180 km French EXOCET Anti Ship Missiles

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Good to hear..I was wondering..

then go to pay $1 billion for a trash LCS Warship ...... per unite $1 billion .. The US is so happy to sell a trash LCS Warship for $1 billion ...... total $6 billion for 4 American LCS Warships+Missiles+training

on the other hand Turkey can produce 10 superior MILGEM-I class stealth Frigates for $6 billion ... even with 16 x Turkish 220km ATMACA Anti ship Missiles , instead of 8 x American 124 km HARPOON Anti ship Missiles

S Arabia can not develop even ammunition for Fighter Jets and still talking about 2030 vision

The US never will give technology transfer to S Arabia .... only to sell $350 billion weapons to S Arabia ... nothing else

btw if Erdogan is a big fan of the Qatari regime ...... then Royal Saudi Familiy is a big fan of Israel who killed Muslim Arabs including childs and women in Palestine day and night

Turkey has no problem with S Arabia , even when President OBAMA supported Iran against S Arabia , Turkey supported S Arabia against Iran

is Qatar worse than Israel ?

I dont want to say any thing about criminal murderer dictator SISI in Egypt
( btw Egypt also can not develop even anti Tank Missile .... only buy, buy and buy )

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,



We TURKS are dreaming about Pan-Islamic military defense sector where all (or at least most) Islamic countries will work together...( Turkey , Pakistan , S Arabia , Qatar , Egypt , Uae , Indonesia , Maleysia , Azerbaijan , Kazakhstan ,Algeria and many more )

It will be nightmare for The US,Uk,France,Germany and their spoiled boy Israel

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

How do you know the Saudi modified LCS are trash.. the US is operating a lesser version.. Do you really believe that US weapons are trash, while Turkey's current weapons are mostly made in the US or under licence in Turkey?

 

[MMM-E]

How do you know the Saudi modified LCS are trash.. the US is operating a lesser version.. Do you really believe that US weapons are trash, while Turkey's current weapons are mostly made in the US or under licence in Turkey?

Problem is that 4 trash LCS with a huge price ( total of $6 billion 4 LCS+Missiles+training ) without TOT

Saudi Arabia is a cow being milked by the US

LCS is trash with a $1 billion price .... Turkish MILGEM-I class stealth Frigate costs $350 million for Turkish Navy ... $500 million for export ..btw Turkish MILGEM-I class stealth Frigate also has high quality NATO standart

Saudi modified LCS will be armed with 8 x 124 km HARPOON Anti ship Missiles and 64 x 50 km ESSM Air Defense Missiles with 250km Radar

Turkish MILGEM-I class stealth Frigate will be armed with 16 x 220 km ATMACA Anti ship Missiles and 64 x 50 km ESSM Air Defense Missiles with 250km Radar

in a potential war , Turkish MILGEM-I class stealth Frigate can engage on Saudi modified LCS from 150-200 km away with Turkish 220 km ATMACA Anti ship Missiles .. but Saudi modified LCS can not do it

S Arabia buys 1 LCS for $1 billion ..... on the other hand Turkey produces 3 superior MILGEM-I class stealth Frigates for $1 billion

also Turkey has its own ATMACA Anti ship Missile to produce even hundreds of units
but S Arabia buys only 46 HARPOON Anti ship Missiles for 4 LCSs

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

and Saudi Arabia has cancelled an arms deal with Turkey involving 4 MILGEM Warships worth $2 billion

The deal was reportedly cancelled in the wake of Saudi’s $110 billion arms deal with the US


on the other hand Turkey spent $60 billion for 553 military projects to creat its own Defense Industry

even Turkey buys 100 F35A for $10 billion from the US but the 10 Turkish Companies supported the production of F-35 Jet / F135 Engine and F-35 industrial opportunities for Turkish companies are expected to reach $12 billion

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[The SC]

Problem is that 4 trash LCS with a huge price ( total of $6 billion 4 LCS+Missiles+training ) without TOT

Saudi Arabia is a cow being milked by the US

LCS is trash with a $1 billion price .... Turkish MILGEM-I class stealth Frigate costs $350 million for Turkish Navy ... $500 million for export ..btw Turkish MILGEM-I class stealth Frigate also has high quality NATO standart

Saudi modified LCS will be armed with 8 x 124 km HARPOON Anti ship Missiles and 64 x 50 km ESSM Air Defense Missiles with 250km Radar

Turkish MILGEM-I class stealth Frigate will be armed with 16 x 220 km ATMACA Anti ship Missiles and 64 x 50 km ESSM Air Defense Missiles with 250km Radar

in a potential war , Turkish MILGEM-I class stealth Frigate can engage on Saudi modified LCS from 200+ km away with Turkish 220 km ATMACA Anti ship Missiles .. but Saudi modified LCS can not do it

S Arabia buys 1 LCS for $1 billion ..... on the other hand Turkey produces 3 superior MILGEM-I class stealth Frigates for $1 billion

also Turkey has its own ATMACA Anti ship Missile to produce even hundreds of units
but S Arabia buys only 46 HARPOON Anti ship Missiles for 4 LCSs

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

and Saudi Arabia has cancelled an arms deal with Turkey involving 4 MILGEM Warships worth $2 billion

The deal was reportedly cancelled in the wake of Saudi’s $110 billion arms deal with the US


on the other hand Turkey spent $60 billion for 553 military projects to creat its own Defense Industry

even Turkey buys 100 F35A for $10 billion from the US but the 10 Turkish Companies supported the production of F-35 Jet / F135 Engine and F-35 industrial opportunities for Turkish companies are expected to reach $12 billion

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Who told you there is no TOT? This is a new deal part of the $110 billion deal which complies to the new Saudi vision 2030 that says ToT is a must requirement in any new deal..

 

[MMM-E]

Who told you there is no TOT? This is a new deal part of the $110 billion deal which complies to the new Saudi vision 2030 that says ToT is a must requirement in any new deal..

if there is TOT then its ok .... but only logistics and training

The US never gives technology transfer to S Arabia or even NATO Member Turkey

and what about it ?

WASHINGTON, Oct. 20, 2015 - The State Department has made a determination approving a possible Foreign Military Sale to the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia for Multi-Mission Surface Combatant (MMSC) Ships and associated equipment, parts and logistical support for an estimated cost of $11.25 billion

http://www.dsca.mil/major-arms-sales/kingdom-saudi-arabia-multi-mission-surface-combatant-mmsc-ships


and by 2017 Saudis to Make $6 Billion deal for Lockheed's Littoral Ships ( $5+ billion difference )

I am saying again Saudi Arabia is a cow being milked by the US

 

[The SC]

if there is TOT then its ok .... but only logistics and training

The US never gives technology transfer to S Arabia or even NATO Member Turkey

and what about it ?

WASHINGTON, Oct. 20, 2015 - The State Department has made a determination approving a possible Foreign Military Sale to the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia for Multi-Mission Surface Combatant (MMSC) Ships and associated equipment, parts and logistical support for an estimated cost of $11.25 billion

http://www.dsca.mil/major-arms-sales/kingdom-saudi-arabia-multi-mission-surface-combatant-mmsc-ships


and by 2017 Saudis to Make $6 Billion deal for Lockheed's Littoral Ships ( $5+ billion difference )

I am saying again Saudi Arabia is a cow being milked by the US

You are entitled to your opinion.. however, in the old deal Saudis were taking about Aegis and SM-6..and since that is not technically feasible.. the deal price has changed to half of the original.. in this deal there are also upgrades to the port infrastructure that will host the ships on top of a lot of weapons, support, training and maintenance for a long period of time.. some ToT is a requirement.. not a choice.. otherwise and like what the Saudi ambassador to the US just said a month or so ago in a press conference.. that Saudi Arabia has other choices if there is no ToT for the weapon systems it has bought recently.. it was a message to the US congress circulating rumours about possible opposition to some weapons systems and ToT..
It is expensive for sure.. but no one knows the details of the specs or the ToT involved or anything else about the tailor made US ships for Saudi Arabia.. A tailor made suite is always much more expansive than ready to buy suites..

 

[MMM-E]

in the old deal Saudis were taking about Aegis and SM-6..and since that is not technically feasible.

no any thing about Aegis and SM-6 in the details

http://www.dsca.mil/major-arms-sales/kingdom-saudi-arabia-multi-mission-surface-combatant-mmsc-ships


only 4 LCS Warships
5 COMBATSS-21 Combat Management Systems
532 RIM-162 Evolved Sea Sparrow Missiles (ESSM)
48 RGM-84 Harpoon Block II Missiles
188 RIM 116C Block II Rolling Airframe Missiles

also to provide overarching program office support , contractor engineering, technical and logistics support for $4.3 billion

The total estimated cost is $11.25 billion in the old deal .... and The total estimated cost is $6 billion in the new deal by 2017 .... still its very expensive for 4 LCS

S Arabia can buy 8 MILGEM-I class stealth Frigates and some technology from Turkey for $6-7 billion

also S Arabia in talks with TAI to buy ANKA Drones
and the official also pointed out the ongoing negotiations between the two parties on the possibility of technology transfer to S Arabia

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[The SC]

no any thing about Aegis and SM-6 in the details

http://www.dsca.mil/major-arms-sales/kingdom-saudi-arabia-multi-mission-surface-combatant-mmsc-ships


only 4 LCS Warships
5 COMBATSS-21 Combat Management Systems
532 RIM-162 Evolved Sea Sparrow Missiles (ESSM)
48 RGM-84 Harpoon Block II Missiles
188 RIM 116C Block II Rolling Airframe Missiles

also to provide overarching program office support , contractor engineering, technical and logistics support for $4.3 billion

The total estimated cost is $11.25 billion in the old deal .... and The total estimated cost is $6 billion in the new deal by 2017 .... still its very expensive for 4 LCS

S Arabia can buy 8 MILGEM-I class stealth Frigates and some technology from Turkey for $6-7 billion

also S Arabia in talks with TAI to buy ANKA Drones
and the official also pointed out the ongoing negotiations between the two parties on the possibility of technology transfer to S Arabia

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

There was talk about AEGIS and SM-6.. obviously you are not aware of why the original deal did not get through..
Have you heard the latest news about Germany stopping a deal between KSA and Turkey concerning the "Fertina".. because the engine is German!?
KSA buys what it sees fits its requirements.. you have to think quality..and not always quantity..